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Lifting & Moving logs

Started by Chilterns, May 24, 2011, 05:46:57 AM

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Chilterns

Hi,

I am seeking a way to lift and move logs without the need to buy / rent or use heavy mechanised powered machinery or horse dragging extraction in an eco sensitive area. Typical logs would be 16 - 18ft long x 35" - 60" girth.

Chilterns

Buck

Have you tried meditation? :D
Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.

Live....like someone left the gate open

bigshow

how far? how high?  for moving around at ground level, there is this:

http://www.futureforestry.com/

upon further inspection, it looks like those wont handle your log diameters...
I never try anything, I just do it.

witterbound

Can you get any kind of machinery in there?  atv, truck, tractor, etc, or are we talking strictly human power.

Buck

The size of the logs is why I found it amusing. Have you considered portable winches and milling them in place. An arch would be handy and least impact.
Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.

Live....like someone left the gate open

Jeff

I would think the simple fact that logs from trees that size that were no longer in that eco-sensitive area would be a major disturbance, even if they were "teleported" out.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jim_Rogers

Well let's see, he doesn't want to buy anything. He doesn't want to rent anything. He doesn't want to use heavy equipment. He doesn't want to use horses. But he wants to move logs that weigh thousands of pounds.

If you don't want to buy or rent anything, then use what you've got.

What have you got that will lift 18' long logs that weigh thousands of pounds?
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Qweaver

35 to 60" girth eguals 10 to 20" diameter.  So depending on the type of tree 1000 to 2500 lb logs.  My 32 HP Kubota moves this size logs with little problem.  An 18' x 20" dia. red oak may start to test it tho.  That would be my solution.  Buy, borrow or rent a 4 wheel drive tractor with front forks and chains to carry the logs without skidding
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Jeff

It would be pretty tough to carry something 18 foot long (wide) through the woods with a tractor unless all the trees are cut down.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

isawlogs


There are, at times , impossibilities I beleive this  is one of them.  :-\  I would sudgest getting your wood from another site.
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

icolquhoun

i routinely move logs 18-20" in diameter using an atv and logging arch with ZERO impact to the ground. 
35-60" in diameter is a different story :-\

Jeff

If when he says girth, he means girth, which means circumference and not diameter, then an arch is perfect for many situations. With the limited info at hand, he might even be talking a cypress swamp, which an arch would not be perfect for.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ianab

Considered milling them on site with a swingblade mill?

Mill can be hauled in behind an ATV or other light vehicle, and boards and beams hauled out on a light trailer with minimal impact.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

bigshow

ah yes i misread girth for diameter.
I never try anything, I just do it.

tyb525

Heck we don't even know that he's milling them. He did post in the TF forum.

What is the location like (terrain, etc), what are you doing with the logs, and what materials/equipment do you have available?
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

WildDog

I am thinking sky hooks or a shovel, the shovel will take a bit longer as you would need to wait untill the termites do their thing and then shovel up the dust. :) Welcome to the forum Chilterns...don't worry about me I've had a long day.
If you start feeling "Blue" ...breath    JD 5510 86hp 4WD loader Lucas 827, Pair of Husky's 372xp, 261 & Stihl 029

Chris Burchfield

Chilterns,  I built this contraption for dual purpose and use it in combination with a Waren 9500ti winch.  One way is with wheels, lifting the one end of the log and winching to the trailer.  The other way is to remove the wheels, use the ramp pins as a pivot point and with a snatch block, lift the log end and setting it back down on the trailer.  I can then take another bite and set the log the rest of the way up in the trailer.  I have the tools and skills for machining and welding.  I don't have heavy equipment or $$$$'s for the same.




Woodmizer LT40SH W/Command Control; 51HP Cat, Memphis TN.

Thehardway

You have several low impact solutions available at fairly low cost but your going to have to be willing to do your research and fail a few times in trial before you get it right.  The skills you seek have long disappeared and have to be rediscovered through trial and error.   The key to your future is found in the past.  Do a little research and then think on it a little.  I would be thinking a "Donkey engine" and a "Donkey sled" running on greased skids with a haul line. This was known as cable logging and it disappeared around the early 1900's. 

Convert this to modern day technology with a chainsaw powered winch replacing the steam powered donkey engine winch. A small log sled on wooden skid tracks staked in place will prevent damage like rutting and the log should skid along quite nicely.  It can all be removed after you are done and leave little trace.

