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A more durable driveway

Started by tyb525, March 01, 2011, 01:49:05 PM

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tyb525

We have a 1/4 mile gravel lane. Every 2 or 3 years we have to bring in more gravel, because eventually it turns to dust and gets really sloppy when it rains. This has been going on since the farm was here (100+years) I'd guess. We put a new culvert in last spring, and when I dug down with the backhoe there was probably 16" to 2 feet of crushed rock, sand basically.

We get #6 crusher run with fines, and we have tried without fines also and seem to get similar results.

I figured many of you would have experience with this, so what I'm asking is what is a good thing to put down that will last longer?

I was thinking maybe put down some large stones and fill in with #6? Or I've also seen recycled asphalt used, does that last a long time and is it expensive?
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Norm

Is this limestone you're using now Ty?

talldog

Reclaimed asphalt is super.Its also quite expensive.I had it put on my drive a couple years ago.No mud,instant packing,no dust,and it melts snow and ice away quite quickly when the sun shines

Bandmill Bandit

The reclaimed asphalt is about as close as you can get to asphalt. It packs well and the sun and heat will actually help it to re-bond and seal your lane. The sealing is the real key. You can add sealer to it to get a better finished seal after couple of months of hot weather as well.

Normal traffic will deposit mud and other earth common materials on top of your gravel which over time builds up and mixes in with your gravel. This is the main reason you need to add clean gravel on top. If you could do a vertical clean cut you would  probably be able to count the layers and see how much the lane has built up over the years. Almost like the growth rings of a tree.  

The asphalt product will seal the surface so that normal rain fall will help to wash the contaminate material to the sides. Just make sure you build a slight crown into your lane BEFORE you lay down the recycled asphalt. You will be much happier with the result.

I know it is more expensive but you get what you pay for. 3 inch minimum is what I would recommend.

FYI   I am assuming a very well built minimum 18 to 24 inch base laid down in in 4 to 6 inch lifts and compacted to 90% before surface material is applied.

TYB in your case I am pretty sure that you will have at least that already in place as a result of the years your lane has been in use. The county grader will be able to crown the drive way for you if the county allows for that. Geo tech material is a good idea but I only use it conditions of unstable or boggy/surface spring locations to keep the silt contaminates from rising into the the road bed substrate with the rise and fall of the surface water table.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

tyb525

Limestone is what we currently use. And it has worked a crown in the middle of the years anyways, but we always get puddles in the tracks.

Sounds like the recycled asphalt is the way to go, I wasn't sure how well it would pack.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Ironwood

Actually, I have a 3/4 mile long regrind asphalt drive, it is over mostly solid bedrock.

IF, I were starting with anything less than a bedrock base I would use Geomatting (your common cheap skate could use synthetic carpet from your local dumpster outside the carpet shop) lay it down under the gravel, then put the regrind on top. The regrind is AWSOME, it just needs a VERY good base. You dont want the spring frost creating a soft base that then cracks your new "asphalt".  I used really old "green" home heating oil (green algae) to reemulsify the tar in the regrind. rolled it with HEAVY forklift and a roller HEAVY w/ vibratory action (one case of beer, priceless) Been down for.......5 years or so. Great stuff. I 'll bet I have spread 20 triaxles worth, and another 10-14 tandems in a pile we draw from when needed.

           Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Radar67

I have been studying on driveways recently. I have 900 feet of clay that I have to build my road over. Everything I read leads to geo textile as underlay and 3 to 4 inches of gravel on top. There has to be a good crown on the road and bar ditches where needed to keep the surface dry and drained. The more open and the less trees shading the road, the better. The wind and sun work wonders on drying things out after a rain, if it can get to it.
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beenthere

Re-claimed asphalt costs about the same as limestone here.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Norm

I've used limestone for years and have the same problem Ty. Reclaimed asphalt is not available so we've gone to using gypsum. Last a lot longer for us.

