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Speeding up production

Started by ATLGA, April 20, 2011, 08:12:01 AM

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ATLGA

Fellas we are running a TK1600 full time but need more production. I am trying to figure out the most cost effective solution. I keep looking at resaw technology for cants but I am not sure which direction to go in. Any suggestions fellas?  :P
America First.

Bibbyman

Years back we had a log talk about this very same topic.  A lot of folks put a lot of good ideas together.   I bundled it up and put it in the Knowlege base. 

Here is the link.

https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/tips/tips.cgi?display:1048166748-10029.txt

Could be some good reading.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

pa_of_6

More information would be nice.

What are you sawing? (final product)

Type of logs?

Equipment you already have?

Your production now? (hourly?)


thecfarm

How many helpers,employees you have?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

ATLGA

Bibby thank you for the link. I am reading it now.

We are mostly sawing white oak, cherry, and walnut into 4/4 to 8/4. Lengths are not less than 8ft. We have a mill operator and a part time off loader. Right now I think a full time off loader would be a good start. We use a forklift for loading the logs. I am thinking about getting a larger Lucas mill to run at the same time as the TK.
America First.

ladylake


  The swingmill sounds good to me.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

pa_of_6

What is your hourly production now??

If you are not max on the one mill, why buy a second?

Then you need two sawyer and 2 offloaders...and probuably a forklift operator full time to feed the mills and remove product/waste.

No, I would be sure that my one mill is at max production before I would spend any money on  a second one.



Bibbyman

TK1600 is at the small end of the hydraulic mills, isn't it?  Rather than a second mill,  wouldn't a mill with greater production rate be simpler and more cost effective answer? 

Also, better support equipment like live log infeed decks,  rollers or conveyers, dust blowers, etc. to move material off the mill may improve production without adding more manpower.

We sawed a gazillion board feet of walnut for a few years.  Most of it was low grade logs that were rough, small, short and crooked.   It's imposable to make a good showing at the end of the day sawing these kinds of logs.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

smwwoody

Listen to what bibby is saying. Log deck and edger with full time help would be the best rout. First you must keep the saw you have in the wood before you look else where. Unless you mill is spitting saw dust out of logs all the time you have not yet reached the mills potential

Woody
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

inwoodcutter

I agree with Bibby. Rather than adding a whole new machine why not improve the existing processes. You probably have untapped capacity in the mill you have just because the flow of material on and off the machine has not been streamlined. Look at what your two operators do step by step and figure out how to trim out some of that movement so the whole thing can go faster. That will be far less investment for much greater return to you.

My personal record for sawing on my LT 40 hyd was 276 feet an hour grade sawing oak and walnut. This was for hire job at the customer's place. The logs were large and cumbersome. I kept two off bearers busy pulling stacking and tallying lumber and also prepping the logs and getting them staged on the loading arm. We kept this up for about four hours straight. My two off bearers (good friends of mine) earned their dinner that evening. If I were set up in a stationary fashion I see no reason why I couldn't accomplish that with one off bearer and some intellegently placed conveyors, etc.

Dan
Dan Warner
"there's money in that slab"

Ron Wenrich

What is your goal for production?  If you up your production, will you have access to additional logs? 

Right now, there is plenty of used mill equipment that will give you a lot of production for low dollar investment.  Used handset circle mills will give you plenty of production for just a couple of guys. 

The biggest improvement anyone can make to speed up production is the use of an edger. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Will_Johnson

My vote would bealong with Bibby and others for a more automated single mill.

The 1600 is an awesome mill (though I am biased) but once you're really trying to get big production the best way to get the most for your time standing at the mill is to have a more automated mill. Problem with adding machines is that you're still using your time at the mill with relative inefficiency.

Then you're spending additional time at your new machine that could have been used getting more production out of your first machine...plus you've incurred additional costs of buying and maintaining a second machine.

Also with the types of logs you're talking about -- relatively valuable hardwoods -- the kerf factor on a swing mill becomes a concern. Much of your value is going up in sawdust.

A TK 2000 would be a good choice here -- I am biased of course, but also you would be able to hit the ground running fast with it because of the similarities between it and the 1600. You will be able to get sigifcantly more production -- plus your blades will fit it!

We do have a lovely low-hours 2000 right now that would fit the bill. (Hope this doesn't break the rules of the forum if so Bibby please reach out and slap me...)

