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Author Topic: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?  (Read 12950 times)

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Offline CX3

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2011, 03:16:59 pm »
Just curious why you need a checking account.  I can do the same thing by putting $25 in my pocket, 

I understand your point.  We just like the idea of every monday it automatically gets put in there, I dont have to hassle with cashing a check or going to the bank.  And I like the idea of a debit card, even though a guy cant see the money dwindling away like you can with a wallet full of cash.  And we also like to look online and we can "see" where we spent that money.  It makes you think twice about going back to mcdonalds when you see youve already been there 5 times that week!
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2011, 04:22:21 pm »
I keep very little cash in my wallet, it stays right in the bank until I use my card, which has no fees whatsoever on Interact transactions, cheque writing, or taking out cash at their machine. I also pay no fees for an account. Every week a set amount transfers from chequing into my savings, plus I often transfer extra on top of it.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline Brucer

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2011, 12:38:06 am »
A couple of years ago I got to talking with a friend. She commented on her fears about the economy, fuel prices, and climate change. Then she said, "I guess you think I'm over-reacting a bit". I told her I thought she was under-reacting if anything. And that little conversation had some interesting results.

She ran for city council and got elected. Then she began working with volunteers to figure out how to capture the knowledge from some of us "more experienced" folks and pass it on to a younger generation.

There is now a community garden for those people who don't have space of their own to cultivate. I was happy to contribute slabs, off-spec lumber, etc.

Last year they had a series of garden tours of the more successful gardens in the area -- we host one of those. It may not sound like a big deal to you folks in the sunbelt, but growing season is pretty short up here. (This has been a mild winter, so today after 4 days of rain there is only 2-1/2 feet of snow on my woodshed roof.) A lot of the younger people figure you just can't grow vegetables here. They kinda got their eyes opened last year.

This year there's been a series of discussions put on by local people that grew up pretty much living on their own resources. That's been an eye-opener for many young people, too.

Just recently we had a workshop on making houses for solitary bees. (Materials contributed by yours truly). You can really see the difference in things like strawberries when there are a lot of pollinators around.

Barbs a master knitter and she's been running knitting classes at the local yarn shop. Her friend Trish teaches soap-making through the recreation department.

The interesting thing is how it has brought our natural sense of community to a whole new level.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw with two 6' extensions.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2011, 05:32:17 am »
There are other ways to expand your horizons if you're doing community gardening.  One is SPIN farming.  That's some really intensive farming on small acreage.  You should be able to do short growing season crops at the community level.  http://spinfarming.com/

You can extend your growing season by the use of greenhouse or tube structures.  I'm thinking of doing that here.

The other is container gardening.  Instead of a big garden, you just grow small amounts of crops in containers in your backyard. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2011, 05:47:46 am »
Not too many places in the country you can't grow a garden, some places need a little protection from frost or raised beds if it's wet climate, but you can grow stuff. ;D

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline underdog

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2011, 12:03:06 pm »
Direct deposit and Debit cards have been great for us in many ways.
Add to that the power of the web to find the best deal for you and have it delivered to your door.
I rarely even go to town anymore. I load of fuel in my truck lasts for months ;D

Looks like the powers that be are out to put a stop to that.

> Illinois Governor Pat Quinn signed into law the "Mainstreet Fairness Bill"
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...ois_affil.html

> Debit card interchange fees and the federal government.
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/0...arm-consumers/
Seems the big box stores are just exstatic about it.

 

Offline Patty

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2011, 01:02:37 pm »
The links in the post above did not work for me.

When Illinois passed the Fairness Bill, it meant that Amazon would have to charge sales tax on items sold through it's Illinois entities. Amazon reacted exactly the way they said they would react................they closed all their Illinois entities.

So that bill actually hurt the state more than helped, in my opinion. What a surprise.
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2011, 05:31:02 pm »
Our state is going to put a new line on our income tax forms.  Its to remit all the sales tax that you were supposed to pay, but you didn't because you bought out of state or on line.  They figure they'll get $340 million.  I figure most people will say $0.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2011, 05:56:22 pm »
The feds get their cut here in Canada, the 5% GST is on all purchases no matter where your at in the country. The Province put the tax on at the border crossings (13%) some years ago, so your paying the state side tax, then hit by the tax man when you come home with purchases. I never figured it was fair to tax that way. When your in another state or province, you pay their tax because your using their infrastructure not your home province or state.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline pigman

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2011, 07:51:09 pm »
Ron, our state tax forms have had that line for several years. So far, I have never found anyone that has put anything but 0 on that line. I am sure there are some that  have put down a number, it's just I haven't found them yet.
Of course I report all my out of state purchases for sales tax purposes. ;)
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

Offline Busy Beaver Lumber

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2011, 08:57:24 pm »
Unfortunately, for the masses, nothing will change or get better for them because they hold on to the old, outdated models of how wealth is built.

