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32 HP(maybe)

Started by EZ, December 14, 2003, 05:42:58 PM

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EZ

My mill has a 16 hp on it. So if I put another 16 hp beside it then that would give me 32 hp, right, I dont know. Would it saw like a 32 hp single engine. I figure when I'm sawing smaller stuff I would just use one engine and both for the bigger stuff. What do ya think.
I know, just buy a bigger motor, but I want the customers to remember me with something different.
EZ

Tom

Boy!  That would be different. :D

In outboards, they say that twins deliver more power than singles because there is less slippage.   You might have come up on something. ;D :D

Minnesota_boy

I want my customers to remember me for the quality and the low price I charge.  I don't need any gimmicks.  ;D

I've seen tractor pulls where the big ones run 2 engines, but I think the work that goes into making them work together may make that combo a tough one to make work out.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Fla._Deadheader

A while back, on the other side of the fence, there was a thread about 2 chainsaw engines on 1 bar??? Never know ::) ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Tom

There's already a precedent for the engineering.  they put multiple engines on Ultra lights and run a centrifugal clutch on the second with a belt to the first and drive the plane with one prop. That's kinda what you'd have to do with a sawmill. The clutch makes it so you only have to start one engine.  That engine starts the other one  Getting them to pull equally might be a challenge. :P

Don P

I visited a circle mill that ran 2- 40 hp 3 phase motors, he said it worked great.
There was a little tablesaw in the back of a pickup at the local store the other week. Not only 2 motors...one behind the other. they were different speeds and pulleyed to compensate.

D._Frederick

EZ,
Your idea of using to gas engines won't work, they will fight each other like two tom cats in a sack. The governor   characteristic of each engine will be different, so they will not respond to change of load the same. This will result in the engines surging, one engine throttle wide open with the other one closed, then the other engine wide open. The only way two engines will work together is if they have only one governor. So save your $$$.

woodhaven

EZ,
You could add 50 16 H.P. engines to it and you would still only have 16 H.P. What you would have is a very strong 16 H.P. I would have to go into the engineering side of this to really explain. This holds true no matter if its gas or electric or whatever. Increasing your H.P. that way only increases your torq not the total H.P.
 In other words 16 H.P. plus 16H.P. equals 16 H.P.
 Maybe twice the torq but only 16 H.P. total
Richard

Steve

I once worked on a tug boat that had four  671 JImmy diesels driving one propeller shaft through a gear box.
Two pair of two inline engines all working together.

Steve
Hawaiian Hardwoods Direct
www.curlykoa.com

IndyIan

My guess is that you could get it to work, there are lots of applications of dual motors around, even race cars!  

In theory you should have twice as much torque at a given rpm and therefore have twice the hp.  
I think airvane govenors would still work as they are dependent on rpm, not load.
I would make sure the engines both run and are tuned equally well when used individually.  One strong engine and one weak one might end up equaling one mediocre one if your not careful.

An advantage is that you have to have 2 engines down to be forced to quit sawing!  Disadvantage is that you have to maintain two engines...  Post pics if you do it!

Ian


dail_h

  I once saw an old frick mill that had two IH deisels,one ud9,the second a ud6. They were belted together through the balance wheel. When the 9 slowed down,the 6 would pick it up.      A sawing fool
World Champion Wildcat Sorter,1999 2002 2004 2005
      Volume Discount At ER
Singing The Song Of Circle Again

EZ

I was talking to a guy today and he said it can be done, BUT.
First I would need 2 electronic tack meters, he said I could get them pretty cheep, $40.00 a piece. ::) If the governers would be working against each other, then I would have to unhook them and watch the tacks so that they would be running the same rpm. As if I dont have anything else to do when sawing. Unbeleaveable, I cant beleave there aint a simple way to do this. :( :-/ :o
EZ

duke401

back in the good old days we used [two 440 chy.or 428 fords] twins on irr wells. we run them off of how much vacume they were pulling. since we just went with bigger moters not as much hassel keeping one running. we had less invested with twins but more repair expence. it can be done, if there is a will there is a way
duke

Percy

Well EZ,
Im no engineer so I cant help you with the guzzintas on this idea but if you wanna have two engines, why not have another sawhead right behind or infront of the one you already got with your second motor running it, youd cut two boards in one pass so youd be twice as fast. ;D
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Paul_H

Woodhaven,
I wish you would explain why it wouldn't increase horsepower.I don't know much about it,but if I had one horse hooked up to pull a log and he couldn't budge it,another horse just might do the job.