mad murdock

We have a steel mill in the vicinity, and the slag that they produce makes pretty good material, especially after it has set for a couple months, it gets almost like concrete.  The mill sells it for $10 a dump truck load (loading fee), or if a guy has a loader and his own truck, it is free.  The stuff is sized large (2-3" minus), and small (3/4" minus).  Many of the commercial timberland owners in this country use "pit run" (4-6") rock, and if it is a more used road throw a little 2" minus on top.  The pit run stuff does make for a real solid base.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Al_Smith

Depends on where you live I suppose .I'm right in limestome country so it's at least 8 inches of number 1s and 2s and 6 inchs of 304 over that .If it needs top dressed after a few years it's 411 .The stone numbering system  seems to vary depending on the geographical location .

In a former life with former wife I put in 600 feet of lane using reclaimed rail road ballast .Balite limestone, hard as granite . At a buck and a quarter a ton loaded how could I go wrong ? That was 1980 though .

SwampDonkey

Packed crushed shale works good, about 4 inches. The only thing about this natural stuff, and we don't have heavy clay up where I live, is weeds will grow in it over time. Especially something like chickweed and pineapple weed and some grasses I suppose. Usually growing up in the less packed crown.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Bro. Noble

We've used a limestone product that is pretty course but with a lot of fine material in it-----I don't remember what it's called.  It has worked pretty well for us except in steap areas.  Once it starts washing a ditch,  it grows with each heavy rain.  We have considered paving with asphalt or concrete,  but worry that the rapid runoff would create bigger problems.  Any ideas?
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Ironwood

We have a VERY steep approach to the house directly, and another "truck route" out and around. The best method is to work with nature, I let nature cut the inside edge for years before the regrind went down, this created a natural waterpath, AND the less "improvements the better, things like culverts, they require maintance. I found that out early on. I maintain about 1.5 miles of road with numerous creeks and pipes. My truck route is gravel and the direct route is regrind. The regrind has held up VERY well. I do NOT miss the maintainence issue on the steep. My biggest issue is the mud season on the truck route, when the frost comes out of the ground, once that is gone I am golden! I already went thru 20 ton of lmestone on the drive and shop area this year. It is an annual issue, especially near the shop and mill, lots of debris build up, bark, saw dust, dirt from pressure washing. I usually scrape it out (haul it w/ crawler/dump) to the long truck drive and put fresh in the shop area. Natural revolution. I wish we could get mill slag here >:( where I grew up in Ohio it was everywhere and NEVER rounds over like limestone, my Grandmothers drive never eroded (like limestone) for 20 years :o

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

SwampDonkey

When we built coastal roads we just used crust shale and steep climbs had water bars. The flat out roads were never graded where I works and never turned to mud. Back here in NB, they don't know how to build forest roads worth snot. They still think clay and coarse sand makes good roads. Only when it's dry. When it wet, it either washes (sand shoulders) or turns to a sesspool (clay) that a truck usually ends up sinking to the bed of a log trailer. They will spend $Millions a year grading roads at least twice a week all during the mild seasons, non stop. These are the forest companies. If they would just used crushed stone they would be eons and $$ ahead.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Al_Smith

It depends on where the limestone comes from as to the hardness .This stuff around here is pretty hard and doesn't powder up .It just disappears and goes to China after a while .I think it was maybe two years ago I had something like 90 -100 tons of 411  hauled to top  about 600 feet of 12 foot wide drive .Once every 15 years ,I'm not going to beller too loud .

I got rid of my F-600 Ford some time ago .I figured with what they can haul on a 5 axle and counting my time ,fuel, insurance and tags I was working for 4 dollars an hour .The very last year I had 500 in tags and insurance and hauled 50 tons --no brainer .

