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How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?

Started by scsmith42, March 13, 2011, 03:40:08 PM

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scsmith42

During the past few months I've seen an uptick in enquiries at my wood business.  Sales are up slightly, but the enquiries even more so.  This also holds true for some ads that I have running for surplus items.

Thus, I have been encouraged that slow progress was being made in emerging from the recession. 

However, the recent increases in fuel prices are leading me to believe that will be a strong likelihood of a double dip recession if things don't change.  Fuel costs were one of the triggers of the problems back in '08; although folks were overextended financially, the house of cards fell down when transportation expenses doubled and discretionary income disappeared for the average folks (as well as the resulting impact to business from energy costs as well as loss of the construction markets.)

Politically, there is a growing awareness of the dangers of out of control spending, and God willing, as the folks keep pressure on the Pols there should be some direction changes forthcoming.  I view the emergence of the Tea Party as a good thing in this area.

However, what I'm wondering is what steps can the average folks take - i.e. FF members - to counter increasing fuel costs and thus not have to cut the rest of our spending down to zilch.  Because if we all quit spending $, a second recession will be not only become a reality - it will be much more painful than the last.

Back in '08 the Doc and I sought to mitigate our costs by buying a Prius -parking the Excursion and F450 unless we absolutely had to drive them.  Even after the car payment, we're still $ ahead over what we would have spent on fuel alone at $4.00 per gallon.  I pay a lot more attention to my driving habits now too; and rarely jump down hard on the throttle in any of my vehicles so as to reduce fuel consumption. 

We also started grouping our trips, and picking up things for one another so as to minimize our needs to travel.  If we could not get the other to pick something up, we would schedule our trips so that we could use the Prius as much as possible.  We buy a lot more items on-line if the UPS costs are less than our transportation costs would be.  This has a negative impact on local retailers, but at least we're still contributing some $ to the economy.

We are also paying much more attention to the country of origins for our purchases, and keeping the $ in North America whenever possible.  Wal-mart is a much more frequent destination for items now too.

I don't like the idea of being dependent upon the Govt to make things work out, and thus figured that it would be beneficial to get a discussion going amongst our FF community on ways that we could positively impact our economy.

Thus, what ideas do y'all have regarding how best to mitigate increased fuel prices, so that we can keep our $ in circulation in our own economies?
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Tom

It's not just something that FF people can do to keep their money in circulation, it has to come from higher up.  Perhaps not from the Government, but it has to come from those who are doing the selling and managing.

You mention that ya'll bought the Prius and parked the 450.  Many of these guys strained at the pocket to get a 450 so that they could run a business and had no room for a second vehicle.   They had to use it to take the kids to school so that it would be there to haul the lumber, mill and slabs. 

Making Walmart a more frequent destination for many is just allowing them see the status that so much of America lives, where Walmart has been their high-end store.  Much of America doesn't even think of attending an outlet of more stature than Walmart and there are few stores where they can find lessor deals.  It's the Dollar Generals and Dollar Stores that circulate the dollars of the masses.

There is a big status difference in shopping for chuck steak in a Publix (status grocery) and having your steady diet being chuck roast from Piggly Wiggly and have to start buying chicken instead.

Our Governments Bureaucracies, like the DOT and USDA are the most instrumental in either shutting down the economy or allowing it to grow.  The red tape of Federal driving licenses, mandates for ridiculous amounts of insurance, rules and regulations of safety and the intimidation from inspections has shut down more small business than the thieves of Wall Street every dreamed of affecting.

You can't spend money that you don't have.  You can't have money if the means of earning it have been taken away.

We need, not only an administration change, but a philosophy change at the top.  Nit-picky laws that make the Gated-Community-people smile, need to become a thing of the past and the average man should be able to start and run a business with fewer Government hoops.

The philosophy of big business must change too.  These self-serving never-got-their-hands-dirty people who run the companies that are going off-shore without considering the damage they are doing to the Country are the ones who should be taxed out of existence.  There needs to be penalty for turning ones back on his country.

Local law enforcement as well as State and Federal Law Enforcement needs a wake-up call to remind them that they are there to protect the citizen from errant behavior, not to direct the general population as if they were directing auto traffic at a football game.

The average "Joe" needs to stand up on his own two feet and make an effort to support himself.  The needs of the Union are long gone and this "crap" in Wisconsin is the prime example of how many look upon their "right" to be given money, over their responsibility to do a job.