I would think that I had two horses pulling.The same thing in my mind as an engine with 8 cyl as opposed to a single.

Keep in mind,I'm asking,not argueing. ;)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Dave_Fullmer

I saw two steam engines running a mill one time at a show in Clarksville, Mich.  The funny thing that has always puzzled me was the positioned the engines  facing each other.  I would have thought that there would be a rotation problem.

Just thought of why this would work while I was writing it.  They must have twisted one belt and not the other.  Don't know why I never thought of that before.  

Any way, Would the torgue, Hp question be the same as gasoline engines?  I do know that steam has Immediate torque as it begins to rotate.

Just trying to stir the pot.
Dave
If it aint Orange (AC that is) it won't run.

Bro. Noble

Dave,

Steam engines can run backward so you wouldn't even have to twist the belt on either one.
milking and logging and sawing and milking

woodhaven

Ok I will try to make this make sense.
Lets say you have a horse the 4 legged kind.
The horse can run lets say 60 mph.
The horse can also pull a 1000 lb load.
Know lets say you need to pull a 2000 lb load.
One horse alone can"t do it so you add another horse.
Now you can pull the 2000 lb's
But the second horse is just like the first horse and can run 60 mph.
Both horses side by side are still running only 60 mph but can pull the heaver load.

You could have a 100 horses side by side all running 60 mph and all had the same Horse Power say 100. You would have a 100 horses running 60 mph not 1000 Horse Power.What you would have with the 100 horses is the power to rip hell apart.
Richard

woodmills1

well I was gonna try to stay quiet.

power = work / time      or

         =force x distance / time   or

          = force x velocity

so to use the example above if one horse pulls one log so far in a certain amount of time that is so much power.  Now that one log will offer a certain amount of resistance due to its weight and friction so that is a certain amount of force.  Now I understand that a horse can only move so fast but when a second horse is used to move another log there is now twice the required force so if same distance and time, 2 times force gives 2 times power.

lets look at it from  power = force x velocity
again if the force doubles even if velocity stays constant then power doubles.

when power is increased either more work is done in same time or same work is done in less time.  Now since for the horse example max speed is set then time should be considered constant and for that matter probably distance also.  so the only variable that can change is force.

on my sawmill with 24 horse things like belt speed and hyd pump speed are set.  So I might not get much more with a bigger motor.  But a motor with more power could be equipped with devices that would make use of that power.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

D._Frederick

If we were talking about a 2 cylinder engines of 16 hp and then added another engine an connected there crankshafts together, we would have doubled the displacement. Would not this have doubled the horsepower? Anyway, the physics book shows that: 1 hp= 33000 ft-lb/min. So when we add another engine, we are adding to the 33000 ft-lbs and are increasing the horsepower.

raycon

Twin outboards powered boats advertise there HP as the sum of the two motors not one?

Double the torque with all else remaining equal double the HP...in theory.

Lot of stuff..

woodhaven

I think several of us have said exactly the same thing. Only in differant words. Probably what is a little confusing is the differance between Power and Horse Power.
 Lets look at a little differant. All of us have used a cant hook. So if you are using a 3 foot cant hook to turn a log. Do think it would make any differance if you used a dozen 3 foot cant hooks? No! But go to a 5 foot hook and it gets easier.
Richard

Neil_B

It would if you had a dozen guys using those cant hooks  ;D
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

woodhaven

I think the only way we can settle this is for all of us to meet somewhere and take 2 engines a hand full of pulleys a couple of logs and play a while.

Oh I forget
And a  6 pak.
Richard

EZ

This is what I mean about one engine(16hp) saws fine with say 14 and 16 inch logs. But with a 30 inch log it is really slow sawing, so with two 16 hp motors I would have more power(torque). My motor rpm is 3600, two 16 hp motors I will still have 3600 rpm but more power.
EZ

DanG

I don't think he's really looking for horsepower, but more torque. He doesn't want to spin the thing faster, just have it not bog down under a load.
It probably would work, to a certain degree, but synchronization may be a bit of a problem, what with having 2 carbs and 2 governors. Twin outboard motors work great on a boat, but there is no hard connection between them, such as a belt or gear would give you. There is a certain "slip factor" present there, anyway.
I think I'd try it if I already had the second motor, but I probably wouldn't spend the money just to find out. :)

Come to think of it, ya reckon ya could control both carbs from just one of the governors?  That might make it more feasable by preventing them from surging against each other. ::) :P
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

EZ

A 6 pak, do you mean that we are going to put 6 carbs on the two motors. ;D
EZ

woodhaven

EZ,
You are exactly right. This would solve your particular problem.

