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bandmill blades storing and handling

Started by northwoods1, May 03, 2011, 07:19:33 PM

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northwoods1

How do you guys store and handle your blades both the newly sharpened and dull ones? What about if your portable is there a good way to haul them around without them taking up to much space and so they can be protected? This is one thing I have not figured out yet ::) right now I just put them in the bed of my pickup but there has to be a better way...

mad murdock

I don't know if it is feasible to coil a bandsaw blade of the type the band mills use, in smaller band saws, coiling the blade is the best way to handle and store them.  I know on bigger blades it is not feasible.  Maybe a ? for the guys at Menominee saw? or one of the band mill manufacturers has better insight.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

tyb525

Yes, you can coil bandmill blades, there are videos out there on how to do it.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Magicman

I've shown the MagicmanCan before.  



It is a modified garbage can.



I shortened the top and bottom.



Then riveted the top to the bottom.



I stack the blades, one up and one down with corrugated spacers between.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

dutchman

When hauling sharp blades I use a plastic  Christmas wreath container.
I buy them after Christmas on sale. Walmart, Target, HomeDepot, and such.
They are only good for about a years use.
You can put 3 in one container.
My blades are 1 1/4 x 13' 11" .

Banjo picker

My bands are 17 ft one inch.x 1 1/2..I started out with .050 bands and just couldn't get them to roll up....I got some .042 and it just snapped in a coil almost by itself...now the .050's are no problem....start out with the back of the band under your belly...with your hands out to the side and just kind of give it a whip up and down....I would wear gloves....Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Peter Drouin

I just use the wm square box with the blades coil up and cardboard in between , 10 at a time for the day #7 1 1/4, 55 has worked for the last 20 years  :D :D :D just don,t let the box get rained on :D :D :D :D :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Brad_S.

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on May 03, 2011, 08:21:47 PM
For a while I carried them in the back of the truck but in trying to minimize lifting I found 3 such boxes can be slipped in vertically under the engine of my sawmill and ride there quite well. 
Here in NY that would be the basis for an expensive ticket. A sawmill need not be registered or licensed as it is considered a dedicated machine but the moment you haul ANYTHING on it, it is considered a trailer and subject to all requirements therein.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

northwoods1

I can see that what I need is a magicman can :D yes that will do nicely I think. And banjopicker I watched a utube video from dan shade showing how to coil them that way I will give it a try today. Timbers you talk about leaving the pliers on your sawmill, here is a really stupid thing I did the other day, I needed to peel some cedar and was using my favorite draw knife which had belonged to my grandpa. Set it on the front bumper of my truck and forgot about it. Drove home from my sawmill/farm (20 miles some over rough road) and got out of the truck and there it was,about a 1/3 of it hanging off the edge of the bumper. Lesson learned: do not set drawknife on front bumper ever again :D

Brad_S.

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on May 04, 2011, 08:20:00 AM
I've just registered my LLC in NY and plan to be sawing there.  Plan to get the sales tax permit online before my first job.  Anything else to worry about?
Just be aware that the DOT cops are self funded and look for ANY minor infraction to do a top to bottom inspection of your truck and equipment so be on top of rules and regulations. If you will be crossing state lines, be aware of the interstate rules as well....i.e. medical card, log book, DOT numbers, name of company on truck door, etc.

The only other thing that comes to mind is that the state tried to ban using rough sawn, ungraded lumber in construction. Quite a few of the bandmill manufacturers got together to defeat the measure but the compromise was that the sawyer must certify the lumber is fit for it's intended purpose in writing, so if you cut for a barn for example, then you have to sign off on the lumber quality. I closed my business about that time so maybe a few of the other NY'ers can elaborate.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

northwoods1

Quote from: Brad_S. on May 04, 2011, 10:57:01 AM
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on May 04, 2011, 08:20:00 AM


The only other thing that comes to mind is that the state tried to ban using rough sawn, ungraded lumber in construction. Quite a few of the bandmill manufacturers got together to defeat the measure but the compromise was that the sawyer must certify the lumber is fit for it's intended purpose in writing, so if you cut for a barn for example, then you have to sign off on the lumber quality. I closed my business about that time so maybe a few of the other NY'ers can elaborate.

What?? The sawyer must certify the lumber is for its intended purpose? Why would any sawyer care about what the intended purpose is they are just sawing what the customer requests of them? Here in WI, if I am not mistaken they just passed a law making it easier to use locally produce lumber for building, and I had a long discussion with my local building inspector indicating the same was true. It is totally up to the local inspector here. If they say OK than there is no problem. That is the statewide situation here. As far as hauling some band mill blades on your bandmill goes... I fail to see how that would be a load as blades are a part of the mill.

pnyberg

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on May 03, 2011, 08:21:47 PM
I made lauan boxes about 30 x26 same size as wood-mizer boxes.  These are more durable.  For a while I carried them in the back of the truck but in trying to minimize lifting I found 3 such boxes can be slipped in vertically under the engine of my sawmill and ride there quite well. 

