T&G production

[Norwiscutter]

Was wondering if anyone has any experience making T&G paneling with a Router.  Was trying to make the decison between building/buying a good router table or buying a half way decent single phase shaper.  The delta models are about 1500 bucks and am willing to spend the money if necessary, but if the job can be done another way I'd like to hear about it. I have a good Porta Cable router but I dont want to burn it up by running it for an hour or two strait.  I would be using the T&G for walls and floors with job sizes around 200-2000 bf max.  I dont mind spending extra time to get the job done, but am not interested in taking forever either. For those who have made T&G with a router, what would be realistic expectations for production rate? (in linial ft with 3/4 inch boards)  What kind of experiences have you had making T&G?

[shopteacher]

I've made a couple of T&G floors. The floor in my shop is T&G oak and I have a cherry floor in the bedroom.  Myself I prefer a shaper with power feeder.  I have two shapers, an old Delta 1 1/2hp and a new Bridgewood 3 hp.  You can run them all day long and they don't even wince.  At school we have a 3 hp Grizzly and use it for cutting raised panels. It's about 5 years old and haven't had any problems with it. I believe they sell for about 850.00 new.   I see quite a few used shapers on ebay for sale at some pretty good prices, if you could find one close enough to go and pickup.  I never timed how fast T&G can be produced, but if you have the boards ripped to width it cuts a pile down pretty quick.

[karl]

Yea, what teach says.
I prefer shaper with power feed- at least good featherboards.
Seems like the cutters stay sharp longer than router bits.
Easier on the ears too!
Now what I really want is a Logasol 4 sider 8)
"bout the only thing I use routertable for now is roundover on small parts.

[SasquatchMan]

In my mind, this would depend on what kind of wood you're shaping - if it's cedar, a router should be fine - oak, well, have to be a *DanG big router, hmm?  

You say a "good" PC router.  Well, PC make wicked routers, and you shouldn't be afraid to use it.  PC looks at routine service after 100 hours, bearing service after something like 300 hours if I remember right.  You'll need a big powerhead on the router (like if you have a 1.5 hp model 690, think again.)

Big machines ALWAYS pay for themselves if you're using them commercially.  I bought WAY more table saw than I "needed" five years ago, and I've never regretted it.  Portable power saws ditto.  I have a small (PC90690) router that I do edge profiles and some mortise work with, but I'd upgrade if I was looking to do what you are.  My suspicion is that if you have panelling jobs lined up, and lumber that makes sense to mill that way, then you will be way happier buying a shaper - you can make panels on it too...

I can see a router being fast enough on 1/4 inch stuff, but not on 3/4+ flooring

[woodmills1]

You can easily make anything with a router if you have a table/fence or use rollers to limit the cut.  I make a lot of shiplap with a router because most of it is too long for my shaper.  The router is slow, requiring multiple passes and it will fatigue your hands.  That said, I made all of my early tounge and groove flooring on a sears crafstman 1/2 horsepower shaper, some for me but most for customers.  Yes, it took two passes each for tounge and for groove, but hey value added is hey value added.  I am now at 1.5 Hp 220 volt with dedicated round tounge cutters, but it still is a work out on the hands.  So, all that said, make some with the router, as long as it is with rollers to control the cut, then take the money you saved and get a nice shaper and a power feed.

[Kevin]

How are the moulding heads for the table and radial arm saws?

[woodmills1]

Moulding heads work, I have also made lots with them.  The major difference especially with radial arm saws and moulding heads is that you must use hold downs and guards.  The first thing I made with a radial arm moulder was some 3/8's tripple bead.  D&^m Dang gee near split my head open and sure did knock all the tools offin the nice pegboard I had just set up.

[Norwiscutter]

I would be useing white and red pine, as well as white cedar. Havn't checked out the Grizzly stuff yet...kinda like to keep to the more mainstream brands. Regardless, the stuff I will be useing it for is mostly stuff for my never ending home remodeling project.  The wife gets a little grumpy about $1000 dollar tools. She says, "why not just go buy the T&G from the store?"  I guess they just dont get it.  I imagine that the table saw heads would be a bit faster than the router.  maybe have to try that out first.  Who makes a good table saw head for such an application?

[Larry]

I have a PC 7518 in the router table and a 3 hp Delta shaper.  Wouldn't think twice about using the router for a one time T&G job but you might have to make two passes depending on the size of your router.  The only advantage the shaper has is that it will run forever with a whole lot less noise.  Whichever way you go hold downs are a necessity.  Power feeder best, rubber rollers, or just plain old featherboards.  Same quality from all three.

Molding heads on the tablesaw also work but I sorta shy away from them now because I can only count to nine on my fingers after using one years ago.  Stupid mistake -- knot in the board blew apart and I wasn't using hold downs.

Shaper with rubber rollers set up for rail & stiles.