Getting the 2 rascals holding the same rpm would probably be a pain in the butt.
Richard

BBTom

I think that it would work just fine. No doubt that the two engines would not run at exactly the same speed, but if you include overrunning clutches on each, then the one that is spinning faster will pull the blade in a no load situation. but as soon as you sink it into a log, that engine will drop speed till the other picks up the slack.  

2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

woodmills1

In customary units power is measured in foot pounds per second with the unit most used the horsepower being 550 foot pounds per second.  They both measure the same physical quantity just in different amounts.  In metrics power is in newton meters per second with a newton meter being called a joule so also may use joules per second.  But again a joule per second is called a watt, so watts measure power.  Again wats measure the same physical quantity.  A kilowatt is 1000 watts.  One horsepower is the equivalent to 746 watts.

Now if we are talking about the efficient use of power, or for that matter the efficient use of increased power that is a different animal.  Every hookup, device, bearing, clutch, coupler, or what ever introduces friction and losses, some more than others.  And yes more short peaveys with more people would make the job easier.

I had a boat once and it just wouldn't move.  I put another motor on it and it still wouldn't move.  I guess I should have taken it off the blocks in the front yard and put it in the water! :D :D :D :D
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

woodmills1

by the way the leggo fanatics are into this two motor stuff.  I did a google search on power from two motors and many sites were about leggos!
http://mapageweb.umontreal.ca/cousined/lego/3-Physics/Motors/combine.html

http://www.lmsm.info/back-issues/0702/tipsntricks.html
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Neil_B

 I want to try this the way woodhaven explained it. I think he means right but may be mixed a bit.  :-/

You have one big log ( say it's a blade)
One 3 foot cant hook ( pulleys and belt)
 2 guys ( 2 motors).
 Bed of the mill (friction)

One guy can not turn  the log very fast or far by himself because it is catching something on the bed, so the other guy grabs onto the same cant hook with him and they are both able to turn the log quicker and easier overcoming the friction.

Now in sawmill terms

You have a blade ( it's actually still a blade)  ;)
Pulleys and belts
2 motors
Friction from sawing a large log

You start sawing into the log with one motor but it starts bogging down due to friction, start the other motor that is hooked up to the same belts and pulleys as the first one and it will start pulling the first motor out of the range of bogging.

Conclusion, as everyone mentioned, it would be difficult to get both motors working as one just like one guy could be doing more of the work than the other guy because he may be stronger or have more energy. Not sure if that would actually double the hp or not but it would certainly increase it. Maybe 1 1/2 times or something. ???

Does that sound right?
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

raycon

If I had a dozen helpers rolling one log with cant hooks I'd have a lot of helpers - That log would roll real easy as well.
12 cant hooks 3ft long = 1 cant hook 36 ft long
Give me a lever long enough and I'll move the earth -- or something like that
As long as at least one motors drive had the capacity to slip I think you'd be ok. Primay and a slave. Chainsaws have this setup and its a chain drive -- they don't have one throttle but two right?
Lot of stuff..

Bro. Noble

Heck,

If I had just one of them horses that runs 60 mph,  I wager I'd have one of them new orange mills with the yellar engine on it before long 8)
milking and logging and sawing and milking

EZ

If I can figure out the same rpm thing, this is how I was going to hook it up, I think.
The pulley on the engine is lined up with the bandmill pulley. It's engage with a idler pulley, some what like a riding mower. The pulley on the motor is 5 1/4 inch. I was going to mount the second motor right beside the other. I was going to put another 5 1/4 pulley on the original motor and another 5 1/4 pulley on the other motor. And have a idler pulley to engage the second motor when needed. My question is, will this be right.
I know what I mean, I just hope this makes sense to guys and gals.
EZ

Tom

EZ,
I'm not sure if it would work this way but how about a centrifugal clutch on the second engine?  It would make it easy to start and if the first engine "over-ran" it perhaps the clutch would release.

Anybody know if it would work like that?

