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Big Honkin' Walnut Log, Little Mill

Started by WDH, May 30, 2011, 09:27:10 PM

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WDH

You pros with hydraulics deal with the big logs all the time, so it is old hat to you.  With the manual mills, the big ones can be a real chore.  This walnut log tested the absolute limit of my capability and that of my equipment.  My tractor could barely pick it up.  At first it only picked it up about 1", but I was able to get it high enough to get to the mill. 





Without the big Super Logrite cant hook, I would have been up the creek without a paddle.  This is an incredible tool, the best $ that I have ever spent.  If you have a manual mill, you have got to have this Super Logrite.  With an ordinary cant hook, I could not hope to load and turn this log.  I also debarked the log to reduce the butt diameter since this log was cut this spring and the bark could be pried and peeled off.





This log is bigger than the spec limit of 28" for the LT15. 





Sweet success!  This log should make some really nice 8/4.







Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
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Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
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laffs

even with hydraulics those are sometimes a chore. last week i had a hemlock log 30"x16' it dressed out at 364' i got 12, 3"x8" x16s and some side lumber. i should have got more it was poor planning on my part.
timber harvester,tinberjack230,34hp kubota,job ace excavator carpenter tools up the yingyang,

WDH

Jeff,

I have some consulting work to do tomorrow and Wednesday, so I plan to begin sawing Thursday.  The log has a split in the small end that goes into the log about half way, so that will hurt the yield some.  I need some high quality 8/4, and I should be able to get plenty.  It is nice to already have the log loaded on the mill so that while I am away I do not have to think about how I am going to move it, load it, and whittle it down so that I can saw it on the mill  ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Bibbyman

At least it's nice and round and smooth.  Usually the big ones have butt swell and big knots to deal with.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Texas Ranger

The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

metalspinner

WDH,
I'll trade you four oak logs that look just like that for your one walnut.  What a deal for you!  I'll come by your place tomorrow and make the trade.  Those nice oaks will be waiting for you when you get home. 8)

Oh, and since you already have it loaded up, I'll just go ahead and saw it out while I am there...
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

pigman

 WDH, be sure to keep turning the log to keep the split at the edge of the boards. I am sure it will be easy to turn after it has flat sides. ;D
Call the stout guy a few miles north of you, he wants to see a sawmill operate. ;)
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

fishpharmer

Wow! What a nice log you have there.  Was it a "yard" tree?
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
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WDH

Chris, 

I would not want to take such advantage of you on front of everyone here on the Forum  :D.  However, if a wood sprite were to come secretly and saw the log up in perfect lumber before I get back home, that is OK  ;D.

Pigman,

Here is a better view of the split.  I would appreciate a discussion on how best to break down this log.  The goal is to maximize the best grade 8/4 in thickness.  Maybe some 6/4 too.  I was thinking of sawing it into two pieces by putting the blade right in the longest side of the split and sawing in the path of the split.  Then, saw each half like in modified quartersawing.  That will not maximize the width of the boards, but as 8/4, too wide and they are a bear to handle.  Anyway,  I would like to hear how others would deal with this split to maximize yield and to maximize the best quality 8/4 lumber.





James, 

It was not a yard tree.  It came from a bottomland in Upson County, GA growing on the first levee right off a good sized creek.  The tree had two perfect 10 foot logs in the main bole, then it deliquessed into branches.  When it was felled, it came down on a big branch in such a way the the stress of hitting the ground split the trunk.  In fact, the second log split into two halves, and the split then extended halfway through the first log.  What a shame.  The guy who felled it apoligized, but I told him that I did not see that coming either, and that I would have not done any better.  The way that tree had to fall, it was just wanting to split.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

DouginUtah


Danny,

For sure, I had to look that one up. Probably the first time that word has been used on this forum.

deliquesed: verb: botany--to form many small divisions or branches.

Good word.  :)

-Doug
When you hang around with good people, good things happen. -Darrell Waltrip

There is no need to say 'unleaded regular gas'. It's all unleaded. Just say 'regular gas'. It's not the 70s anymore. (At least that's what my wife tells me.)

---

kderby

Deliquese, how do you say that?  I will show that word to my wife while we are playing scrabble ;D ;D ;D

I would be intimidated by that log and I have a hydraulic mill.  Are you going for the cathedral grain?  What will the 8/4 be if things turn out well?

Inquiring minds (nosey people like me :D) want to know!!!

Thanks for sharing the process. 

Kderby

Ianab

Well my mill works different, but what I would be doing in your situation is to start with the split vertical. Take off the first slab, and a couple of boards, edge them later if there is useful narrow boards in them , or chuck them if it's not worth it.

Then roll it 180deg and repeat.

Now you should had a 2 sided cant, narrow enough for the mill to handle, that you can stand upright and just saw to the deck, discarding a couple of boards from the cracked centre. But you get all the nice wide boards that it's possible to recover. And you only have to move the log 2 times.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Chuck White

Usually when I have a log that has a split, I either start with it horizontal or vertical, usually vertical.

In the end, I will have the split horizontal and saw down to it then flip the log and saw down to it again.

That way most of the damage is contained in one board!

Your log is different though, the split is at 2 different angles, so just take your pick!