Will Johnson, TK

Bibbyman

Will,  it looks like there is not an edger on ATLGA's list of equipment.   I'm with the other guys in the next thing I'd add would be an edger.  Wouldn't that up production from 20-30%?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

paul case

Quote from: Bibbyman on April 20, 2011, 08:22:39 AM
Years back we had a log talk about this very same topic.  A lot of folks put a lot of good ideas together.   I bundled it up and put it in the Knowlege base. 

Here is the link.

https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/tips/tips.cgi?display:1048166748-10029.txt

Could be some good reading.

it was some good reading.
did anyone else notice that tom's fav setup sawing with a helper didnt produce any sawdust? maybe he could share how he makes lumber and slabs but no sawdust or i guess it could be that he was implying that he never sawed enough with a helper to make any sawdust? come on tom, whats up?  pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

LPitt

First let me say i'm not a pro like a lot of guys here, but I do saw a good bit of wood. I may saw 2 or 3 days strait and then not again for 2 or 3 weeks or longer. What I did was add a drag back and 30' of roller conveyor. Now as soon as I bring the saw head back i'm ready to make my next cut while my off loader stacks the wood in a rack to be moved with my Bobcat forks when it's full. This seems like it doubled my production.   
Linn Lumber 1900 hyd, Bobcat T190 with grapple ect., Kubota MX 5100, Ford 555E backhoe, Sthil ms460, home made wood splitter, and more projects than I can count.

Tom

Quotecome on tom, whats up?

I'll have to admit to an inadvertent omission.   But, on the other hand, with good help, why would I worry about sawdust?  :)

Most mills put the sawdust where it exits the mill.  I was using an LT40 at the time and the sawdust was left in a stream where I walked.  The shoveled pile would end up behind and at the rear of the mill.  The important thing is to put it where a tractor can pull it away, or for the job to be done before it becomes a nuisance.

paul case

my sawdust goes out where i walk too. always move it out of the way with the tractor.

i just noticed this by happenchance and thought that you have been around here long enough that you earned a hard time for the oversight.   pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

ATLGA

You guys are amazing!  ;D I will read through this thread several times with my business partner and make a plan for action. Ill run this plan through the thread for any suggestion or critiques.
America First.

ATLGA

I am looking at an edger now as an addition to our equipment (thanks fellas). Sawmill XC has a few on there. I dont know a ton about them. Anything I should avoid or gravitate towards? It will need to be gas or diesel powered.
America First.

Bibbyman

Have you looked here on the Forum under For Sales?

Also CMS has a lot of used equipment.  Also, also....  Check with the Forum's other sponsors.  Most have a used equipment section.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

ATLGA

10-4 Bibby.  I am trying to figure out how an edger can speed up production. If we are cutting cants down on the mill most of our lumber already has a good edge. Does this replace our SLR step? I know this is a novice Q. but we just have not used one of these before.  :P
America First.

Ron Wenrich

So, you're using your mill as a resaw?  Why not describe your operation a little better, and what kind of products you're producing.  I'm thinking everyone on here thinks you're running a typical mill operation where you break logs down to lumber and blocking.  What kind of production are you aiming for?
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

ATLGA

Ron,


We are breaking our logs down into cants and quarter sawing most of our oak(why most of the boards already have a nice edge). Yes we do finish off the boards on the TK, usually at 4/4, 5/4, and 8/4. We flat saw the cherry and walnut and SLR or S2S when customers request it (most of the time).
We also produce beams and cribbing for a couple crane companies etc. Its hard to go fast for QS oak but I can certainly see speeding up on our plain sawn stuff. We are starting to get more custom jobs too where somebody will show up with some logs and want us to saw them out for them.
I would like the guys to be able to have our TK maxed out, I am guessing thats around 1200bf per day of 4/4 material. Right now they are getting 6-800bf.
America First.

Bibbyman

How do you get the cants?  Are you making them somewhere else on some other equipment?  Surely someplace in the process there are flitches that need edged?  Else you're making some awful big slabs!
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

laffs

i  dont have an edger either,or know if i have the room, but i figure it would boost my production by almost a 1/3 rather than do them on the mill. my in feed deck is 6x6s 12' long on top of 6x6s which work ok the next bottle neck is off loading if you dont have dragbacks. you have a foklift which i do not so moving lumber shouldnt be a problem. i would lean towards an edger and some sort of greenchain.
Brent
timber harvester,tinberjack230,34hp kubota,job ace excavator carpenter tools up the yingyang,

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