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Best way to thin small pine trees?

Started by gdk771, March 03, 2011, 02:45:19 AM

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gdk771

I am purchasing some land that was clear cut 4-5 years ago.  There are a large amount of small pine trees around 4 to 6 feet tall that have come up that I would like to try and thin before it grows into a clumped mess.  I have heard of a brown tree cutter that can be attached to a tractor but have also heard you have to add armor to the tractor to protect the undercarriage.  I have also seen bush hog type attachments for skid steers.  Does anyone have any suggestions on the best way to thin this out?  I need something that is compact enough to maneuver around in  and thin the trees with.






SwampDonkey

This is the most economical, but physically challenging at times. ;D That far south, your going to want to do it in the winter months. Too hot in your summers.



This is in New Brunswick. This is mixed growth, don't hit any softwood for a few yards back from the road.  In New Brunswick 100's a professionals thin stands of young trees on public land and private woodlots.


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Here is a combination of machine and brush saw in Pine in Va. from another forum thread.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,42577.0.html
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Don K

I'm sure WDH will chime in with some good advice, but I have seen areas like this thin itself some naturally and in a few yrs a thinning crew will finish it. We had a similar plot that naturally seeded and it has been thinned twice and has a good spacing for some good sawlog growth now.

Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Ianab

My first thought was along the lines of SD's , get in there with some power tools and thin / prune by hand.

But before that, what's your long term objective here?

Long term timber production?
Hunting area?

Something else?

Once we know what your are trying to achieve it's easier to advise.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

banksiana

I agree with last guy.  Figure out objective.  Get in there and see how many trees per acre you have.  Consult literature on species management to see what your target trees per acre should be.  Then treat it if you need to.  It doesn't look over stocked in those pictures.   

SwampDonkey

I also agree with you guys. But, as far as thick, don't overlook the hardwood not leafed out yet. That can be a lot thicker when hardwood is counted. I can also tell ya that the first 50 m is always lighter than behind because of the machine travel. I will also say that if you concentrate on the management of the trees, in this case the spacing,quality and species selection for diversity, the wildlife will look after themselves. ;) Let's not get into a whole lot of other wildlife things because we have an even aged stand here which is uniform in age, height and canopy layer. I've yet to see the moose, grouse, song birds and rabbits die off from pre-commercial thinnings. :D The structure is not likely inviting to a woodpecker nor an eagle for example. ;) If I were anyone doing thinning on my own ground, I would manage it for more than one species. And I have done that for my own land, even though most was planted. I still favored and decent looking cedar, hardwood, aspen, or fir. That way I can go in there several times to access the faster growing species and later the longer lived slower species. I can have the benefits of not waiting so long to harvest trees again.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Magicman

First, Welcome gdk771, to the Forestry Forum.

As Don mentioned, 5 year old growth in Georgia will not be thinned by hand.  My take is to just let it grow.  A lot of natural thinning will take place.  When it reaches first thinning size, the feller will make rows.

If there are undesirable tree species, you can walk through and do a hack-n-squirt to rid them.

I just followed the above procedure on a volunteer 15 acre stand of pine/hardwood.  It was mechanically first thinned a couple of months ago.

WDH, where are you?   ;)
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WDH

Here I am, but y'all don't need me ;D.  Don's advice is spot on from what we can see in the pictures!

I, too, would leave it to grow and deal with the density and spacing at the first thinning in about 5-6 years.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

pineywoods

A brown tree cutter would indeed work well on that patch, but I agree with Don and Danny. Just eave it alone for 5 or 6 years and then thin. Mother nature will weed out the weaker trees and prune off the lower limbs. Watch the growth rate. When they stop growing, it's time to thin. We  have several old pastures that "went native" with volunteer pine. Probably will need 3 thinnings before it gets to sawlog size.
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banksiana

Tell me what the target species is and I will look up the research and explain how to calculate your current stocking.  You don't need to re-invent the wheel here, research can tell us optimum stocking for maximum growth and yield, we just need to punch in the numbers.  Often times if you let the stand self thin until merchantable, you can skip a pre-commercial thin and go right to profit or at least break even. 

