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Started by etat, December 23, 2003, 10:29:20 AM

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etat

I need additional ideas on a thread on the timber framing forum.  I need to arch, steam, grow, mill, whittle out, or laminate some curved beams.https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=tframe;action=display;num=1072151183
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

pasbuild

I think your best bet is to laminate.
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

woodmills1

I was thinking maybe you could timber frame it like a kind of truss, though I am not sure how to do it that way.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

karl

"I ask for wisdom and strength, Not to be superior to my brothers, but to be able to fight my greatest enemy, myself"  - from Ojibwa Prayer.

chet

I'd vote for lamination too. As an added bonus you get a much stronger beam.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

etat

So, my choices are now narrowed down to some curved trees and a 5000 dollar saw, or lots and lots of Popsicle sticks and a 55 gallon drum of glue?  ??? ??? ???
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Tom

I liked your idea of a steal beam that was molded to shape and covered by wood. :)

isawlogs

Use hardwood to laminate and for the decking . 3 inch decking would do it and not sague  I like the project would like to be closer and help out on the fabrication ...
   Mind me asking  Why... the arch...
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

etat

Thanks Tom, I wouldn't a thought ideas would be so hard to come by.  To me, working with steel is easy, but the idea of a large curved wood beam, laminated or not is driving me nuts.  Other than this I've about got the upstairs ready to paint.  Getting ready to install the quickset and backer boards for the downstairs bathrooms.  For the tile, another thing I'll have to 'learn as you go'.  After that I'll start the finish work downstairs.  Did I mention I absolutely HATE finishing drywall.  I honestly believe that by the time I finish the whole house I'll be pretty good at it.  The upstairs was really really hard.  Lots and lots of angles and vaulted and cathedral walls and ceilings.  Lots.   I'm starting to feel like a nutcase.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

etat

isawlogs, the last line in my last post probably answers your question.  
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Tom

Something to remember about curved wood and how easy it is supposed to be to find or make what you want is that the english marked live oaks in the South East for building ships, etc because they had certain curves in the root/trunk or Trunk/limbs, etc. that would save the carpenter from having to manufacture something.

Maybe you need to walk through the forest looking for trees or limbs that would fit the bill?  If you could find one tree that was bent the right way, then you could get two or three beams cut from it and they would all have the same curve because they would have grown up next to each other. ;D :)

etat

Tom, funny you mentioned ship building.  Are you reading my mind"  The last couple of hours I've been reading up on it.  Curved limbs are pretty easy to find.  I just didn't or don't know if a limb is as structurally sound as a tree.  
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Ed_K

 CK, wish you where closer. I cut three white birch and a red maple today with a good arc to them. 16 - 20" dbh and 4 - 6" sweep in 12'. Only think is, would these be sound enough. You just have to look for them, it seem to me that they grow where its real thick growth.
 Ed
Ed K

etat

Ok, looks like I'm a going to have to go 'loggerin' and see can I find me a crooked tree.  No timber to speak of on this little place of mine.  A little across the way I've got a pasture rented that is full of pecan trees.  Great ole big pecan trees.  As I said I don't know anything about limbs but seems a bunch of them limbs got some pretty good curve to them.  Pretty good sized limbs too.  Now down below me there's some pretty good sized red oaks.  Again, big limbs.  Now a little ways down the road I've got a aunt in memphis what owns a pretty fair sized place, about a hunnerd acres or so.  Maybe some curved trees there, havn't been up there in a while.  Now, back to the limbs part, what say if I had a couple of pretty good sized limbs, say about 10 or 12 or 16 inches or so with a fair curve to em, hooked me a ring to both ends of both of em, and tightened up a come-along or chain hoist so as to pull all the curve I'd think I needed and so's they'd kinda match and let em dry a spell.  Or, found a whole tree I could beg off somebody with a good sized curve as I could split and hew me out some timbers. that matched.  Either way it's all gonna be hard but that ain't never stopped me before.  Out of these options what ought I be lookin for?  Again, I don't know if a limb is structurally sound as a tree.  But if those old guys could build those curved ships, surely I can get me a few curved beams.  Or do yall think it'd still be better to laminate?  Or box in some steel.?  Or a particular brand of tree I oughta be lookin for.I'm a gonna beat this subject to death until I find me a suitable answer.  As for the language, jest lettin my country side come out a little.  :-/ :-/
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

dail_h

   CK,
   If you can find a tree-limb with the right curve,why not saw with a chainsaw mill? I think a limb big enough to make a beam would be strong enough,but you might better ask somebody that really knowes something.
World Champion Wildcat Sorter,1999 2002 2004 2005
      Volume Discount At ER
Singing The Song Of Circle Again

Stan

I may have been born on a turnip truck, but I didn't just fall off.