Percy

When I was a kid, the big guy in the neighbourhood raced gokarts and he had two chainsaw motors running the same shaft. The thing went like a scalded cat. When it was under load (Wide open) it sang but when idling or half throttle crusing it did surge. Im thinkin as long as you are workin it, it should be fine. So what if one is workin abit harder than the other. Its like a team of horses, theres always a lazy one ;D and all this "one guy on a cant hook" stuff is givin me a sore back :D :D
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Stump Jumper

wouldnt nitrus be easyer ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8) :o
Jeff
May God Bless.
WM LT 40 SuperHDD42 HP Kubota walk & ride, WM Edger, JD Skidsteer 250, Farmi winch, Bri-Mar Dump Box Trailer, Black Powder

duke401

maybe propane injection,  this would work, not two motors but 1.33
duke

D._Frederick

EZ,
Your pulley system from one engine to the other engine will work if both engines are the same size and model. There may be surging when they are not under load and they try to tear your belts apart. Is there any way you could run linkage between the carbruator butterfly valves of the engines so one govenor would control both engines? Surplus Center has a governor listed for $29, it may be possible to install another governor and controll both engines with it.I think that you are going to have more costs and headaches than you would have if you just bought one larger engine

Fla._Deadheader

Guys, GUYS, Do I hafta straighten y'all out , AGAIN ??? ::) ::)
  SELL the first engine and BUY a BIGGER one ::) ::) ::) ::) :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;) ;)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

EZ

As I said in the beginning, I'd like to have something different for people to remember me by. Like Arkansawyer, the name is different and catches the eye.
BTW, like I said earlier my 16 hp produces 3600 rpm and I have a new 11 hp still in the box that also produces 3600 rpm. Even tho the hp is different the rpm is the same, so I wonder if I could use these two together.
EZ

Wes

 WOW I just read this thread for the first time and now my head hurts. ??? It sounds like a fun project, Id go for it.

chet

Two engines will probably mean twice the number of engine problems. I agree with Dead_Header, sell um both and get one bigger. There are better ways to get a customer to remember you without resorting to gimmicks.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

DanG

Being the disagreeable old cuss that I am, I'm gonna (what else?) disagree. ;D
Since you've already got the second engine, and you can spare the time to fiddle with it for a while, why not try it?  There is plenty of precedent for the idea. There have been cars that only use 4 cylinders until they need 8. There are airplanes, and even spacecraft that have auxiliary engines to fire up when they need extra power.

Don't let someone talk you out of trying something new, 'specially if they haven't proven it won't work. Now, this ain't knocking Harold or Chet, 'cause you DID ask for opinions, and they gave you theirs. I guarantee if you do it, and it works, they'll be the first to congratulate you. :)

Besides all that, if it don't work, you can still sell the 2 engines and buy a bigger one. ;D

BTW, thanks for bringing this up in the first place. It has been an interesting discussion, and it got a lot of folks to thinking. 8)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

woodhaven

At the moment all thats really important is.

Santa Claus is coming!!!!!!!!
Richard

VA-Sawyer

( Caution: This is pretty longwinded )

EZ
   This really won't be too hard to do. Yes, you will get more HP to the blade. Yes, you will burn more gas and have more maintenance. No, the engines don't have to be synced up exactly. If you run a second belt from the new engine to the origional engine and put an idler type clutch on it, then it will be fine. You may have to put a heavier belt and set of pulleys between the first engine and the saw to carry the higher total HP.
    You will have to run a linkage from the first throttle butterfly valve to the carb on the second engine. Set the governor on the second engine to about 50 rpm higher than the max governor speed on the first engine. Modify the second engine governor linkage so it isn't pulling the butterfly open, but only able to shove it closed. (This is to prevent the second engine from overspeeding to destruction if the drive belt breaks) We will use the governor on the first engine to control both engines for sawing.
       To saw with only the first engine:
           1.  Slacken up the belt on the second engine by moving the idler clutch to disengaded position.
           2.  Start first engine and begin normal sawing.

        To saw with both engines:
           1. Slacken up the belt on the second engine. Same as step one above.
           2. Start both engines at idle.
           3. Engage clutch to tighten belt on second engine.
           4. Start sawing


Why does this work ?  Both engines will always be turning at the same RPM when the clutch is engaged on the second engine. (Assuming same size pulleys on both engines )  At any time, one engine may be producing more power (torque) than the other, but they are turning at the same RPM.  Having two tachs will tell you nothing useful. Even if you kill the fuel to one of the engines, they will be turning at the same speed. It may not cut very well that way, but BOTH ENGINES WILL BE TURNING AT THE SAME SPEED. ( Even if that speed is zero !!! )  
As you increase the load on the engine by moving the blade into the wood, the engine wants to lose RPM. The governor sees the drop in RPM and opens the throttle more to try to get the engine to speed back up to the setpoint RPM ( desired governor speed ) . The governor doesn't care if it is hooked to one throttle valve or a lot of  throttle valves. All the governor cares about is the difference between current RPM and setpoint RPM.