Al_Smith

Let me add something .The idiot that lived here before me had no equipment .Every couple of years he had 703's hauled in which is grit  .He could work it out with a garden rake but it makes a poor top surface .In addition it tracks on peoples shoes and gets into the house making ones better half extremely proud of you . The guy also mowed about 3/4 of an acre of grass with a push mower . He must have been a glutten for punishment is all I could figure .

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Al_Smith on March 01, 2011, 05:24:58 PM
The guy also mowed about 3/4 of an acre of grass with a push mower . He must have been a glutten for punishment is all I could figure .

I mow an acre by the old fashioned way and that's after a week of cutting brush on 5 acres of woods. The mowing don't pay much though. :D :D ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

stumper

Reclaimed asphault is awesome.  However, I would suggest 6 inches of it.  You could do that with 3 inches this spring an 3 more next if money is tight.  We have found that less then 6 inches will not hold up much better then gravel.  On the other hand I have seen 6 inches hold up on a section of road with 3000 vehicles a day and loads of up to about 140,000 pounds for 4 to 5 months.  

It is what I plan to use on my drive as money allows.  I am choosing that over asphault because the clay heaves my drive and asphault would crack.  This will also crack but will also reseal with summer heat.

MudBud

I also use pavement reclaim. It lasts about 10 years and then we recoat, roughly around $30/ton or if they are doing a parking lot repaving then its just the hauling fee.  Also reground concrete works good.  Some small driveways use mussel/clam shells from restaurants after they send them to the lanfill, they charge $10 truckload.

Be careful with Gypsum and some Limestone.  Both do carry trace amounts of salt and when wet it will get on the undercarriage of your vehicles and stick like cement! 

tyb525

Our soil is pretty much prime farming soil (I don't know the technical names) with clay about 3 feet down, not really any rock to speak of.

We also have a steeper hill (10-15%) right off the road, then there are two rolling hills but I wouldn't call them hills really. The steep hill not only goes downhill, but it is cut into the side of a steep drop from a field about 10 feet higher, which continues another 10 feet into wooded bottomland.

We always have trouble with the gravel washing down the steep hill onto the road every spring and during heavy rains. We keep a ditch alongside the lane on the uphill side, it works until we get too much rain and/or it gets clogged with leaves, then it spills out onto the lane and proceeds to wash out a rut in the same spot every time.

It's always been my job to reclaim as much of the gravel as I can off the road ::) :D

My biggest concern about the asphalt is whether it would wash away - the steep section is totally covered by trees, so it rarely dries completely.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Al_Smith

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 01, 2011, 05:40:28 PM
I mow an acre by the old fashioned way and that's after a week of cutting brush on 5 acres of woods. The mowing don't pay much though. :D :D ;D
Well that does surprise me . All this time I figured you'd weed wack the yard .

I do about 2.5 acres but I'm rather fond of riding .

SwampDonkey

Ty, look at the use of water bars and outsloping on that road down off the terrace from the field. The road will still need maintenance but will reduce costs and time spent every year. Maybe the AG department have someone or literature on this for erosion control.

Quote from: Al_Smith on March 01, 2011, 06:51:13 PM
Well that does surprise me . All this time I figured you'd weed wack the yard .

I do about 2.5 acres but I'm rather fond of riding .

Don't think for one moment a weed whacker and a brush saw aren't employed at different times of the year on the other 3 acres. :D  I usually take the cobwebs out of the old FS550 in April mowing down osier, apple, mountain ash, balm and red elder clumps. :D The weed whacker goes along the ditches,culverts, mailbox and buildings and raised bed garden on a not so regular basis, whenever I feel like it. ;D That's what keeps the spring in your step, keep's ya from going all soft and spleeny. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Al_Smith

I have no idea what spleeny is .I will say however it certainly  would  put spring in your step if you wacked yourself in the foot .I imagine the neighbors might think you were starting  a new dance craze or perhaps got a bee in the britches .Not good .

SwampDonkey

Naw, just operator error. :D

spleeny: spiteful and hard to get along with. :D :D :D ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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