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split rail fencing

Started by northwoods1, March 16, 2011, 08:45:15 AM

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northwoods1



I have one heck of a lot of cedar and I was thinking about making some split rail fencing out of it. I really like the look of that kind of fence. What is a good way to mortise and tenon the posts and rails ???, I am trying to figure out quickest and easiest way, naturally... :)

Anybody ever saw split rail fencing?

isawlogs


Never sawed it but did do some with dad and grand dad, we took the trees that had butt rott and split them with wedges.( chainsaw helped to start things off) Dad had a small Mac saw with a twelve inche blade that we used to punch rectangular holes that we ronded off at the top and bottom sort of like a streched  " 0 "  Then we flattened the ends of the rails and put them through the hole in the post, I don't recall pinning them in there , I think we just whacked the next one in and it held there wit pressure.
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

beenthere

Split 10' white oak for rails, but laid them up in a zig-zag pattern. Sounds like you are talking split posts and rails, when asking about mortise and tenon.

There are boring bits,  maybe a jig to make your tenon.
south central Wisconsin
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bandmiller2

Years ago I made a split rail fence using sound chestnut phone poles,split like a dream.Took an axe to the ends of the rails.Posts I bored two or three holes through with a big wood bit and chisled out between them. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

r.man

I have helped my father split rails with a couple of wedges. He sometimes used multiple axes or ax heads to wedge a large cedar into rails. He would also do the same with short posts to make cedar stakes. The fence was built using rails laid against the posts and wired to them or he would wire a stake a rail width away from the post and slip the rails between. He always did it this way if he thought he might want to temporarily take down that panel for some reason.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

simplicityguy92

i split cedar into rails and posts all the time with steel wedges just make sure u split from the small end down

northwoods1



I guess I'll sort out a few that have some center rot and find out how easy they will split. I imagine that cedar will split fairly easy. I was looking at some websites that sell the split rail fences with the posts having a mortise and the ends of the rails having a tenon but from the pictures I was looking at it really looked like a professional job the mortises were nice and clean cut with a round top and bottom. I think a small chainsaw with a narrow bar might be the ticket. Maybe bore two holes and cut out between but that seems like it would get to be pretty time consuming unless you could do it with a big drill. I'm gonna give it a try and see what happens.  :)

isawlogs


A small bar and a chainsaw  will be fairly easy going , we did have the post in the ground when the holes where punched through.
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

carykong

here in Virginia the principle cedar is eastern red which makes great fence posts but is difficult to split into uniform rails. I think if I were to build a split rail fence in my next of the woods, I would make the posts out of cedar and split the rails out of white oak.

Mooseherder

Isn't this style Split Rail?



Cedarman

ERC splits very well.  We have probably split well over 10,000 rails over the years.  You must split down the heart, even if it is off center.  One way is to bore a slot with a chainsaw in the side of the post and then drive in a wedge.  Use a splitting maul to bust out the ends.  You will have a few split out the sides, but 5% or less if you are careful.  Visit Shiloh National Battlefield in Tn or River Bridges in SC to see some of our work.  We split out just under 10,000 sassafras rails for Lincoln Boyhood State Park in Indiana about 2 or 3 years ago.  We use a long splitter that has a 4 way to make 4 rails at once.  We can use the 6 way for 8 and9" logs.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

beenthere

Quote from: Mooseherder on March 16, 2011, 09:10:09 PM
Isn't this style Split Rail?
.......

I'd say it is one style of split rail. :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

weisyboy

we do a lot of split rail fence, both posts and rails are split with a chainsaw.

the pots we mortise with a chainsaw and we tenon the end of the rails with a chainsaw also, i use a stihl ms210 with 12" bar, easy to control and light.

there is a pic on the front page of my website of one.
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northwoods1

Quote from: Mooseherder on March 16, 2011, 09:10:09 PM
Isn't this style Split Rail?




Yes that is split rail, you can put split rails up a number of different ways. The way I was talking about using mortise and tenon is similar to what is seen on this website:

http://www.hooverfence.com/wood/cedar-split-rail.htm

Cedarman, I am wondering what lengths you make up into split rails, 8s' and 10s'?

That long 4 way splitter arrangement sounds like the ticket. I was thinking a guy could fairly easily rig up something like that for cedar as it splits so easily, you wouldn't need a real long stroke. How long a stroke do you have, similar to a regular firewood splitter or is it longer?




isawlogs


I have seen using a skidder and fourway knife put to a stump and do a whack of rails in no time... push the rails into the knife wit da skidder. No I had no picture taker at the time , the knife was about six feet ahead of the stump and anchored to it and braced so it could not lift up , stump was cut about six feet ( guess a tree could of been used too). It seamed to do the job they where three of them at it ... The skidder sure did not seam to work all that hard pushing the rails into the knife.
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Magicman

Quote from: northwoods1 on March 16, 2011, 08:45:15 AM
Anybody ever saw split rail fencing? 