I don't fault any FF member for sticking his money in his pocket for a rainy day.  His hope is that he will be able to survive until a better day and better prices.  His only tool is to quit buying.  So far, his only view has been higher prices, higher taxes and a bigger Government thumb whose Bureaucracies threaten fines and incarceration.

I'm all for everybody pocketing their change.  :)

Mr Mom

We dont go anywhere and dont buy anthing that is not needed.
Trips become a famliy thing when one person goes to a store they call the night befor and see if anyone need anything.
Garden is getting bigger this spring.
Talked to several people about gas prices and if gas does hit 5.00 a gallon they will have to quit beacuse they make min wage and it is not worth it to work.

Thanks Alot Mr Mom


red oaks lumber

the average consumer doesn't spend budget wise that much on fuel costs. the last great recession we are slowly crawling out of was the perfect storm so to speak, the high fuel cost was the last weight that broke the back of the us economy.
everyone has to take their own finacials responiable ie; managable morgage,small or no vehicle payments basicaly living with their means so when we keep having rising fuel cost we aren't turned on our heads.
i feel until things are rolling better again places like walmart and other cheap import places will continue to thrive, if you only have a limited amount of cash in your pocket chances are you'll want to parlay your money for the most amount of goods you can. this action long turn doesn't help anyone but, try reasioning that when you are faced with that dilemia every week.
for me the constant rise in electric cost is the hardedst cost to some what keep control of, using 14,000 kw per month small increases add up how do i cut electic costs? ya don't run equipment but, not runniong eq. not making product not selling things ect.
until this country can real in all the greed,i don't think we will see any long stable growth in the economy. my parents were over last night for dinner and like alot of families across america the topic of the shape of our country is discussed, my dad who is 70 something said " i'm glad i'm at the end of my life not the begining" for a man that loves life like he does wow that is hard to swallow. but i't makes one think.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

tyb525

I too work min wage, at only 15 hours a week (can't get any more than that), and go to school. I get some income from sawing also, but nowhere near enough. It's pretty much all I can do to pay for cell phone, insurance, and gas. The cost of the gas to drive to work and back everyday is half of what I make per day, or more. There's no way I could afford to pay for rent at this point.

I've had to start doing pretty much anything I can to make money, things like hauling scrap, selling firewood, mowing, handyman work, and basically anything else I can do.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Doc Hickory

Whether the pink diaper crowd running DC like it or not, we are an economy which runs on oil. We need to develop a stable supply, stable both in production and price. During the Carter administration we got our first taste of being held captive by our own energy needs. There was no shortage of oil, just the determination by a cartel named OPEC to gouge for more money by limiting supply. The last price spike back in '08 was fueled by speculators and the outcry was to limit their ability to drive prices either up or down. Apparently the result of that outcry was exactly NOTHING. The ugly truth is that the developed world could give a rats rear end about the Middle East except the fact they have control of a commodity that we need.
Wall street and the bankers get their bailouts to the tune of billions of dollars. What does the average Joe get? The uncertainty that he'll even have a job next week and the likelihood that his retirement will both be delayed and be much more humble than his plans had foreseen. The little guy can do little more than ride out the storm, not having the wherewithall to affect things to a significant degree.
I'm shopping for clothes at the Goodwill Store. I look for the red mark down labels at the meat counter. Years ago I took $100.00 a week to live off of while trucking all week, now I take $60.00, and usually bring $20..of that back home with me. I don't eat high on the hog, and as a matter of fact, I'm having a little trouble remembering what the hog looked like. I harp at people to cut the lights out when they leave a room. I scrounge for parts to build the things I can't afford to buy. My wife has become the Queen of Couponville. We still have a roof over our heads, food in the cupboard, and the wolf isn't howling at the front door, but I did see him doing laps around the rose trellis this morning. In 2008 I had my best year ever, and I worked for every dime of it. In 2009 I took a $7,000.00 wage cut. In 2010 I took another $7,000.00 wage cut. I figure in a ferw more years I'll have to write my company a check for the privelege of working there. Every well has a bottom, and I'm sucking mud. I'm not alone in this mess, either. My kids are grown, all but one has flown the nest. I don't know how young families and those who are the 'working poor'' are surviving.
Both major political parties are just that, concerned about their party and not the nation. This country has forgotten that everyone has to live, not just the well heeled fortunate. Corruption runs rampant and the bad guys never seem to do any time in the big house. Why should the common man respect the law when the law turns a blind eye to corruption? It's a recipe for anarchy.
The USA is a republic, a system based on law. If that bedrock of law is eroded, the contract between the governed and the governors fails, all bets are off.
I'm not the oldest person here by a stretch but I've lived long enough to learn a few things. Politicians trot out the Constitution and the Bible right before election time. When they get elected (or re-elected), they put them both away until the next election cycle. I've found the Bible and the Constitution work every time they're applied. Our system needs a major tune-up, and it's our responsibility to turn the wrenches.
Feed a fire, starve a termite...