Here is a website to get you started. http://www.vannattabros.com/histlog.html

You aren't stealing logs out of the national forest or something are you? :(
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

Bill Gaiche

Chilterns, welcome to the FF. You asked a good question in general. To get the best answers or soultions to your task IMO is to state where you are located, type of terrain, how far are you transportion logs, what are you doing with logs, How high are you planning on lifting them. Good luck, bg

Chilterns

Hi,

Wow - 18 replies - I am ovewhelmed.

I think that the strength of this group is clearly demonstrated in that an optimal solution to the question posed will likely emerge through combining a number of the recommendations received. In particular, I like the Future Forests timber arch and this should be capable of lifting and facilitating the towing / winching out of the log to rideside with minimal damage to the ground and other trees. I suppose that Chris's contraption operates in a similar way to the log arch i.e. using the law of the lever to lift and wheels to allow movement with less drag. I like the design feature that allows this device to be used in combination with a pick up to raise and tow the log

The sled idea has merit in that it is easy to make and the log could simply be rolled / levered onto same and then winched along the ground avoiding the possibility of a whole load of dirt and stones becoming embeded in the trunk. This could also be used in part combination with Chris's contraption with the skid being fitted at the tail end of the log

I have and am considering the purchase of a mobile saw but at some point the logs will still have to be brought to a collection point to avoid the likelihood of vehicular and setting up damage being done by taking the saw to the log.

Having received such good ideas I concurr that it is quite likely very important to try out some of these options or a combination of same to establish what works the best however if the level of capital investment is greater than the potential return then that has to be recognised from the outset. 

Some clarifications :-

Yes girth = circumference at breast height.

The trees to be removed are mainly Larch and Douglas Fir with some western red cedar. I can provide a photo if that helps ?

The ground is good, fairly level, dry (at least in in summer) without any surface rocks / boulders / depressions to navigate.

Logs would need to be pulled a maximum of say 200 - 300 yards to a centralised stack / sawmill / pick up point.

The logs will be used to produce planks and boxed heart beams.

Some concerns exist about damaging rare ground flora and so I have to be able to establish and demonstrate a sensitive working method to keep the naturalists happy.

Chilterns

Ianab

QuoteI have and am considering the purchase of a mobile saw but at some point the logs will still have to be brought to a collection point to avoid the likelihood of vehicular and setting up damage being done by taking the saw to the log.

Not necessarily the case.

The swing blade mills are VERY light, as in get them to the logs with a quad bike and trailer. Mill the log where it falls. You don't get less impact than that unless you lift them out with a Skyhook (Helicopter?) Any machinery that's going to move heavy logs is going to create more impact, but of course if you can get the logs off the ground and rolling on wheels it's going to be less. You want to lessen the impact then you need to go lighter, and that means less logs per day.

I guess it depends on what scale you are planning? I can spend a couple of days on one decent tree, but if that recovers $1000 of timber for minimal expenses, it works.

QuoteWow - 18 replies - I am ovewhelmed.

The folks here are ones that are actually doing this sort of thing, be it on a commercial or hobby scale. How to recover logs, without spending a fortune, or making a heck of a mess.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Raphael

Here was my earliest solution to the problem.



It's an old front axle assembly with the tie rods welded so the wheels don't flop around.
If you can pick up and drag from the far end of the log then impact is near zero.  But I'd suggest something a bit more massive than a twelve horse garden tractor if you want to go down hill that way. ;)

Another cheap alternative is build a couple of rigs like my timber cart, all it costs is the price of a couple solid wheelbarrow tire/wheel assemblies and an axle.


... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

losttheplot

Same sort of thing.
If you made 2 or put 1 in the center you could push or pull it your self.
Or just lay some short logs on the ground and use them as rollers.










DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

Chilterns

Hi R & LTP,

I like the cheap, cheerfull and by all accounts effective approach that you demonstrate.

The DF log is about the same size that I have in mind to move though probably a bit longer. How do you lift the log onto the bogey ?

I have in the past used short logs as rollers to manually tow bigger logs to a stack but following an operation to correct a hernia I will now need to take much more care not to repeat this type of injury.

Chilterns

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: Chilterns on June 01, 2011, 03:32:33 AM
Hi R & LTP,

I like the cheap, cheerfull and by all accounts effective approach that you demonstrate.

The DF log is about the same size that I have in mind to move though probably a bit longer. How do you lift the log onto the bogey ?

I have in the past used short logs as rollers to manually tow bigger logs to a stack but following an operation to correct a hernia I will now need to take much more care not to repeat this type of injury.

Chilterns

How about using a small portable ramp and a Logrite cant hook?


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