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What can Larch be used for ?

Started by rambo, February 28, 2011, 05:24:31 PM

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rambo

Hello All,
I have a chance to saw up some larch logs, but I have no clue what they can be used for. If anyone knows please let me know.
Thanks
John

JimMartin9999

I just finished an outdoor  deck and my neighbor did his  kitchen/dining room floor in larch.
Jim

SwampDonkey

We've never used larch too much around here. In fact I can't remember ever using it. But I have seen some larch species used for flooring, fence post, framing, roofing. But, again no one around these parts is too fond of it. It's more rot resistant than  spruce, hemlock or northern pines, but can be twisty cork screwy stuff when drying.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Bandmill Bandit

Depends to some degree on the type of larch but it is real good for wet locations. In this country fence posts is a common use partly because getting sizable larch is pretty tough but also the tendency to twist. if you get it mill and fastened down quick it makes a very durable and long lasting low maintenance out door deck. Also good for a dock but again get it cut, milled, in place and very well fastened.

If you are willing to cut the cants and let it dry it can make some very nice flooring and furniture but it can be a bit of PIA to mill and work with too. If your patient you will have a unique finished product.       
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

lumberjack48

We used to put Larch/ Tamarack up for pulpwood, i cut thou's of cords of it, loaded in on railroad cars.
I cut one over in the Chippewa N F that was 36", over by Third river, that was one big Larch.
All the old buildings, barns ect were framed in with sawed tamarack in Mn.

In the late 1800, early 1900 Tamarack was used for railroad ties.

I used it for firewood, when i could get it, it was the only thing I'd burn.

I cut Larch logs in Mt., up in the Yaak, north of the Dirty Shame Saloon, north of Libby, Mt.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

SwampDonkey

Up here cedar was for fencing, and spruce, sometimes hemlock in the old days, was for building. Most people around here don't even want to use fir if they can get spruce.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

snowstorm

they used a lot of it on the coast here for seawalls.....decking on docks. most of the pillings were oak. now the story i heard and if i am wrong maybe swamp will know. how the europian larch diesise got started here in maine . they imported some larch from europe to build the docks in eastport.......any truth to it????????

Knute

We have a larch log cabin next to our land which was built in 1928 and is still in great shape.

KBforester

Twisted grain can be a problem. From what I've seen (just looking at logs/stems) its highly dependent on geographic region. I've jet to find one twisted grained larch on my property (Downeast Maine). I've seen some growing in Upstate NY that look like giant corkscrews.

I'm not an experience sawyer, but I'm currently sawing some larch right now. So far not too many problems. I think the sap wood tends to release some funky tension when you cut through it. I've read that the best applications are for those products that use the trees natural shape as possible (cants and beams where you only slabed off as little wood as possible. Its exceptionally strong, and gets used in post and beam buildings when you need something really strong.

They also use it in boat building. Ships knees and planking. Its generally regarded as a waterproof wood. I've also heard it makes good barn decking because it holds up to animal urine well. I'd probably stay away from any 1" material.

I'd like to hear more about this Eastport theory. Sounds interesting.
Trees are good.

SwampDonkey

Quote from: snowstorm on February 28, 2011, 07:53:17 PM
they used a lot of it on the coast here for seawalls.....decking on docks. most of the pillings were oak. now the story i heard and if i am wrong maybe swamp will know. how the europian larch diesise got started here in maine . they imported some larch from europe to build the docks in eastport.......any truth to it????????

I guess I've not heard of it. We have sawfly, budworm and beetles in tamarack. I think Jeff has the start of a wave a bugs up at his woods in the UP. Back east here, I have not noticed any disease. I have seen sawfly wipe out 100 acres of tamarack around Moose Mountain Lake. I have killed some on my yard trees to, mass of green worms with yellow stripes in mid summer. I do have a European larch on the lawn, the sapsuckers killed by Japanese larch. I planted about 3000 tamarack seedlings in the wetlands on my woodlot. These areas were cedar harvest. Tamarack will grow on water it seems (not in the literal sense), but cedar will tolerate it well to and lives a lot longer.  No, I guess I have never heard to disease story. European larch has been grown in plantations here for at least 50 years. Not too much on a commercial scale however, just experimental farms for the most part. I guess they wanted to see how it performed. The Acadian Experimental Station in Noonan, near Fredericton, has some really nice European and Japanese Larch. Our tamarack seem to be more like corkscrews around here. You look a the young stems and it looks like someone twisted them. It's a spiralling grain.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Strictly speaking of native eastern larch/tamarack. I think it is also site. Fields (or once fields) and plantation usually yield corkscrew quality. In tight forest grown stands it's much nicer looking especially if a little sandy.

I have seen some nice stands up here and I have seen some on fast growing sites. Where the trees out grew the spruce and fir in height and girth, but the darn limbs were 20 feet long and big. And grew like corkscrews.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Maine372

post and beam barns is where ive found it most. usually with just one side sawn or hewed flat, then shaped on each end for the appropriate joint.