Ironwood

We have always lived VERY resourcefully (cheap). We often chuckle about how are thriftyness is now in fashion. I could go on and on, I wont belabor the point, we're TIGHT. Our monthy living expenses are minimal, biggest bill is high quality daycare for the two youngest, it is steep, but finite. couple more years. Utilities are low, home heating is silly low (well insulated smaller house), taxes VERY low, house payment low (most folks car payment in the "burbs"). I have institiuted a no credit card policy for myself, wifey doesnt have one anyhow. I am paying down my balance. I have purchased several capital assets in the last year, they are long term vision type purchases. They are due to newer machines (trucks) having $$$ computers that will go bad and cost BIG $$$. I bought two 2000-2002 trucks that are long term "wisdom" moves for the money I paid.

Scott, the double dip is here, we are thrify as ever. I still find opportunity, just think a little smaller, a little more local. Watch where I drive, maximize.

Tom,

"Many of these guys strained at the pocket to get a 450 so that they could run a business and had no room for a second vehicle.   They had to use it to take the kids to school so that it would be there to haul the lumber, mill and slabs."

WATCHET buster :D I haul kids in F-350 (Shinn's), or either of two 550's  :D

Things are still moving for me, mostly commercial build out, supply side stuff for me. There is little discretionary spending. Money is a steady flow, but not nearly what it used to be. Things will come back, but it will take years.

Ironwood

There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Gary_C

Quote from: scsmith42 on March 13, 2011, 03:40:08 PM
Thus, what ideas do y'all have regarding how best to mitigate increased fuel prices, so that we can keep our $ in circulation in our own economies?


Best thing to do is avoid pessimism, at all costs and look for ways to make money.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

mrcaptainbob


mrcaptainbob

My wife has never been one to do coupons. She's changed her habit on that. And we do often check with the neighbors when making a run to town for anything. I've been in that mode for the last eight years because of where we live. It's no longer an eight minute jaunt to the box store. The nearest one of those is now twenty five minutes...one way. So when I'm in 'town', there's a shopping list of parts. When I visit family or friends in the city, there's a shopping list. Oh yeah...and in my County (Jackson, Michigan) the gas is always a minimum nine cents more a gallon. Usually between thirteen and nineteen. So when I go out of the county, many empty gas cans go with me. Food-wise, we do have a fair sized garden. And the neighbors are developing their own, too. A local farmer had a small supply of sweet corn seed in left in the hopper and was kind enough to plow up and plant about an acre for us all. His workers, and the few residents in the area helped themselves over the harvest of that. We still are enjoying the cobs at this late date! We also share our bounty with each other. Some grow potatoes, others are successful at squash. We trade and give the excess to family and friends. I was born and raised in Detroit and am pleased with where I am now at. A much better way to live!

LOGDOG

Two words: NATURAL GAS ....seriously. We have an enormous amount of the stuff. It'd be decades before we even put a dent in our supply, thus the extremely low price of Nat Gas at sub $4.00/per mcf for far too long. There's no demand relative to our supply. In 2008 it seemed like every Shale play in the USA came out of the woodworks. Suddenly we have a glut of Nat Gas.

We need an Energy Policy that includes Natural Gas ASAP! We need to stop fighting these wars in the middle east, trying to stabilize these countries and protect their oil resources and instead spend the billions and perhaps trillions of dollars that we're spending on these wars on tax incentives for America's business owners and citizens to switch over to Natural Gas wherever possible. For whatever reason, Obama just hates the words "Natural Gas" and avoids them wherever possible. I've only caught him say them 2 maybe 3 times max in his discourses.

Natural Gas is the only bridge fuel we have capable of fueling heavy truck traffic. Heavy truck traffic is said to account for 25% of our oil consumption. Take 25% of America's demand for oil off the market and see what happens to the price. We're 5% of the world's population using 25% of the world's oil. We can power our electric generation plants with Nat Gas. Coal and Nat Gas are competing for that market currently. We need to get Nat Gas competing for the transportation market and unleaded/diesel consumption. Stop turning our food into fuel. Ethanol is ridiculous and the numbers are all wrong on it.

