EClassic 2400 problem

[wayno12]

Hello, I purchased a Central Boiler EClassic 2400 in October of 2010.  Outside of some little issues, I now have what I think is a bigger problem.  Over the last couple days, I noticed the stove did not want to go into the high burn stage and stay there.  It would hit 800 to 850 degrees then come down to 650.  It keeps doing this cycle, and will not go into the 1000+ degree stage.  As I always do, I stirred the coals and made sure the coals were dropping down into the combustion chamber.  Yesterday, I was sitting in the house and all of a sudden, there was a huge puff of smoke around the boiler.  I ran out thinking something was wrong, but nothing obvious caught my eye.  I opened the box that houses the solenoids, and everything is covered in a rust colored dust.  Have any of you had a similar problem or can give me some ideas what to do.  My dealer was not sure what the problem is. 

I am going to try to attach some pictures of the box with the dust.  I Uploaded pics to a album, but I am not sure if they are attached.  I could email them I that would help you.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[doctorb]

Your unit sounds plugged somewhere along the air flow intakes.  So this could be:

1.  Fan malfunction
2.  Solenoid malfunction
3.  Clogged airholes / solenoid
4.  Reaction chamber / Chimney blockage

After checking the easy stuff, I would start the fire with the door open, checking the airflow from the airholes.  the fan should kick on and you should see increased coal formation close to the airholes.  You should be able to hear the inflow of air and the increasing blow-torch of gasification.  If you don't, then the airholes are blocked or no air is getting to them because of fan or solenoid malfunction or blockage.  You may have to pull a solenoid at the back - on the 2300's it's the upper left solenoid - to check for blockage.

The dust at the back probably occured from ignition of smoke, a sort of flame up, that occurs when the air can't flow through the firebox and down into the reaction chamber.  this would increase the pressure within the firebox and send smoke retrograde - back toward the solenoids - creating this soot / dust coating.

I don't push coals down into the RC.  the smoke is supposed to go there, not the coal bed.

Let us know how the investigation proceeds.

[wayno12]

Pic

[wayno12]

Thanks doctorb for looking at this.  Here's what I know so far.

1.  The fan seems to be turning fine and operating at normal speed
2.  I can hear the solenoids open, first at 550 degrees I hear a click, and then at 750 degrees I hear another click.  In the posted pic, both solenoids are open and temp showed to be about 875 degrees.
3.  I thought about the clogged air holes also, but I used a wire with a small hook bent on the end about a week ago to clean the little holes out.  Some stuff did come out, but it didn't seem excessive.  That was the 3rd time I cleaned the air holes this winter since firing it up for the first time.  Do you know of an easier way to clean them than using a wire.  Central Boiler really dropped the ball in this area.  You would think they would have designed removable panels where the holes are so you could just remove the panel, wipe it out and then put the panel back in.
4.  I don't believe the reaction champer is blocked only because last Saturday, (3 days ago), I cleaned the ash out as I do weekly.  I had unobstructed view from firebox into the reaction chamber.  While cleaning, I also took the access door on the back off that allows you access to the channels coming up from the reaction chamber and pulled out all the ash that had built up at the bottom of the chimney (another area Central boiler dropped the ball on.  They should have put an access door on each side that you could push or pull the ash straight through.).  I then took the access cover off the "T" at the bottom of the chimney and pulled out the ash laying in there.  Hope this additional info helps.  Thanks again for the first reply

[doctorb]

I scrape the airholes on my 2300 once a day.  The best way to clean them is to start a hot, but small fire in the firebox and leave the firebox door open.  push in the switch for the door with something to make the stove think the door is shut.  The heat created in the coals near the air hole openings is great, and liquifies most stuff that could be traped in the air channels. 

So my first inclination, given this info, is that you have an air channel blockage and the fire is air starved.  Try burning a small fire with the door open. this is a good check of airflow and of gasification.

[thecfarm]

Listen to the Doctor. He knows how to fix people and EClassics.  ;D  Lots of posts on how to maintain and clean it.