Dad has a 35 or 40 year old small PC router that has see a lot of use and abuse.  Went to the shop about 5 years ago for new bearings and that has been the only maintance.

[East_West_Dan]

I've made flooring and paneling with a moulder, shaper, router and table saw and you can be fairly productive with each method depending on the size of your runs. For 2000 ft. I would sub it out to a mill work shop with a moulder who probably has the cutters already and you would have to pay a small set up fee and then a lineal ft. price. To do that much footage in your shop with a shaper is possible but if you don't have a lot of space to move that much material around it could be slow going. For small runs of a few hundred ft. of lengths less than 8 ft. I put a 1/4" dado blade on the table saw and cut a groove in both edges and then cut spline stock to press in when you install. If you need a profile like a V groove in the joint you can profile the edges first with a router. For longer lengths feather boards are a must.

Dan    

[pasbuild]

  I have a 5hp Powermatic shaper with a 1hp power feed this combo can eat a lot of wood, I find that after you joint one side and one edge plane to thickness rip to width run your T and run your G that it is cost effective to drop off my mill run material to the guy with the 4 head molder.
  He charges 9 cents lf.

[Captain]

I'm about to begin (today) a 5600 foot run of shiplap on my new 3hp Delta Shaper.  Should be fun.....

Captain

[dan-l-b]

I just got done with some shiplap ash I did on a table saw with moulding head and hold downs.  Worked well, but it took two guys as I was working with 8' and 10' stuff.  Also shaped the rail for our waynscoating -- thought it worked fine.

[redpowerd]

im going to try using my table saw and a dado. if i had a router, id use that.
i never thought of using splines, should i make them of hard maple, too?  i have to cover 1500 square.

[East_West_Dan]

If it's kiln dried material installed inside any hardwood would do. I've seen a couple air died plank floors that shrunk enough so you could see the tongue or spline in the opening and they were in rustic places so the owners didn't mind. If there is any chance of significant shrinkage you might want to use maple or birch for a color match. I wouldn't use a soft wood.

[woodmills1]

If you are using air dried stock make sure to sticker it inside for as long as you can before you lay the floor.

[redpowerd]

i just put another loft in and theres no decking, yet.  imagunna toss them planks up there and sit on em for at least a year, then toss em down and lay em.  hopefully they wont shrink after they been up for that long, but it looks as though i should start cuttin them splines :

[breederman]

 This is why I love this place I've been makinging some t&g for some closet doors using the table saw,alot of puttsing around. Discovered last night i'm two boards short,gonna cut some splines after breakfast!

[East_West_Dan]

When I use splines vertically like in a door I always put a few drops of glue in one of the grooves to keep them from falling out. Glue in both sides will get you a split somewhere sometime down the road.

[breederman]

 Thanks E_W_D i have a bedroom door that split becouse it was glued :-[

[C_Miller]

  I'd be interested to heard hoe the red pine turned out.  I had some KD'd and it ended up being kinda twistery.

C

[East_West_Dan]

Your welcome Breederman, Wood can be the most satisfying and frustratimg material to work with - often in the same half hour. We need to share what we learned from other folks. Are they still making wood silo's out your way? I grew up in western Connecticut in a small farm community and the dairy I worked for had one that we had to take down after a long life. The hoops were too rusted to tighten up and when it was filled with silage it would take on a heck of a lean over the barn.Cut most of the bolts to the foundation except a few in the front to hold it as we pulled it over with a tractor. The biggest diameter tree I've ever felled! We salvaged a lot of the pine and it was great to work with. I made some bee hives out of it. Had a nice old corn silage smell.
Happy New Year,  Dan  

[Corley5]

Most of the old wooden silos around here are long gone.  The floor in Dad's garage is T+G from an old silo.  Grandpa built board fences around his barnyards from old silos and the rafters in the sawmill shed are 2X10 T+G from an old silo Grandpa salvaged north of Onaway.  All the wooden silos around here were made of fir, Douglas I think, not native woods.  In the early 80s Grandpa Whittaker sold our last silo to an art professor at the community college in Petoskey (NCMC).  The man spent a whole bunch of time lining the inside with plywood and bracing it.  Then he hired a crane to lift it off the foundation and set it on to a flat bed semi.  It was then hauled about 8 miles and set up on his own foundation.  The whole idea was to make a studio.  He built penthouse of sort on top with glass all the way around.  It's still there and most every time I drive by I think about the silo when it was still standing at home.  Grandpa got $800.00 out the deal.  That figured out to about to better than a $1 BDFT.  Pretty good money for 20 years ago.

[breederman]

I don't think Unadilla Silos are made any more,but there are still a lot of them in use on farms.You're right about them taking a lot of lean and not falling over.
I belive the company became una-lam,they make alot of large laminated trusses and beams for buildings and bridges all over the country.A few years ago they sold some swimming pools that looked like they were made with silo staves.I thought they looked a lot better than most steel above ground pools, but they didn't catch on.