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Diesel Pickups

Started by Gary_C, May 08, 2011, 11:13:54 PM

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Gary_C

This past week I met an old friend that told me about the new (2011) Chev one ton diesel pickup he had bought this past fall. He has been living a nightmare and now is demanding a new gas pickup to replace the diesel they cannot make right and will not disable the emission system to make it run right.

Apparently the problem is that both Ford and Chevy are making guniea pigs out of buyers of these new pickups with that liquid tank (liquid urea) that is used to reduce particulate emissions and will be required in 2012 in all pickup diesels. They (Chevy) are now on the third software revision and as he told them "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." One of the many problems is that urea liquid freezes in the winter in Minnesota.

From what I hear, International has developed an engine that does not need the liquid urea. And Cat quit making these small diesels but may have started again.

Does any here have one of these new pickup diesel engines?

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

WILDSAWMILL

no i sought out a mechanickly injected turbo just cause of this kind of thing
i wouldnt have a chev anyway
good luck to your friend
Kascosaw2B

snowstorm

yes the stuff will freeze but it wont hurt anything and there is a heater in the tank. all the urea is ...is deironized water and amionia.all the major engine co are using it except IH they are sticking with advanced egr. its all getting way to complex and costs way to much to fix. seems like it needs to be fixed way to often

Norm

I have the ford diesel with urea. I got it in February and have had no problems with it. The urea will freeze but the tank has a heater in it to prevent this. John Deere ag tractors have the advanced EGR to deal with this new tier 4 mandate. Mine comes in this June so I'll see if it works or not. You can thank the epa and the rest of the environmental morons for these new mandates.

Of course Gary you know I'm going to tell you the answer to this is tow it to the ford dealer and get a "good" pickup.   ;D

tyb525

I saw a 2011 Ford 350 at the shop the other day, looked underneath. That new cat looks like a bunch of cobbled together coffee cans about 5ft long :-\

If I were buying a diesel, it sure as heck wouldn't be a new one.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Burlkraft

I just bought a Chevy diesel.
It's a 2009 had 18,000 miles on it and I like it.
No urea tank and a lot of snort  ;D ;D
Why not just 1 pain free day?

Chris Burchfield

The 2011 Ram 3500's & up with the Cumins 6.7 have the DEF system to meet the 2010 EPA standards.  My 2007 6.7 met the 2010 standards without the DEF system, what's up with that?  Ford nor GM did they already had the DEF systems.  Overall horse power of the older 6.7 dropped from 350 to 305 hp with the DEF.  The older 5.9's had 325 HP, I figured the meeting 2010 EPA standards and picking up 25 HP were pluses.  Glad I got one when I did.  I suspect you might find a 2010 model without the DEF on some lot.  You may not get the package or color you want.  My only beef is the fuel efficiency.  About 12 MPG in the city.  I was complaining to Arkansawyer who also drives a Dodge.  I explained I've used pure synthetic beginning with the first oil change.  He said go with Rotella.  After 6000 miles, replace the oil filter, do not change the oil, but add the quart for the filter change.  The engine never broke in during first 38,000 miles.  Within 3000 miles I saw an increase of about 2 MPG upping to 14 MPG.  Good luck to your friend's plight.
Woodmizer LT40SH W/Command Control; 51HP Cat, Memphis TN.

pineywoods

I run 2 of those cummins diesels. A 5.9 in a 15 year old 35 ft motor home, 12 mpg on the road. It's entirely mechanical, the only electric on the engine is the fuel shutoff solenoid. The other is an all electronic 5.9 in an 04 3/4 ton dodge. I consistently get 21 mpg. The worst ever was 17 pulling a heavily loaded log trailer, stop and go driving. I have noticed that there is a 2 mpg difference in running 60 mph versus 70. At speeds below 50, mileage drops off a good bit. The overdrive kicks in at 50.
Hopefully they both will outlast me.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

LeeB

Quote from: Norm on May 09, 2011, 07:12:51 AM
Of course Gary you know I'm going to tell you the answer to this is tow it to the ford dealer and get a "good" pickup.   ;D

I take it ford has started selling Dodges.  :D :D :D
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Mooseherder

Service after the sale has taught me that I can't buy a Dodge product as long as we are living in this town.  Other than that, we are happy with our 2004 Cummins except I expected to get 20 miles per gallon.  It is just getting broken in at 85,000 miles.  Getting about 15.7 around town.

On a trivial note, has anyone noticed a major discrepancy on this subject of Pickup Trucks in regards to the show American Loggers? ??? ;D

Rocky_Ranger

I got a 2011 Ford 250 with the new diesel and urea tanks, runs great, 15,000 miles on it now.  Getting about 22 mph highway and 18 - 19 in town.  Pulling a 6 ton trailer at Interstate speeds take it down to about 12 mpg.  Best truck I ever owned, never seen one so responsive.  I bought a new 1976 3/4 ton with a 390 in it (I must have been in the fourth grade) - passed everything but a gas station.  This diesel will out-do that 390.....
RETIRED!