SwampDonkey

4 to 6 feet is a little short. Appeared taller in the photos. Looked like 12 feet.  ::) But looks like your going to have a thick crop of hardwood in that pine though. I can't imagine hack and squirting on 15 acres of thick woods.  It would be endless. Maybe thick to me is a lot thicker than for others. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

gdk771

Thanks for the replies.  I primarily would like to thin it out so that someday perhaps I would have some harvestable timber but this is long term (15-20 years).  For now, I'd just like to thin it out enough so you can walk through it and/or hunt deer.  There are some large hardwoods which I plan to leave alone.  They were not cut and are in draws with creeks in them.  I'm going to try and go back there tomorrow and I'll take some more pictures.  I guess I was off on the height of the pine trees.  They may be more like 8-10 feet tall.  I'll take some close ups of the base of the trees as well to show the relative size.  Everything just came up volunteer on its own after the clear cutting.

WDH

On timber that size, it will be tough to see for hunting deer no matter what you do.  At least it is fine habitat for deer because there is a lot of food and cover for them. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

You wanna believe it. They can't even see you. :D How many times have I spooked a deer or a moose in a thicket, or a bear for that matter? ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Tom


Holmes

Welcome to the FF gdk771.  I reclaimed fields on my property with a { heavy duty} Woods 1100 pound 5' bush hog on the back of a 45hp tractor. I would slowly back thru the trees with the bush hog down and mow them.  The tractor does have a cab  which made it quieter and safer.   Holmes
Think like a farmer.

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Tom on March 03, 2011, 08:56:23 PM
Did you live, SD? :D

It will take a hike out of ya. Especially the oratory of an ugly moose, sounds just like a bear. :D That being said, most animals make a hasty retreat from Aliens. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

VT_Forestry

SD linked to my thread from earlier, so that's a pretty good idea on what my advice would be.  We've been having good success with cutting mechanical rows and then selecting manually with brushcutters.  This year we've been able to treat around 35 acres, all natural regen and thick (some stands are pushing 40,000 TPA).  The shredder is definitely the way to go in thick stuff, prior to it we used bushhogs and they did a pretty decent job, just left a lot of stubble to deal with for a few years afterwards.  On trees of those size, a bushhog would be adequate, some of the stuff we've been working on is a little older and 25ft tall so bushhog wold be struggling :)

Here are a few from the areas that we've done this year...



Forester - Newport News Waterworks

SwampDonkey

Sure is nice not to have boulders, wet spots, gullies and steep ground. :D :D :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

banksiana

VT_ what is your stems per acre down to now?  1500?  That 40,000 per acre is pretty much the same as a good regen count on aspen suckers up in the north.  I can see any kind of pine stagnating soon and needs to be pre-commercially thinned with those numbers.

SwampDonkey

I've never seen aspen that thick, unless it was the first 3 years. We don't thin pure aspen stands, but the thickest I've seen at 10 years was 25,000 /ha  not per acre. Hardwood around 25-60,000 st/ha. Fir,red spruce 25-100,000 st/ha (no room for your feet).
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Tom

If you want to smell something really, really good, Go stand in a freshly thinned plantation of young pines as VTForester has depicted.   You won't want to go home.  ;D

SwampDonkey

Should try yellow birch, a mint candy factory. ;D ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

gdk771

I haven't had a chance to count the pines per acre yet.  I have about 30 acres I would like to clear.  I took some more pictures today and have posted them.  I'll try to get a count next week.  It is pretty thick.  Thanks for all the useful advice.  I'm really glad I found this forum!





 






Don K

That looks about normal for a self seeded cutover to me. It wouldn't be so dadblame thick if it wasn't for the briars, sweetgums and other hardwoods that get a jump on the young pines. A lot of that stuff dies back if the pines ever shade the ground and blanket it with straw.
Even the cutovers that are planted here after a burn will look like that in 5 or 6 years because large companies typically don't go back and do any other controls. Their next control measure is a feller buncher at the first thinning. There is some much self seeding and even at the right time of harvest there are lots of pine seed on the ground ripe for a spring sprout.

Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

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