[wayno12]

Update:  After 7 months of complaining about a faulty temperature readout on my boiler, last Friday I called the dealer and told them I was tired of being sent bits and pieces to fix the problem myself.  I said it was under warranty and I wanted it fixed.  By chance, they called me yesterday and said they were coming out to check the boiler.  I figured they could look at the boiler for the above problem as well.  They said my firebox looked exceptionally clean and the air holes did not appear to be plugged at all.  We took my torch, one you would use for burning weeds etc, and heated up the inside of the firebox around the air holes hoping to melt down any creosote inside the air channels that might be plugging up the air flow.  We did get some small flames which you could see through the air holes so obviously there was some buildup in there that didn't come out when I cleaned them with a wire.  After heating the air holes and cleaning the creosote out of the solenoid tube, we put a shop vac hose up the the solenoid tube and blew air through.  A big cloud of red dust filled the firebox.  We put everything back together and I am anxious to see how it will burn.  I didn't fire it back up yesterday because since I am using it right now to only heat my domestic hot water and the swimming pool, the pool was at 90 degrees so I just let the fire stay out.  I'll keep you posted once I fire it back up.  Thanks for the info.  You were right on the money!

PS:  My temp readout on the boiler which I showed was 10 degrees off on kick in and 15 degrees off of kickoff my be fixed also.  They went into the menu and the Fire Star control panel lets them adjust the temp readout 10 degrees either way.  Hopefully it is now a little closer!

[Dean186]

PS:  My temp readout on the boiler which I showed was 10 degrees off on kick in and 15 degrees off of kickoff my be fixed also.  They went into the menu and the Fire Star control panel lets them adjust the temp readout 10 degrees either way.  Hopefully it is now a little closer!

This is certainly an interesting situation you have with the dust.  The inside of my solonoid box has always been clean after two years of use.  I noticed, from the photo,  the dust is on the outside of the fan cage, hmmm.  Keep us posted.

I would like to know more about the temperature readout calibration being changed in the menu.  Did you happen to notice how they did this?  I assume it was one of the "for factory only" menu options.

[wayno12]

Dean, thanks for looking into this.  I still don't think the problem as far as the airflow is fixed.  I couldn't get stove to burn over 940 degrees when I was watching it this morning.  I had a very nice bed of coals, some nicely chared chunks of wood, and some newly added pieces of very dry wood.  I'm really baffled by this!  Can someone tell me, am I supposed to keep all coals away from the slot in the bottom of the firebox?  It sounds like I am, as doctorb said that slot is only for the smoke to escape it where it is then burned in the reaction chamber.  I will try to take some pictures of the inside of my firebox tonight and post them.  Can someone give me some suggestions on how you "mound" or shape you coal bed around the slot.  I am 7 months into this and shouldn't be asking such stupid questions, but maybe there is a better way.  Then again, maybe I am babysitting this thing too much!

Also Dean, I believe you are right on the temp setting as far as it being a factory setting.  My temp still isn't "right", but it's closer than it was.  Dealer told me if they replaced the control panel and sent mine back to Central Boiler and they found it to be 10 degrees or less off, that I'd be paying for the new one.  I think it's close enough to work.  I still say it was off minimum of 13 degrees when the dealer came over because his meat thermometer showed it was 3 degrees off after the adjustment and my thermometer showed 4.  I hate to be a jerk and start splitting hairs.

[wayno12]

I should mention, the dealer told me the "dust blowout" happened when a buildup of gas from the smoldering fire ignited and the pressure had to go somewhere.  That was the path of least resistance.  But I can't believe I am the only one who has had a buildup of gas in the stove.  Wouldn't this be a natural, everyday occurance?

[Dean186]

I often find myself, after two years of use, of asking newbie question on how to best operate the stove.

First:  You are likely to get different answers from experienced gasification stove operatores about the coal bed and most likely all the answers are correct.  One thing that we most likely would agree on is: the coal bed is an important part of how the stove performs.