SPIKER

Where I work we are dealing with the off road tier3 tier4 issues now.   so far the stock of old engines are going fast so we are gong to be sticking the tier4 engines in real soon.   The Fords are pretty nice, I cant afFORD one though...   The direct injection are great from all I've heard.   At work we are switching form CAT to Cummins since they are more willing to work with us and provide us with all the good help they have.   I'm working on the 6.7 right now seems nice & will be a good runner I'm sure.

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

Gary_C

From what he told me, the problems have been with that urea tank freezing. It must have a bladder inside the tank to prevent the freezing from doing damage but it is not doing the job. Right now, as a last resort, they are replacing the entire tank and sensors along with new version of the software.

He also said the engine has amazing power and pulls his big cargo trailer like nothing is behind him. But went out west last fall and got 5 MPG pulling the trailer and normally averages 12 MPG.

Quote from: Norm on May 09, 2011, 07:12:51 AM
Of course Gary you know I'm going to tell you the answer to this is tow it to the ford dealer and get a "good" pickup.   ;D

I am on my third Ford pickup, a 2002 F-350 with a 7.3 Powerstroke but I'm not real proud of it. It gets about 12.5 MPG and always has something wrong with it.  :)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Norm

I hear you on the crappy mileage. I only have about 2500 miles on the new one but am averaging 18-19mpg on the highway. The one before it was getting 12-13mpg so even though it's better with $4plus diesel fuel it's still hard on the pocketbook.

jesse

the heater in the tank warms the fluid in the tank what is to unthaw the fluid in the lines from the tank

Ironwood

I have had two 7.3's and had NO issues with them. Newer Diesels are difficult and there is lots of misconceptions about what kinda mileage you CAN get if working them heavy. a 3/4 ton unloaded and geared high can do well, but higher GVW's loaded down they get lower mileage, but hey your working them, hopefully your making money to pay hte fuel bills.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Mooseherder

Quote from: Mooseherder on May 09, 2011, 12:05:00 PM
On a trivial note, has anyone noticed a major discrepancy on this subject of Pickup Trucks in regards to the show American Loggers? ??? ;D

No takers?
Hint:  Dodge Truck Commercial

Bobus2003

The 2011 Chevrolets have the biggest issues with the urea injection, Ford figured theirs out pretty quick.. chevy not so much

Quote from: Mooseherder on May 24, 2011, 11:11:32 PM
Quote from: Mooseherder on May 09, 2011, 12:05:00 PM
On a trivial note, has anyone noticed a major discrepancy on this subject of Pickup Trucks in regards to the show American Loggers? ??? ;D

No takers?
Hint:  Dodge Truck Commercial

Yeah they push the Dodge Power Wagon in that Commercial.
Quote from: tyb525 on May 09, 2011, 07:15:24 AM
I saw a 2011 Ford 350 at the shop the other day, looked underneath. That new cat looks like a bunch of cobbled together coffee cans about 5ft long :-\

If I were buying a diesel, it sure as heck wouldn't be a new one.

Its actually the DPF, CAT, and muffler assembly.. on the '08-'10 Ford with the 6.4l Remove this, and get a Regen Delete Tune and its the cats meow.. Great power and 20 mpg easily.

I had a '96, '99, '03 Fords with the 7.3l.. never had any major issues out of any of them.. Traded the '99 in with 212k miles on a Brand new '06 F350 with the 6.0l, biggest mistake of my life.. My 6.0l was in the shop more than i drove it in the 4 years I owned it

Mooseherder

They all drive new GMC or Chevy trucks in the show.
The commercials had them selling Dodge trucks.
It will be interesting to see if they convert over on their next purchase.

groomer_guy

I agree the 6.0 was not a very good idea. My brother inlaw has one and he has had 3 turbos, 2 injection pumps, 2 sets of head gaskets and new head studs. Still has it because he still owes on it. I have an 05' GMC and it has been good sofar. Only 97,000 miles on it though. I get 21.5 mpg in the summer on average, but the truck has a few mods done to it.
JD 450H w/forestry package, JD 1050 4x4, Stihl 044, MS440M, 066M

pappy19

As a dedicated Ford man, I have to say that the 6.0 Ford/International diesel engine did more to sell Dodges and Chevy's than all of their commercials combined. The list of TSB's(Tecnical Service Bulletins) is enormous and only about 50% of the entire batch of 6 leakers have had no problems. The 6 leaker will plague Ford for 25 years in the future, but the dealers love them, great shop time. One thing about it, every Ford dealer in North America has an expert shop mechanic for the 6 leaker. That's the biggest reason I went with a V-10 in 2008; never had a hickup in 91,000 miles.

Pap
2008 F-250 V-10
2007 Lincoln LT
1996 Ford Bronco
Kubota 900 RTV
Shindiawa fan

Bobus2003

Quote from: pappy19 on May 27, 2011, 10:46:43 AM
As a dedicated Ford man, I have to say that the 6.0 Ford/International diesel engine did more to sell Dodges and Chevy's than all of their commercials combined. The list of TSB's(Tecnical Service Bulletins) is enormous and only about 50% of the entire batch of 6 leakers have had no problems. The 6 leaker will plague Ford for 25 years in the future, but the dealers love them, great shop time. One thing about it, every Ford dealer in North America has an expert shop mechanic for the 6 leaker. That's the biggest reason I went with a V-10 in 2008; never had a hickup in 91,000 miles.