I would think that you could saw a rail fence, but not a split rail fence.  Then it wouldn't be split, it would be sawed.
I've sawed rail fencing and used a circle hand saw/chisel and large bits for making the mortise and tendon joints.





Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

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isawlogs


Thats a real nice sawed fence, a split rail fence is a tad bit more rustic lookin'  ;) :)
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

LeeB

You could use the round tennon cutters and bore the holes with a spade bit.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

northwoods1

Quote from: isawlogs on March 17, 2011, 09:40:28 AM

Thats a real nice sawed fence, a split rail fence is a tad bit more rustic lookin'  ;) :)

That sure is nice :)

With the split rails a lot of the attraction for me is your making something out of what can't be sawed because it is to small or has some defects. I know like weisy from down under was saying they do saw the split rails down there but with a chainsaw. Splitting cedar is easy though.

Magicman

Another option is to saw it and then add your hewing to the surfaces.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SwampDonkey

As Cedarman mentioned, run the split down the centre of the heart to avoid crossing the grain of knots. If you hit into knots white cedar will tend to fracture around them. If your just talking about the but wood than of course it will be a lot easier then top ends of the logs, goes without saying. But anyway. ;)
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mad murdock

Weisey had posted a method he uses with the Lucas to make all the lengthwise cuts on a log, then drop it, and it busts up into several rails, for the posts he makes.  That would be a quick way to make the rails too.  If'n you had a swingblade mill that is.  :-\  Can't beat cedar for fencing, long lasting stuff.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

SwampDonkey

Yeah, the old white cedar rail fencing on lines here can still be found on abandoned fields they left and never returned to since WWI. There is fencing older than that, that everyone used up as kindling when farm land improvement programs began in the 80's. When I was a kid in the 70's every farm line around here had rail fencing and sometimes on down the line through the woods. Tons of cedar in the woods around where I live, most stands have been cut through now though. They'll wish they never clearcut all those stands so quick (last 25 years) some day because it took 150-250 years to get as big as they were. They are (have been) just wasting it on crown lands, pushed up in big piles along the roads.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Cedarman

We split mostly 10' rails.  I used a long I beam and welded a vertical knife at one end. Two horizontal blades bolt to the knife. This way they can be removed and angled knives can be bolted to make a 6 way splitter.  I use the hydraulics from a MF 3165 industrial loader for power.  It is what I have.  Makes a nice place for wife to sit while she runs the controls.  We use a 4" x 2' hydraulic cylinder to push the log into the knives.  The whole cylinder sits on the I beam  and can slide down the beam following the log.  The I beam has holes into which a 3/4 bolt is placed giving the cylinder something to push against.  The cylinder is attached to slides that keep in on the I beam.
Today 2 guys plus wife split 150 rails in 3 hours from 8" x 10' cedar.  $6.50 per rail.  Cedar log costs about $11.00  4 split rails $26.00   It's not quite that good because every once in a while you lose a rail to split outs. Not bad return.  Have 50 more to go and son will deliver tomorrow.  Gets paid to deliver too.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

northwoods1

Quote from: Cedarman on March 17, 2011, 10:25:19 PM
We split mostly 10' rails.  I used a long I beam and welded a vertical knife at one end. Two horizontal blades bolt to the knife. This way they can be removed and angled knives can be bolted to make a 6 way splitter.  I use the hydraulics from a MF 3165 industrial loader for power.  It is what I have.  Makes a nice place for wife to sit while she runs the controls.  We use a 4" x 2' hydraulic cylinder to push the log into the knives.  The whole cylinder sits on the I beam  and can slide down the beam following the log.  The I beam has holes into which a 3/4 bolt is placed giving the cylinder something to push against.  The cylinder is attached to slides that keep in on the I beam.
Today 2 guys plus wife split 150 rails in 3 hours from 8" x 10' cedar.  $6.50 per rail.  Cedar log costs about $11.00  4 split rails $26.00   It's not quite that good because every once in a while you lose a rail to split outs. Not bad return.  Have 50 more to go and son will deliver tomorrow.  Gets paid to deliver too.

I'm gonna go pick through my pile of I beams as soon as it gets light enough out and then scrounge me up a hydraulic cylinder to make a set up like you describe. It wouldn't require much power at all I bet I can keep it really simple.
That is about the same price I had in mind, I'm gonna give it a go and see what happens.
At least with the split rails it will allow me to turn the lower quality logs into a finished product quickly so I can spend my time sawing only the better stuff.

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