The infrastructure necessary to support the demand for Nat Gas will create jobs. We need pipelines to transport the Nat Gas. Stations and pumps to distrubute it, drilling equipment and personnel to bring it online, steel producers making pipe and fittings, lots of trucking getting everything where it's going, manufacturing new autos to run on CNG ....... the layers of employment that it would bring are unbelieveable. Not to mention the spending. Starting with Oil and Gas companies leasing the land for drilling from landowners in America. Followed by royalties to American taxpayers not Saudi Sheiks with 500' yachts.

America needs to wake up and realize that tomorrow tends to get here faster than you expect it. It's time we re-tool America's energy consumption. Right now. That's our first step towards keeping our money at home. If we can throw money in the garbage for "Cash for Clunkers" I think we can justify re-tooling America for the sake of energy independence.

Not sure if any of you heard Donald Trump on Rush the other day but he was awesome. I'm not normally a huge Trump fan but he totally nailed it. He says, "How the heck are we supposed to create jobs when every thing we buy is "made" in China or somewhere else? We're not making things here like we used to and we're buying more from other Countries than we ever have." Amen brother.

His next point was this, (paraphrased but basically) "Why do we keep defending all these other countries on our dime in return for nothing? He talked about South Korea and us sending ships over there to stablize that whole situation with North Korea. Why are we involved? It costs a $100,000.00 just to turn the engines on in one of our warships. He said South Korea should be writing us a check for $100 million dollars for the protection we provided them." I tend to agree.  I'm all for protecting our borders and keeping trouble out but not this chasing around looking to get involved in situations. I understand we need to be able to export goods and that it's a large part of our existing economy and that stability in other nations plays a role in this but we're way out of balance on military expenditures for countries that will never be fixed. Spend money blowing these countries up and then spend more taxpayer dollars re-building them. How about we spend money on block grants in America's cities instead?

There's a saying that "a fool and his money are soon parted". That saying unfortunately fits a lot of America, not all but a lot including and especially the Government.

So the way to stay healthy and sane in this environment? Pay down debt. Yes America's economy is one that's built on and dependant on consumer spending but the model is a tad broken at the moment. Us spending into it is like taking a leak on a forest fire. We're not going to put out the fire and we stand a good chance of getting burned. Be a 5%'er. Do the opposite of what most are doing. Pay down debt, save, buy tangible investments, maybe even some gold and silver. Make it a point to do business with those in your circle whenever possible. My chiropractor told me he's a member of a business group of professionals. They tracked it once and they found that a dollar exchanged hands inside their group 11 times before it left the loop. There are ways we can do that in our lives. I'm not saying go all "protectionist" or anything like that. But realize this, mankind has been around for thousands of years, depending on your beliefs maybe 6000 'ish years. Only in the last 200 or so have we seen mankind excel and invent technology that would change our lives. In that 200 years it's extremely noteworthy to chart it and look at what segment changed the markets the most. This would be the early 90's or so forward when the internet was coming on line. All of a sudden information was available like never before and we experienced an accelerated state of growth in a very short period of time and this was reflected by indexes like the S&P 500. So a lots happened since then. What we need to ask ourselves is, "What could possibly change our world in a monumental way, and to the extent which the internet changed our world and the stock market?" Thinking ........ thinking .......not much. It would take something huge. I don't know what it is but I do know that advances in Energy could play a major part. In the meatime, don't look for the stock market to make a bull run for 14,000 on the Dow anytime soon. 13% of America is on food stamps and housing prices just bottomed in most of the major metro areas again about 2 weeks ago with a couple million foreclosures just waiting to topple real soon. This isn't fixed by a long shot. And QE2 is fixin to end on June 30th I believe. Wait until the Fed goes soft on buying $1.7 Trillion dollars in Treasury Bonds that are currently creating this artificial liquidity in the marketplace. I doubt there is going to be a QE3 and without it money is going to tighten up quick and the economy with it. It's funny money. Bill Gross, CEO of PIMCO Funds, named "Fixed Income Fund Manager of the Decade" runs the world's largest Bond Fund, PIMCO's Total Return Bond Fund. He just dumped all of his Treasuries from the portfolio at the beginning of this week. He feels like when the Fed stops buying them at the end of June the market will go soft (due to lack of buyers and the price of Treasuries will drop like a rock. At which time he'd probably buy them back on the cheap and when money tightens, the market starts to go to h***, people are going to run to safety and buy Treasuries like they did in 2008 and 2009. Bill didn't have one negative year in the fund in the last 10 years. He doesn't get it wrong too often. Think about what that Fund witnessed over the last 10 years and yet showed a return year after year. Lots of ugly.