The way you are taught in school is to work hard, and put your money in the bank to get interest and watch your saving grow. What a vessel of dung ::)

How many people do you know that got rich accepting a 2% to 3% rate of return on their money, only to have to give about one third of that to the federal and state government at tax time, thus further lowering your actual rate of return.

In accounting, there is what is know as the "rule of 70". Simply stated, if you want to know how long it will take you to double your money at a given interest rate, take the number 70 and divide it by the interest rate to get a rough estimate in years as to how long it will take to double your money

For example if the interest rate is 2% and you want to know how long it would take 1 dollar to double to 2 dollars, take 70/2 = 35 years. Thats right, at 2% interest it takes almost 35 years to double your money.

So what then is the alternative?

Investing   ::) as opposed to saving :'(

If you want to build wealth, you need to actively seek out opportunities that allow you to earn a higher rate of return on the capital you have to invest. Here are just a few examples of investing as opposed to saving:

Investing:
1. Buying and selling Stocks - With a modest amount of research and using the avilable on-line tools, even a novice can quickly learn how to pick stocks that do better than a 2% return. With some practice, double digit return are definately achievable

2. Buying and reselling Merchandise of any kind - Every day I scour ebay and craigslist in search of items that can be bought and resold at a profit. I do the same at auctions, garage sales, and flea markets. The potential here is huge. I have bought coins for as little as 30 cents a piece and had them sell on ebay for well over $100 a piece. I recently bought a 1913S type 2 buffalo nickel at an estate sale for 50 cents and sold it for $325 two days later. These are not 2% returns on an investment but rather returns in the thousands percentage range and these returns are earned in a matter of days as opposed to an entire year. And yes, I do practice what I preach. At the current time i have of 450 coins for sale on ebay and there is not a single one listed that will not at least tripple the investment I have into it and many will give me a return of between 300 to 1000%. Over the years I have bought and sold everything from tools to jewelry and everything in between.

It is not as hard as many make it seam and can be done at many different levels. You can start buying and selling at whatever level you can afford, then roll those profits into more buying and selling activities. Even if you start doing it with $50 a month, before you know it, you are soon dealing in thousands of dollars a month worth of transactions and very health returns as opposed to the bank rates

3. Invest in Capital Equipment - It is not hard at all to find a piece of equipment that can earn you a better return than putting that same money in the bank. Lets say you had two choices (1) put $3000 in the bank or (2) use $3000 to buy an LT-10 sawmill. If you put the $3000 in the bank, at the end of the year, at a whopping 2% return, you will have roughly $3006 dollars, of which you will give about $2 to uncle sam. On the other hand, lets say you buy the mill. It would take you all of 10 minutes to cut a walnut board that would earn you say 30 cents a board foot and equal the same return you get by letting the bank use your money all year. The beauty of this is you have the other 364.9 days of the year left to keep making money with the same $3000 investment in the mill and you retain that capability for ever. This is how wealth is built and this is the difference between investing and saving.

It is also how you make it through a recession with easy and not have to switch from eating steaks to eating macaroni and cheese.


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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2011, 06:03:32 am »
Buying and selling = speculation.  Buy low and sell high.  Buying with the expectation that prices will go higher.  Its a good way to wealth.  Although, in stocks, you can buy with an expectation of a return in dividends and hold for a longer time period.  That is more like investing vs speculation.  Most stocks are sold on speculation than on return. 

Capital investing is where you expect to get a return on the use of the capital.  But, you also have to have other capital investments and labor to go with it.  Your walnut log wasn't free, nor was your time.  The difference in return is that of risk.  The higher the risk, the greater the return.  You just need more winners than losers. 

But, another good way is to spend less than you take in.  Too many people have gone into debt way over their heads and when the income stream is reduced, they still have obligations.  They also buy things that they don't really need.  All those do-dads and gadgets usually come with a monthly package of some sort that needs to be paid. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2011, 07:33:48 am »
I've seen people that couldn't afford it, get a phone with all the add on packages you could get. When asked why, the usual answer is "it's the one thing in life I feel I am entitled to." Kinda like having a roof over your head. :D

Personally I just about to the point of pulling internet, it's gone up in January again for Dial-up, by $4 bucks. It's now $33 to have basic internet in this province. First signed up it was $14. Company got acquired 2 times since being a crown corporation and price has more than doubled. I think Canada has become the most expensive place to use internet. I bet it's a lot less in Egypt and broadband to boot.  ::)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline scsmith42

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2011, 09:49:29 am »
My thanks to all for sharing their ideas in response to my original posting - both about ways to conserve precious funds  as well as more wide ranging thoughts regarding the trends and dynamics of the economy and how best to prosper.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the importance of having the attitude that one will persevere and prosper.  On a daily basis we get bombarded with so many negatives - the price of fuel and food rising, significant unemployment, reduced business, worldwide tragedies, etc.  To me, surviving hard times requires more discipline and focus than that which is required to survive good times.