Here are some of my thoughts on the coal bed and your reaction chamber temperature.

I see the reaction temperature fluctuate on our stove during the burn cycle and I relate it to the wood or possibly the air flow changing as wood drops down and burns away over the grate. 

A reaction chamber temperature of 940 degrees is good IMO - so yes, stop baby setting it.   ;)   A reaction chamber temperature range for a good burn on our stove is between 900 and 1200 degrees and actually anything above 750 degrees is good.  I do sometimes get readings between 1200 and 1500 degrees, but everything has to be just right, and I have yet to figure out exactly what caused it.   ;D 

I like to place large coals over the grate and seldoom keep it cleared.  I do try to keep the ash from clogging the grate but not the coals.  I often just refill the fire box when the wood is still covering the grate and pay no attention to the grate if it has been burning well.

Dean

[Dean186]

I should mention, the dealer told me the "dust blowout" happened when a buildup of gas from the smoldering fire ignited and the pressure had to go somewhere.  That was the path of least resistance.  But I can't believe I am the only one who has had a buildup of gas in the stove.  Wouldn't this be a natural, everyday occurance?

That certainly makes sense, but I have not seen it on our stove.  It would sound like the grate must have been really plugged up.  I have seen it build up enough that I would hear a sound and a big puff would come out the stove pipe, but never back into my pressurized soloniod box.

[wayno12]

You make some really good points.  Do you ever take the larger coals out and clean out the fine ash from the bottom of the firebox or just rake the ash to the center so it falls down through the slot in the bottom?  I cleaned my fine ash out about 2 times per month. then dumped the larger coals back in.  I notice that where I spinkle the Ashtrol on the inside of the firebox, the creosote turns a reddish brown, almost the color of the red dust in the picture.  I wonder if that could be contributing to the issue.  Do think sprinkling Ashtrol lightly into the air holes periodically could help eliminate any plugging up?

[doctorb]

I think - maybe - that you're overworking this thing a bit.  I do not clean out the ash dust every 2 weeks, maybe every 4 weeks.  The problem is not the dust, it's that with a thick dust bed the coal bed covers the airt channels and the decreased air flow affects burn performance.

I have never, ever tried to keep the coals off the crescent opening.  I noted in your photo that you do not have the metal bars across the opening to help support the coal bed.  Does the 2400 not use these?  Having the heat (coals) as close to the reaction chamber is the best way to have the smoke get combusted there as more air is forced in.  Keeping the coals away from the opening is very counterproductive, IMO.

[wayno12]

You are correct, there are no bars on the bottom in the form of a grate.  I always figured I was over-maintaining this thing, which doesn't bother me since it is only a matter of a few minutes. However, that brings me back to square one, why am I getting plugged up to the point it is blowing out the solenoids.  It doesn't make sense.  I do just as we are talking about.  I rake the ash/coals with the poker from CB, then I use the poker to make sure the slot at the bottom of the firebox going to the combustion chamber is completely open, leaving the coals/ash mounded right up to the slot without covering it, then I stack my new wood on top of the coals.  I think the blowout from gas ignition makes the most sense, but why doesn't it happen more often as this should be a common thing.  Just wondering?!  You can tell from the picture I attached, something isn't working quite like it should.

[ronwood]

I don't  know much about the operation of the furnace is it possible that one of the solenoid is open when it should be closed. In the picture that you posted all of them appear to be open at the same time.

Is the fan operation in the right direction?

Ron

[Dean186]

You are very observant Ron.  When the stove is in high burn mode, all of the solenoids would be open.  So, I would assume that is when wayno12 opened the door and took the photo.

Wayno12,  I assumed from the earlier posts that the pressure was created by the fan and there was blockage in the normal exhaust.  That much pressure, from just the fan, is still hard to envision.  However, are you saying, or could the pressure have been created by your auto gas relight.  Gas builds up while the relight was a little slow in getting the flame lite?  This would certainly cause the pressures we are seeing from the photo.