Gary makes an excellent point. Stay positive. It helps. Work harder and smarter. Invest in educating yourself. It'll pay big dividends. And maybe, just maybe get a little p*ssed off. I find I'm very efficient when I'm upset. I can bang out the work. There's nothing wrong with being upset with the things we see. Change them where you can influence them. VOTE! America's politics are messed up. Need to clean house up there in D.C.  

Also, don't be afraid to switch gears if what your doing isn't paying the bills. Do what it takes. Team up with others if the load is too heavy on your own.

Incorporate your business to protect against liability in the event of the unexpected.

Need to lower peoples taxes so we can spend those dollars into the economy instead of spending them into a balck hole called the U.S. Government who insists on spending those dollars on countries that loathe us. I could go on and on but I'll stop. Time for some sleep. This got longer than I intended.

LOGDOG

One more thing .... let people know that their business is important to you and you appreciate it. Tell them that if there's a way you can do business with them don't hesitate to ask. It'll help create loyalty. I know I personally make spending decisions based on who does business with me and I tell them why they're getting my business.

DanG

Keep on keeping on.  Keep your life as near normal as you can, except for travel.  Stay at home as much as possible and make every trip count to the max.  Reduced consumption is what it will take to bring fuel prices back down.  While you're staying home, produce something you can sell directly to your neighbors for less than they would normally have to pay, while still making a little money for yourself.  Food is the obvious biggie here.  Even a modest sized garden can produce more than a family can eat and fresh produce is way, way overpriced in the supermarkets.  You could sell most stuff for half what they charge and still make money.  You could also barter some of it for some things you didn't plant.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Kansas

I really don't see a big return to consumer spending. A modest rise in it yes, but not a big one. Our population is aging. And older people simply don't spend as much. Most people in their 60s and 70s aren't going to build a new house. The one obvious exception is health care spending as a population ages.

I don't think we will have a double dip recession. And so much of what oil does is out of our control. Even if we had all the oil we needed, it will sell at market price that the world sets, not us. If we have a good way out of this, its more exports than anything. Our population may be getting older, but some countries are getting younger, or staying stable. And the standard of living is growing overseas. The other option is more immigration. That won't happen for at least as long as the unemployment rate is high. But that will change. And 30 year olds spend money, plus pay into SS and Medicare.

Ron Wenrich

When things hit the fan back in '08, I said there was going to be a paradigm shift.  That means that the way things were in the past are not going to be the way things are in the future.  People have changed their consumption habits and borrowing habits.  Frugal living will become the way to live for the next several years.  I don't see the consumer going deep into debt nor rely on increasing home prices to cover that debt.  Business won't be the same.

But, what I see is that the world no longer considers the US the center of the universe.  Unfortunately, the people in the US haven't changed that view.  The consumption of oil in the US is down 5% from 2007 levels.  Prices are up, because we no longer are driving the engine for more energy demand.  China is driving that, and they can afford to pay more.  India is also putting more people into the middle class and are demanding more energy.  Those 2 countries are not in recession.  They are driving the market more than the US.  Same goes for the precious metal markets and food.   Investment money is also pouring into the Orient.  There's better return on the investment there.

I don't know if we'll slip back into recession.  I think the economy is simply going to grind forward.   
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Cedarman

Being frugal always pays off.  I will raise prices as needed.  Being in a niche market allows me to set prices except when I am selling into a commodity market.  Business is brisk and to the point I am turning it away.  I am still in debt, about 1/3 of what it was 6 years ago and going down fast.  Our markets are very diversified, some like raised garden beds are hot. Others like cedar chests are not. 
Having a network of people that you can rely on and they on you will be very beneficial.  Having a budget and knowing where your money goes is the most important thing to have.  Without knowing what you spend money on, you have no way of deciding priorities.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

CX3

Heres what we have been doing to pinch a few pennies. 
We opened 2 new checking accounts, one for me, one for wife, and put 25 dollars a week in each. That is the only money we each get for eating out for lunch, sodas, etc.  Gas comes out of the main account.  You would not believe the money that adds up just because you are so much more careful because you only have 25 bucks to blow all week. 