It seems to me that the foundation for surviving hard times is attitude.  An Attitude that says "I will not quit; I will never accept defeat".  An attitude that states "If you knock me down, I'll get up again and keep on trying until I prevail".  An attitude that states "I'll never quit looking for opportunities or ideas to help me survive hard times and even prosper through them.
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Offline Ironwood

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2011, 08:10:01 am »
Check out Charles Swindoll, "attitude" I have this quote only second to the Wayne Dyer one at the bottom of my postings

Ironwood

Attitude
by Charles Swindoll [wikipedia.org]
The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life.

Attitude, to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness, or skill. It will make or break a company ... a church ... a home.

The remarkable thing is we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past. We cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable.

The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude ... I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me, and 90% how I react to it. And so it is with you ... we are in charge of our Attitudes
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline Ironwood

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2011, 10:19:10 am »
BusyBeaver,

 You hit the nail on the head. We had a insurance guy here once (we need it for the young ones if we pass), he was giving me the "pitch" and aid how one CFO was fully invested in the idea of investing thru the insurance company for a fixed return.  ::) Just 'cause one CFO is stupid doesnt mean I need to be!

  I invest here, in things where my expertise is. We have a few "unconventional" investments, like the "Iron Bank". The Bank is the largest true wrought iron pile in North America (that we and blacksmith trade know of). We are the offical supplier to Colonial Williamsburg, and Mount Vernon. Quality and consistancy is key, and ours has both. This has been an outstanding investment. Outside of one supplier in Yorkshire England who is repuddling historic iron we are the best gig around, AND we're on this side of the Pond.

 I bring a "non traditional" approach and my wife brings alot of more traditional approach, for us it has been a wonderful balance. I do need to be careful, as I see opportunity in most anything.  :D


 Ron,

 Pa has had the "USE TAX" line on our sales tax forms for years, and it is such a grey area that is a bit un-nerving. I have been know to call a few State Sales tax folks for clarity on issues. It reminds me of the mis-understood, randomly enforced DOT regs. Dont even get me started.  >:(
 Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline DanG

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2011, 11:17:25 am »
I made a move yesterday toward preservation of the personal coffers, and reduction of our energy "footprint."  Our minivan crapped out several months ago.  It is repairable, but at an expense I can't afford right now.  We have been forced to rely on the one-wheel drive, 12mpg Dodge truck.  Yesterday I got a call from a buddy who knew of a deal on an economical car.  I ended up paying $600 for a '93 Toyota van that allegedly gets 28mpg.  It has lots of miles on it but runs well.  Tires are practically new.  It doesn't look all that bad, except that it started out ugly. ::) :D  I figure it will pay for itself in fuel savings alone in about 3 months.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2011, 12:57:28 pm »
Dang, I went out to the Piggy Roast and back last year for $400 including two hotel stays in Ottawa. Oh, and you might recall it was a Toyota RAV4. ;) Picked up a free saw, so the trip was free. :D ;)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline Larry

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2011, 10:05:27 pm »
Some thirty or forty years ago we couldn't afford a clothes dryer.  I welded up some galvanized pipe, and put up some old galvanized phone wire for a clothes line.  As our prosperity improved over the years, we could afford a dryer but Kathy still used the clothes line at times.  We made several moves and each time over my objections, Kathy had me dig up the clothes line poles and move them also.

Today I planted them in Arkansas and hope this is there final resting place.  With the concrete I used over the years they must weigh a 1,000 pounds.  We can easily afford a dryer now...just canít afford the lectricity to run it.  We got a good spring fed crick to and a washboard.....



I betcha all those folks in those gated subdivisions have clothes lines...thatís why they have the gates, so nobody can see there laundry. ;D
Larry

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Offline Tom

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Re: How can we mitigate the potential for a double dip recession?
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2011, 10:19:34 pm »
Naw they don't either  :D

You can't help but love a gal that will use a clothesline.  I don't care what the salesmen say, sheets and underwear just feel cleaner after they've spent a day in the sun.
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