Fla._Deadheader

CK, check out the Logging forum, under "growing curved timbers". ;D :D :D

  Stan, are you related to Bob Newhart??? :D :D :D :D :D :D
  He cracks me up too ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Bro. Noble

CK,

My son is off visiting this week so I'm free all week 8)

We've got lots of trees and we aren't too awfully far from you.

If you want to come up I bet we can find you all the crooked trees or limbs you need.  

I think you could saw them on a bandsaw by leaving the mill stationary and moving the log.  It would take quite a bit of muscling.  If i were doing it,  I would do the sides first on the WM.  Then the inside radius on the WM,  then the outside radius on the resaw.  Might do it all on the resaw.  Yes I believe I could do it ;D  
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Bro. Noble

Been thinking how to do this all morning and think I got it figgered out.

Pick the curved limb or stem-----somewhere between 16 and20 inches dia.  to make 3 beams 4 or 5 in. wide.

Lay it on the mill with the bow away from the clamp and with the first end of the log against the dogs.  Saw as far as you can (slabbing the top) and then reclamp so that the belly is against the dogs.  Saw as far as you can and then reclamp so that the far end of the log is against the dogs.

Repeat this for each cut so that you end up with three pieces of equal width.

Smooth the outside radius of each beam so that there aren't any big humps.

Set the blade on the resaw so that it makes a flat on the outside radius.  You could run it through twice,  the second time would make a more regular surface.  You would need a person on each end of the beam to guide it as it went through the saw.

Set the blade to cut the inside radius and feed it through as above.

Estimated time,  one to two hours.

Whadda ya think?
milking and logging and sawing and milking

etat

Bro. Noble, I really wish I could take the time to come see you.  Just too much going on right now.  Only been to MO. Once in my whole life.  A couple of years ago was our 20 anniversary, and the wife and I decided to go to Branson.  In Feburary.  We didn't see any shows, they was mostly closed down for the season.  Wasn't the real reason we went anyways.  We stayed a week and every day we'd spend the whole day just riding around.  Up and down the mountains, through the woods, and stayed off the main roads as much as we could.  Covered quite a bit of country in every direction.  No plan, just head out, see a gravel or rock road and cut down it to see where it went or what was down it. Really really pretty country, lots of hills, and trees and  rocks everywhere.  Lots of times we'd stop and walk off in the woods just for the adventure of it. We gathered us up a few of them rocks  and brought back to use somewhere on the house.  
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Tom

ck,
I would opt for white oak or some other rot resistant variety if there is a choice. :)

etat

Still one question bugging me.  For instance.  Say a white oak tree, 10 feet section of trunk, fairly young tree, 18 inches diamater.... White oak limb, off of an old tree, 10 foot section, 18 inch diameter.  Yes I know, would be a good sized limb, but I'm saying for instance.  Is there a difference in the structure and integrity of the two.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

beenthere

You would find the limb (all other things equal) to have 'tension wood' in the upper side, which is abnormal wood that has 'problems' that normal wood does not have. More longitudinal shrinkage, I believe, is one of the characteristics. Tension wood is full of wierd (gelatinous) fibers which have a different fiber orientation to one of its cell wall layers (secondary I think) that causes this. Now, to be sure, I should look all this up and may just do that, to avoid going strictly by memory --but it is something like that.

Also, the 'young' log vs the 'old' limb would have fewer growth rings to reach the same diameter, and in ring porous hardwoods, like white oak, the wood of the fast growth (young)would be stronger (more dense) than the wood of the slow growth (old), I believe.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

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