We also try to keep the crew cab parked unless we just have to use it. 
We buy our vehicle insurances 6 months at a time now.  That saves about 600 a year. 

Simple things make a big difference sometimes.
I also recommend the Dave Ramsey Financial Peace seminar. We are taking it at church now its great. 
John 3:16
You Better Believe It!

Ron Wenrich

Just curious why you need a checking account.  I can do the same thing by putting $25 in my pocket, and when its gone, you can't spend anymore.  I use cash.  Its not a number in someone's book or screen.  It doesn't need to be swiped, and I know its immediately taken from my account. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Larry

My morning shopping trip today.

My little Ford tractor needs a water pump.  The Ford parts man priced me a New Holland pump for $170 but he recommended an aftermarket pump for $112 to save a bit of money.  Neither were in stock, but he could have either one here in a couple of days.  Add to that cost tax, fuel, and lost time to pick it up.

Quick check online and I found several at the $100 mark and one at $79.  I called that dealer and negotiated the price to $64 because I also found somebody selling them on eBay for that price.  Shipping cost was $12.

I sprung for the cheap one and saved a few dollars.  Took about an hour to comparison shop.

I've been thinking too much.  I figure my vote don't make any difference in a national election with a few million other votes.  About the same in a state election.  In local elections my vote and my voice may make a big difference.  So...I'm supporting any and all school bond elections and keeping a close eye on the school board.  I hope if we get all these kids educated they stay off the dole, and do a better job managing the country than my generation has done.  Need some really smart people to take care of me when or if I get old. ;D
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Tom

But your Federal vote does count, Larry.   If yours doesn't, whose does?   We need to hang onto any little piece of the string we can grab a hold. :)

CX3

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on March 14, 2011, 05:59:50 PM
Just curious why you need a checking account.  I can do the same thing by putting $25 in my pocket, 

I understand your point.  We just like the idea of every monday it automatically gets put in there, I dont have to hassle with cashing a check or going to the bank.  And I like the idea of a debit card, even though a guy cant see the money dwindling away like you can with a wallet full of cash.  And we also like to look online and we can "see" where we spent that money.  It makes you think twice about going back to mcdonalds when you see youve already been there 5 times that week!
John 3:16
You Better Believe It!

SwampDonkey

I keep very little cash in my wallet, it stays right in the bank until I use my card, which has no fees whatsoever on Interact transactions, cheque writing, or taking out cash at their machine. I also pay no fees for an account. Every week a set amount transfers from chequing into my savings, plus I often transfer extra on top of it.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Brucer

A couple of years ago I got to talking with a friend. She commented on her fears about the economy, fuel prices, and climate change. Then she said, "I guess you think I'm over-reacting a bit". I told her I thought she was under-reacting if anything. And that little conversation had some interesting results.

She ran for city council and got elected. Then she began working with volunteers to figure out how to capture the knowledge from some of us "more experienced" folks and pass it on to a younger generation.

There is now a community garden for those people who don't have space of their own to cultivate. I was happy to contribute slabs, off-spec lumber, etc.

Last year they had a series of garden tours of the more successful gardens in the area -- we host one of those. It may not sound like a big deal to you folks in the sunbelt, but growing season is pretty short up here. (This has been a mild winter, so today after 4 days of rain there is only 2-1/2 feet of snow on my woodshed roof.) A lot of the younger people figure you just can't grow vegetables here. They kinda got their eyes opened last year.

This year there's been a series of discussions put on by local people that grew up pretty much living on their own resources. That's been an eye-opener for many young people, too.

Just recently we had a workshop on making houses for solitary bees. (Materials contributed by yours truly). You can really see the difference in things like strawberries when there are a lot of pollinators around.

Barbs a master knitter and she's been running knitting classes at the local yarn shop. Her friend Trish teaches soap-making through the recreation department.

The interesting thing is how it has brought our natural sense of community to a whole new level.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Ron Wenrich

There are other ways to expand your horizons if you're doing community gardening.  One is SPIN farming.  That's some really intensive farming on small acreage.  You should be able to do short growing season crops at the community level.  http://spinfarming.com/

You can extend your growing season by the use of greenhouse or tube structures.  I'm thinking of doing that here.

The other is container gardening.  Instead of a big garden, you just grow small amounts of crops in containers in your backyard. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

SwampDonkey

Not too many places in the country you can't grow a garden, some places need a little protection from frost or raised beds if it's wet climate, but you can grow stuff. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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