All in all, nice log though!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Ron Wenrich

I put my splits on an angle.  That keeps the split on the board edge and gives me the widest board I can get.  Grade yield is better on wide boards, as you'll get more cuts that will make a higher grade.  Defects put on the edge of the board can be better edged out. 

The way the log is currently loaded will cause all the boards on that face to be cut in half.  Being that its walnut will not hurt grade yield quite as much as if it were oak.  You're allowed narrower boards that would fall into higher grades in walnut.  But, an 8" face would bring that side into having two 4" boards.  Put that split on an angle and you recover the 8" board.  To pull grade on those 2 boards, they would have to be clear.  The 8" board would be allowed more defect to still make grade. 

It will require more turning.  As the split starts to creep up on your face, you'll want to turn it to minimize the impact on the board being sawn.  You turn to the 90° face and cut back to where the crack starts to cut into your face and where you would lose some volume. 

This method recovers the most volume, grade and value.  Other defect factors would also have to be considered.  But, this log appears to have very little defect. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

pigman

Quote from: WDH on May 30, 2011, 11:17:32 PM

Pigman,

Here is a better view of the split.  I would appreciate a discussion on how best to break down this log. 
Ron explained how I would have you saw the log. I am not sure I would want to turn the log that much on a manual mill. ;D
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

Bibbyman

Some of our best logs are veneer or grade that logger has split badly or in two. 

To get the most and best grade lumber, we would also saw like Ron described.   

If it were a common sawlog they we were just making farm lumber from,  we would saw "through and through" with the split horizontal. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

LOGDOG

Wow. What a whopper! Looking forward to seeing the lumber that comes from him.

tcsmpsi

I see.  LT 15 and WDH are about to get a notably challenging workout. 

And, though it might cause some to mortify, you likely know I would have taken a chainsaw to it first.    ;D

Seems like you already have a particular need....yours?....or, another's? 
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Dodgy Loner

tcsmpsi, it sounds to me like Danny is running out of 8/4 walnut to sell :)

Ron's description for sawing that log sounds like a good option. It would be an even better option if the crack ran in a straight line. Then again, sawing parallel to the crack would also be a better option if the crack ran in a straight line :-\. But don't expect me to feel bad for you for having to deal with this awful situation :D.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

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WDH

Doug, deliquesscence is a little used botanical term, but it is perfectly descriptive.  Conifers generally do not express this characteristic since they usually have a main bole that continues to the terminal bud with side branches.  Many hardwoods, with the exception of the poplars, aspens, etc, (which grow more like conifers), have a central bole that at some point explodes into whack of branches that make the crown round versus cylindrical.  I was not trying to be fancy, it is just the perfect word that fits walnut to a tee :).  

This wood is destined to be sold.  I cut, air dry, and sell hardwood.  I have walnut, cherry, sycamore, red oak, white oak, red maple, sweetgum, red cedar, green ash, yellow poplar, and a little mulberry and persimmon.  The LT15 works well because I am focused on quality and not production.  I do not cut enough volume to make a bigger hydraulic mill pay out, and custom sawing is not in my business plan.  My strategy is to harvest hardwood from my property and gain the value lift from turning a sawlog that might weigh a ton and have a stumpage value of $50 into lumber that might yield 250 BF at a value of $500.  That is how I get value out of my forest.  Plus, I actually enjoy interacting with the woodworkers as I am a woodworker myself (that is how all this got started in the first place).  I only focus on good quality hardwood as I have found cutting low grade logs into lumber to be marginal.  But I do cut some as I have to do that to manage the forest.

I have a good inventory of 4/4 walnut, but not much 8/4.  I learned the lesson not to cut 8/4 from the lower grade portion of the log; instead, cut it from the best because low grade 8/4 does not sell.

The input is thought provoking, and I am already scrapping my original strategy in sawing this log.  Keep the comments coming.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

tcsmpsi

Oh, you know I do, dodgy.  I feel so for him.   :D

Of course, that hickory he let stand and die....but then, Ike has left me plenty of woodpecker fodder that took such a sustained beating.

Yeah, I'm talking about you.   :)

Frankly, casting an eyeball on all that 'fun', I'm a bit pleased I'm no closer than I am.    :D  (sorta)
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Ron Wenrich

If you saw parallel to the crack, you're just basically live sawing the log.  You might get lucky and only have a little bit of waste.  As you walk back through the log, your defect will start to show in the center of the board.  Your boards will also be more prone to cupping. 

The options are to rip the defect out of the center or try to sell wide boards with cup.  There is an increased cost to the handling.  You still have to get rid of the defect, but it will be more concentrated.  Those will probably end up as stacking sticks. 

The good part of some of the boards will not have the typical plane sawn pattern that most hobbyists use in walnut.  You'll end up with some dabs of rift and quartersawn walnut.  I guess it would depend on your market.  If you're making turning squares, live sawing would probably work. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Larry

I used to saw parallel to the crack but pigman convinced me of the error of my ways long time ago.  I now saw as Ron describes.  Much better method with higher grade recovery.

I always dreaded turning those really big logs on my manual mill.  Your log looks to be round so turning might be a bit easier.  Sometimes I would wrap a chain around the log and pull up with the FEL until I flipped it 180 degrees.  Made the second turn against the log stops easier.
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tomsteve

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