Bandmill Bandit

found out this afternoon that the local power line contractors still use tamarack(when they can get it) for power poles in the peat and bog areas that they have to build power lines in around this part of the province. Apparently the stuff is pretty scarce in the size they need so it can be pricey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larch

some info from wiki for what it is worth.

Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

rambo

Thanks to all of you! :) That was a big help. I love FF 8)

Ron Wenrich

My guess is that since he's from PA, that those aren't eastern larch, but may well be European larch.  They put them in plantations starting in the '30s.  Very little native larch around.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

madmari

Structural beams and knees in boatbuilding. The root stems are sought after to saw out knees, stems, etc. There is a farm in St. Albans, Maine that harvests tamarack just for that prupose.
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

KBforester

 
Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on February 28, 2011, 06:57:31 PM
In this country fence posts is a common use partly because getting sizable larch is pretty tough but also the tendency to twist.

Do you need to dry larch posts before you use them? Or any species for fence posts for that matter?
Trees are good.

SwampDonkey

Usually cedar was only semi dried in a pulp pile, laying in the grass. But I have seen it used green. One old timer had basically a rock wall around his barn yard pasture, probably 2 feet deep.  One day I saw he was digging in the rock by hand and putting in 6" diameter cedar posts, about 8 feet long, with the bark still on. I was looking at some thinning going on in his woods and saw this on the drive in. I didn't dare stop and talk for fear of having to help drive them stakes. :D :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

treetech

The greenish heartwood is supposed to be naturally rot resistant. I used to saw it for local fishermen to use for building lobster traps. It's nice and heavy and it's supposed to turn dark quite fast when underwater.

Bandmill Bandit

The Larch posts that UFA sells (when they have em) are about as dry as you can get them in a year or less. They process at the pole plant about as fast as they come off the the logging truck and then get them loaded and shipped to the UFA yard at about the same rate. Harvested in the winter and most of them will be in the ground by the end of that same June.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

JimMartin9999

Some of the sawyers should be able to tell you  how much a difference there is between native tamarack and the Japanese and European larches.  I suspect there is a great deal of difference.  I know that a lot of larch has been planted in Scotland.
I planted 10 000 larches about 13 years ago, they are doing well.  The Norway spruce and white pine I put in  were  attacked by white pine weevil.
The Germans use larch  as a nurse planting to improve conditions for hardwoods, planting them at wide spacing.  I have always wanted to try planting them at about 20 X 20´ft spacing in south central NY to encourage hardwoods.
Does anyone have experience with this?  Or insight?
Jim

SwampDonkey

Our hardwood sites around here grow so thick with shade tolerant hardwood, that the only chance a larch has is in the ditches and areas of wetness where the trees are sparse. All you need is a nice brush saw and start thinning at the right timing and spacing. If you plant larch on an old field it will soon be accompanied by white birch, aspen, ash, spruce, white pine, fir, cherry. Rarely will tolerant hardwoods be the first colonizers. Red maple, cherry and ash are most likely the only hardwood you will see for a long time in the larch to seed in naturally. And out of all three, I would take ash. Our cherry is mostly junk because it gets black knot. And red maple will grow in a nice big clump of 10+ stems after the deer, moose and rodents chew the heck out of it.

Yes, Norway Spruce is just as likely to be weeviled as the white pine up here to. You have to grow white pine shaded and keep it pruned so blister rust don't get a chance to germinate on low limbs/needles in the dampness of the growing season. Tends to be damp and high humidity in under softwood, much reduced light and heat. I've had success under planting in aspen and spruce plantation. But the cursed moose are another story, they destroy pine like it's the enemy.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

barbender

I wish we could find a use for our tamarack, it is our most under utilized species. I about cried when I was leaving the landing on the last job and looking at all the clear 18-20" tamarack in the pulp pile. I'd like to saw a bunch up, and I just might ::)
Too many irons in the fire

barbender

LumberJack 48, that 36 incher is one serious tamarack. That's a huge tree for any species up here. How many sticks was that beast?
Too many irons in the fire

KBforester

If you can put you Tamarack in a pulp pile, than your luckier than many. Biomass only in our area. Talk about a downer.

36" is a seriously big tamarack. I've got some 20 ish " ones on my property, and I've seen a couple around 30" in other areas.

My silviculture professor discovered the Former national champion 1982, and it just died and was harvested last year. Here is a caption from his facebook album with pictures:

"This is (was) the national champion tamarack tree that I found in 1982 and died (sigh). The landowers decided to harvest the tree (YAY) and archive the butt log in the Ashland Logging Museum...nice. Here are some photos, courtesy of Greg Davis, Seven Islands Forester from Nov. 25, 2008. The tree was over 300 years old; I have a cookie from the top of the butt log. It nearly died in the larch sawfly outbreak of ca. 1890. Dbh was over 44", ht about 95 feet to a 10" dead top (from 1890). Logger is Charlie Tucker, of Ashland Maine." -Bob Seymour




Trees are good.

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