The real question you need to ask is, will the structure of the saw handle the extra weight and torque ?

Rick
VA-Sawyer

EZ

Rick, thanks for the reply.
Makes alot of sense about the tack thing, now that you said that.
The carrage is made out of 4 inch tubing, 1/4 thick wall. the sawhead frame is a 6 x 8 tubing. I fill that it is strong enough to mount a 350 chevy up there if I wanted to. Last summer I forgot to put the stopper at the end of the rail and the carrage fell off the end. The only thing it hurt was my feelings.
Thanks again.
EZ

Stump Jumper

I vote for the 350 chevy :o :o :o :o :o 8) 8) 8) ;D ;D ;D :D
Jeff
May God Bless.
WM LT 40 SuperHDD42 HP Kubota walk & ride, WM Edger, JD Skidsteer 250, Farmi winch, Bri-Mar Dump Box Trailer, Black Powder

EZ

This evening I place the 11 hp beside the 16 hp, mark the holes to bolt the motor down. Took the motor back off and drilled the holes. 8) My wife came out to supervize and I place the motor back on and started to bolt it down. I had 2 bolts in and she said, are you going to be able to change that spark plug on the 16 hp. ??? I look at it and I'll be DanG if I couldnt get to it. One thing I dont want to do is pull the motor to change a plug. Back to the drawing board.
EZ

Minnesota_boy

I wouldn't worry about getting at that spark plug.  I've changed engines, but I never have had a plug out or mine.  Electronic ignition seems to have eliminated plug changing for me.  Heck, I even have some of the original plugs in my truck engine, never been out since the factory put them in back in 1978.  :o :o :o
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Swede

Think I´ve had hundreds of :D :D :D :D :D reading all this wonderful explanations! Tell me what belts You use between the engines, I´m going to be a V-beltdealer.

An other example: Two guys with two hooks. One is trying to turn the log in the morning and one in the afternoon. That log will take all the day.

Look here
http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/traction/tech_traction_4wd_21.htm
 Why not a Haldex between the two engies? :D :D

2 motors whith the speed regulations not set the same will work against each other. Even one 2-cyl engine feed tru one carburetor but where fuelmix´s way to the cylinders is diffrent makes You loss power (torqe). Two engines is very difficult to adjust so they are pulling together intill You feed so hard that both goes down in rpm!

And Who dont remember old cars with 2 carburetors? ::)

As some of You said, there is a big difference between Hp and torqe and everyone use the torque.

I like Your knowledge and how You tell about it! /Swede.  :D :D


Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

Swede

EZ

If You realy want two engines (to fill), Use the 16 HP for the saw unit and a 5-8 hp for the hydraulic pump down in the frame. You can get a very fast loghadling that way. I´ve seen  such a Jacko mill.

Remember that a big engine wants more fuel. Two engines want´s a lot! If i slow my Vanguard 18HP down when possible I use about 2,5 liters/hour

If I want an 12 V DC motor for the hydraulic pump and a fast log loader (2 cyl.Ø1,5"x14"), does anybody know if a startmotor from a car or another unexpesive stuff would work? Then I only need 2 cables down from the battery.

Swede.
Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

music_boy

O.k.
     Just for the fun of it, I've been readin this thread.  Fascinatin. :P
I don't know nothin bout physics, twin engins, and the like. I do pride myself on some common sense about things and what seems obvious to me. (don't mean it's right)  
So
If  I was pushing a wheelbarrow up a hill with a full load, and i slowed way down to say half the rate as I started.My buddy came along and started helping me push and I was pushin at the previous rate. Is that two people power, or is it the same amount of people power  at its previous rate :-/
rick
It's not how much YOU love, it is how much you ARE loved that matters. (Wizard of OZ)

cluckerplucker

  swede you are catching hell. what about belt slippage, you will need chain drive .  

  cecil
cecil

Swede

cluckerplucker;

Thats right! ;D and I have 130´ 5/8" for sale and it´s cluch free-type.  8) But I´ve solved Music Boy´s problem.

Run the maine engine with speed control at 3000 rpm. untill it begin to lose speed. Then give 2:nd engine with speed control at 3200  full gas and stretch the V-belts.
Now the main engine hold the speed for both engines, the 2:d goes at  full load. You get the torqe as You need it. HP as Rolls Royce, necessary

Swede.
Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

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