[ronwood]

Dean,

Are you thinking the gas built up in the chamber and when it lite it caused a kind of mini explosion causing the dust to be push back into the area with the solenoids?

Ron

[Dean186]

Dean,

Are you thinking the gas built up in the chamber and when it lite it caused a kind of mini explosion causing the dust to be push back into the area with the solenoids?

Ron

Yes, that is exactly what I am thinking.  There had to be a lot of pressure to break up that much dust and send it back against the pressure of the fan.

[doctorb]

I completely agree.

[ronwood]

Could there be an issue with temp readings effecting the gas ignition and maybe that is contributing to the problem?

[jchartrand]

This may be a stupid question but have you checked for a blockage in your chimney?

[wayno12]

Hi all, and thanks for all the responses.  Sorry I haven't responded, I've been gone and then catching up over the last coupled days.  OK, now to bring everything up to speed.  In regards to the solenoids both being open, at the time of the picture, the burn temp was at 851 degrees, so yes, both were open.  Now, to explain how I "think" I have fixed the problem.  Saturday morning I got up and the fire had pretty much burned out and the firebox starting to cool down (160 degrees), so I thought good, I'll poke around the air holes.  After running a wire in and out of the air holes, it seemed like I wasn't getting anywhere as small amounts of stuff kept falling out.  So, I resorted to another means.  I went and pulled out a small snake for cleaning clogged drains and my shop vac.  This worked a little bit, but I could tell I wasn't getting everything cleaned out of the air channels.  Then I discovered a big contributing factor to the problem.  on the sides of the firebox, the air holes are drilled about 1" to 1 1/4"  above the bottom of the channel that the air flows through.  The crud that was built up in these channels was every bit that deep too.  So, back to the garage I go and I hauled out my air compressor and and air nozzel with a small tube on the end that would easily go into the air hole of the boiler.  My first blast of air sent a cloud of red dust past me and probably 10 feet out the door of the stove.  If I had to do it over again, I'd have video taped what I was doing.  So, to make a long story short, over the course of the next 2 hours, I would stick the air nozzle in one hole and blast it, then go to the on the opposite end of the side I was working on and blast the air the other way, then do it over again.  By working back and forth like this, it kept forcing this crud out the air holes a little at a time.  I have pictures of the stuff that came out of these holes when I got done doing this. I don't have the pictures with me right now.  I will try to post them tomorrow.  When all was said and done, I took out at least 2 quarts of this red, dusty, crystalized crap from just the air channels alone.  Word of advice, if you have one of these stoves and you haven't cleaned out these channels the way I'm talking about, you'd better do it.  You're in for one heck of a surprise at what will come out.  I think the side channels had plugged up and cut off the air supply to the air holes in the plate beneath the door opening.  When I was done, air was flowing out of all the air holes in the stove.  So, when I was done, I put all my coals that I had sifted out of the ash when I started back into the firebox.  After that, I put about 10 pieces of wood in and fired it up using my high pressure torch.  It took only about 15 minutes and I was reading 1100+ degrees on the panel.  Central boiler has some serious engineering to do to correct this problem and figure out a more efficient way to clean these air channels out.  This current design majorly sucks!  I love the stove, have no complaints about the way it heated my house all winter and am satisfied with my wood comsumption in doing so, but something as poorly designed as this, requiring the lengths I went through to clean it is just plain ridiculous!  I will be making a phone call to them this morning.  I would love to hear some responses from some of you if you check out your stoves to let me know the condition of your air channels.  Again, I'll post the pictures tomorrow.

[wayno12]

Dean186, I just wanted to reply to your post, because you have a good point.  Gas auto-relight would seem like it could have caused this, but I do not have that feature on my stove.  Thanks for the idea though!

[wayno12]

jchartrand, checked chimney when I started, and it was spotless.  I should have mentioned this earlier.  My apologies.