I can't get this picture to come into focus.  The flat-pack boxes I get from WM are 30" x 36", and there's no way I could get one to stand vertically on the mill under the engine.  Maybe a picture would help me see how you do this.

I'm pretty happy with my blade drawers...

...and I can get the carcass out of the truck in just few minutes, but then I have to put it someplace, and there's no place that's not in the way of something else.

--Peter
No longer milling

Banjo picker

When does one need a DOT number? I'm not familiar with that.  Is that for Commercial Drivers License operators? 
[/quote]

If that F350 you have has a gvwr of 10,001 lbs or more it is considered a commericial vehicle .  Some states will allow them to be registered without DOT numbers some won't...Just more needless red tape....Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Brad_S.

Quote from: northwoods1 on May 04, 2011, 11:19:52 AM
What?? The sawyer must certify the lumber is for its intended purpose? Why would any sawyer care about what the intended purpose is  
You might have missed the word "fit" for it's intended purpose.  It is essentially asking the sawyer to grade lumber. A 2x6 might be fit for a stall board but not a joist due to knot placement, etc. If I were to saw out an order knowing it was to be used as structural lumber but has a lot of crosscut knots that I know won't hold weight, I should not sign off on it being fit for it's purpose, otherwise I will be liable when it fails.

Quote from: northwoods1 on May 04, 2011, 11:19:52 AM
As far as hauling some band mill blades on your bandmill goes... I fail to see how that would be a load as blades are a part of the mill.
You can argue that with the cop.....I didn't make up the rules, I just try and live with them. I can tell you from first hand experience though that you will have an uphill battle. My guess would be they would be considered spare parts.

As far as the DOT requirements, I am not familiar enough with the rules to be the be all, end all authority. I DO know that in NY, any....ANY...one ton or over vehicle must have a DOT number whether you are a business or not (i.e. personal truck). Business 1+ ton must also have the business name on the door, personal trucks are supposed to have "not for hire" on them. They seem to be less inclined to go after a truck that may or maynot be personal/business but throw a mill behind it and they now assume it is a commercial truck and your risk of being pulled over rises dramatically.
I am not sure how it would work for a 3/4 ton pulling a mill.

You may wish to put DOT in the forum search engine and read some past threads that will get your blood boiling.

Crossing state lines also puts you into the catagory of interstate carrier and puts you on another level of rules.

Edit: Tim's post above is a more precise definition of the cutoff point as opposed to my "one ton" definition. Also, if hauling a trailer over 10K lbs GVWR, regardless of your total truck and trailer GVWR, you must have a CDL. Welcome to NY State. These are just examples of a few of the many reasons business's are fleeing the state.

Northwoods,
Sorry to have hijacked half your thread. I transported my blades just as you are doing now for the 16 years I was in business and never had any problems with teeth dulling or damage. I do like the garbage can idea though to keep rain from effecting the blades.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

thecfarm

I always wondered what the "Not For Hire" meant on a truck.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Brad_S.

I am sure your GVWR rating on the F350 is 10K or better. On my single axle it is 11.2K, on my former dually it was 12.7K. 7000 sounds like the unladen weight and even if you never carry a thing in the bed, it is still the GVWR rating that matters. There should be a sticker on your driver side door area that will give the GVWR. All factory built trailers should have them as well. It doesn't matter if you are traveling empty all the time, everything is based on the rated weight. An F 350 or GMC or Dodge 3500's are all considered 1 ton trucks and as such automatically need a number. I believe this is a Federal requirement. States then add their own demands.

Also (here in NY anyhow) when you registered the vehicle, it should say on the registration what you registered at. You can register at pretty much any weight you want up to the GVWR but if you registered for 7000 lbs and ever carry a load that puts you over that, you can be fined for being over weight even if you are still under your GVWR. Last I heard, it was a dollar a pound fine.
My understanding is that anytime a business vehicle crosses a state line for a business purpose, you become an interstate carrier, even if you are not actually carrying a thing.