Pap

So true. The 6.0 is a hit or miss engine.. My first '06 was junk, but my current '06, dads '06 and my brothers '06 have all been great..  But sad to say my next diesel will be a Cummins.. '93 F350 w/'01 24v Cummins.. Building me a Fummins later this Summer/Fall

barbender

My understanding is that the reason International was able to get by with the EGR treatment ,instead of DEF,  is because they had some sort of pollution credits (cap and trade?) that they could apply to their engines, otherwise their non DEF engines don't actually meet the new emission standards. I run a 97 Dodge with a 5.9 Cummins, all mechanical. I'll run that just as long as I can. I will say, while I think alot of these emission standards are overboard, the new engines really run nice. I can't speak for the pickup engines much, but I have run a few late model heavy trucks with cummins ISX engines, they run so much nicer and smoother than some of the old mechanical diesels. But then the price of these engines is what you would have paid for a whole truck 30 years ago.
Too many irons in the fire

Ironwood

I did become somewhat enlightened the other day about Duramax. I have a family with 3 of them, two brothers and a Dad. Seems at 200K or there abouts they go thru a head gasket. I had not heard of this issue before with that engine. All three hit 170-190-200 respectively and needed head gaskets. FYI.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Magicman

Does that mean that Steve will need a headgasket in 150K more miles?  Wonder what Jill will do with the other head.....gasket  ???
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Bobus2003

Quote from: Ironwood on May 28, 2011, 10:31:47 PM
I did become somewhat enlightened the other day about Duramax. I have a family with 3 of them, two brothers and a Dad. Seems at 200K or there abouts they go thru a head gasket. I had not heard of this issue before with that engine. All three hit 170-190-200 respectively and needed head gaskets. FYI.

Ironwood

The Duramax has had Headgasket issues from get go. The aluminum heads are a source of this.. I have fixed 5 Different 6.6l Duramax's with head or headgasket issues, Always get the Heads checked if their is a Headgasket failure. plus early D-max (LB7) were known for Injector issues.

Ironwood

Thanks for the input. I am not a GM guy, but usually I get wind of this kind of stuff at some point.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

medic

This makes my old '85 F250 with the 6.9 diesel look better and better  :).
BTW, the truck I drive on my paying job is a 2010 F250 with the urea tank.  We've run it through the winter with no noticable problem with the urea freezing.  Of course, that's in NC not Minnesota.  It rarely gets below 0 (F) in my part of the world.
scott
Retired Paramedic, TimberKing 1400, Logrite cant hooks, old MacCullough chain saws.  Too many projects not enough hours in the day.

Grunex

Currently I am driving a 83 ford f-350 and have been wishing for a new one soon.......wether that will happen or not depends on a lot of things as you guys will all well know.  But I was wondering does the Dot have the right to pull over pickups to check for the DEF fluid?  even if they are not used as commercial vehicles?  What would happen if the systems were removed after intitial purchase? I'm not advocating doing something illegal here I'm just saying that it makes more sense to me to have the better fuel economy than to loose fuel economy to the DEF system and have to buy more fuel to do the same job.  I would be willing to bet that emissions from the DEF engines will not change a thing in regards to the amount of actual pollutions in the atmosphere when you factor in the lose of efficiency on the part of the engine.
www.grunexlandclearing.com
Maintaining America's Heartland one acre at a time.

Ironwood

Look in Truckpaper, and find the truck you want with a 7.3. You are a Ford guy right?

Ironwood.
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Bobus2003

Quote from: Grunex on May 31, 2011, 12:57:49 AM
Currently I am driving a 83 ford f-350 and have been wishing for a new one soon.......wether that will happen or not depends on a lot of things as you guys will all well know.  But I was wondering does the Dot have the right to pull over pickups to check for the DEF fluid?  even if they are not used as commercial vehicles?  What would happen if the systems were removed after intitial purchase? I'm not advocating doing something illegal here I'm just saying that it makes more sense to me to have the better fuel economy than to loose fuel economy to the DEF system and have to buy more fuel to do the same job.  I would be willing to bet that emissions from the DEF engines will not change a thing in regards to the amount of actual pollutions in the atmosphere when you factor in the lose of efficiency on the part of the engine.

Does MN do Emissions Testing? If yes, you have too keep the DEF/DPF systems intact at least long enough to get tested then remove, but be able to reinstall for next years testing. I know of a few 2011 Fords running with No DEF/DPF systems and Tuning and are cranking out stupid power and pretty awesome MPG's.

BUT!! If your using your truck for Work, running Commercial License plates the DOT can pull you over and inspect the truck.. Will the DOT officer know whats supposed to be on the truck, prolly not but it could happen

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