My interaction with the NY DOT cops (you can tell them from a regular trooper by the fact that they drive a van as opposed to a car or SUV) came while I was riding with a workmate in my current job, not my sawmill days.
We were driving a 1/2 ton truck (Toyota Tundra) pulling an enclosed cargo trailer containing a self contained wind monitoring system. The system runs off of solar power (has large panels on the exterior) but has a gas generator to power it for those dark winter days in Maine where these machines usually operate.
We were pulled over because we didn't have a DOT number nor company name on the door. (Tickets # 1 & 2) When asked where we were going (NY to ME), we were considered interstate carriers (plus we were traveling farther than the 150 radius allowed to avoid log books) he wanted to see our medical cards and log books. (Ticket 3 on the card, he gave us a warning on the log book because that was a fine on the driver, not the vehicle....he cut us a bit of slack but it didn't matter as he was making his salary for the week on the other tickets.) He then proceeded to check the vehicle and trailer out from top to bottom. The generator is run off a 50 gallon boat fuel tank. Ticket #4 was for carrying fuel in a quantity greater than 8 gallons. Nevermind that that tank is legal in a boat, it is illegal to transport fuel in it outside of a boat. (RV vehicles are exempt from all these *DanG rules). Ticket #5 was for not having the proper paperwork to transport fuel. I don't know what it cost the company in fines but two months later the company rolled out it's new DOT compliance rules so it must have stung.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Brad_S.

I am speaking at the outer edges of my knowledge zone so please don't trust me for all your info. I have been told I am paranoid regarding the DOT and indeed I know some guys who have gone years and years without incident so perhaps I am.
You are under the 10K cutoff but as I said, I was pulled over in a half ton pickup because it was obviously being used as a commercial vehicle. Plus it had commercial plates since it was a fleet vehicle.
I believe if you google the DOT rules you will get a good idea of what an interstate carrier is defined as. I remember some informative threads here on the FF as well.
I certainly don't mean to scare you out of the state, just trying to save you a potential fine. Even if you were caught, I would think the cops would have some mercy on the first offense.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Brad_S.

I did a quick google search on who needs DOT numbers. Since your truck is rated at 9K lbs and the Woodmizer is registered commercially at 5K lbs, your combined weight (GCVW) is now 14K lbs so you are over the 10K lbs used as a cutoff point. Since you are plated commercial, if you plan to cross state lines then yes, you do need a DOT number. It also appears that CT, like NY, requires all commercially plated vehicles to have numbers. I am not familiar with what a "combi" plate is though. Here in NY you are either commercial, private or farm.
Also make sure you have a fire extinquisher and safety triangles in your truck.
Also, seeing your photo of the blades reminds me....since you are registered and plated as a trailer you should be able to haul your blades on your mill but you could still get a ticket for an unsecured load. They would need to be tied down.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Brad_S.

Expensive morning for you, eh? ::) I am glad to hear that info I was conveying was at least somewhat factual.
As far as where to find the rules, each person in our company got a booklet about one and a half inches thick with all the rules. I would guess you could find them at a truckstop. I honestly haven't read it all.
You would be surprised at some of the rules though. Did you know those plastic fuel jugs are illegal? (at least for commercial operators)  They must be metal. Or that leaving the trailer hitch in the receiver of your truck when you do not have a trailer attached is illegal and subjects you to a fine as well?
Whenever I see a truck pulled over as I am passing by, I have complete empathy toward the driver. It is not a question of whether he will get a ticket, it is a matter of how many and how much. While I am all for safe vehicles and operators on the road, this DOT stuff has gone beyond safety and has become an income generating scheme for many states.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Tom

This is the Bureaucratic Falderal that I've been concerned of in the past that is so anti-business.
When our Governments want to know what they can do to encourage business and production in the USA, they have no further to seek than their own backyard. 

Without going into detail, its probably better for a less public thread, this type of micro-managing is killing entrepreneurial thinking and closing small businesses faster than any threat of recession or depression.  It makes me mad.

isawlogs


Quote from: Tom on May 05, 2011, 01:31:51 PM
probably better for a less public thread, this type of micro-managing is killing entrepreneurial thinking and closing small businesses faster than any threat of recession or depression.  It makes me mad.
Actualy Tom I think anyone getting into a business should know what they are getting into. This is a good place to have the thread , ya never know maybe someone from those higher-up places that make all these goobermint regulational theories on how we should do things to there likings will see how stoopid some of them seam to us will look in.
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Tom

Yes, Marcell, it is a good place to have the comments as long as I haven't led the thread down a wayward path of arguing government instead of discussing the permission we must obtain to live here.

Banjo picker

Quote from: thecfarm on May 05, 2011, 07:17:14 AM
I always wondered what the "Not For Hire" meant on a truck.

If you are only hauling your own stuff, you can get away with the "Not For Hire"...this keeps you from having to have another insurance basicly....My son once got a ticket for"Operating without operating authority"  thats what it was about... we didn't have the other set of numbers ....we were only hauling our own stuff anyway and beat the ticket, but it didn't stop us from spending half a day in an Alabama courtroom...You can not charge any one to move anything or you come under the regulation.....Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

tyb525

I've seen 1-tons around here without the "not for hire" or a dot number for that matter, for personal use. Of course, those could be the ones that haven't been stopped yet.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

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