Cutting and selling standing timber on private property

[Kirkwa]

Hi,

Please forgive my ignorance I know very little about cutting and selling standing timber, so I could use some sound advice.

I am considering cutting and selling some Hemlock trees on my property.  Knowing I was thinking of doing this, a neighbor how has been in the logging industry for many years approached me with an offer.

His offer is, I have the trees, he has the equipment and, suggested we would split the profits 50/50.  Does this sound like a good arrangement?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank

[dutchman]

I think you might do better if you contact a local Forestry Consultant.
In PA. a state agent will look and tell you what you may want to cut.
You can contact a  private forester who can handle the sale for you.
Dealing with a neighbor might bring on serious problems.
If you get a forester and the neighbor bids the job, you both get what
your looking for.

[Jeff]

There are lots of situations if you are not careful where there turns out there are no profits and poof, you have no trees either.  Know what you have before you make any deal. In volumes and dollars. If it was my timber, if I was working directly with the logger, I'd want my money up front before a tree was cut. Working with a forester, gives you more options and typically some sort of safety net as he is going to be looking out for you, or at least he should be.

[Bandmill Bandit]

I recommend getting a forester to give you a reasonable base line of value for the timber on the property and to establish which tress to harvest to maximize the future timber value as well.

50/50 is generally a good arrangement and has worked well for me many times. Just make sure you spell out what that 50/50 means.
When I do 50/50 if includes split of all out of pocket costs to get to to the finished lumber stacks AND placing a value on the fire wood as well.

I know you will get lots of good advice and what jeff says will always keep you on the right track too.

I give the saw dust away for free :D cause I just love producing it.  8)

[Ron Scott]

How many acres and trees are you talking about? If your neighbor is a logger and has a Hemlock market you must have a few trees to be interested in. Is there only hemlock to be harvested?

[Magicman]

In our area we have a County Forester.  Your Extension or NRCS office should be able to give you some advice.  There should be no need to make a hasty decision.

[banksiana]

If you get along well with your neighbor and want to continue to, it is best to have a third party involved.  Find out what hemlock is selling for in your area, have your timber cruised and marked for harvest.  If you sell to your neighbor, make sure that you are pre-paid for the timber before he cuts it.  This is the only way to do this and still remain on good terms.  There is two ways to sell the timber.  One is consumer scale, where the mill sends you proof as to how much has been hauled.  The other is sold as appraised where someone (third party forester) estimates the volume of the marked or designated timber and assigns a price to it.  Foresters can get close to actual volume if they are experienced.

[thecfarm]

Good advice from all.I'm VERY fussy with mine land.I usually do all of the logging on mine land.But realized I would never get it done,I had a logger come in and help me out.I watched him cut for 20 years.Walked many of his jobs.Always happy with the out come.Don't go by the logger that hollers,"well you got to get the wood out' when he leaves a mess in the woods.

[Kirkwa]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

Ron,

Not a big harvest, it's a selective cutting on one of my 5 acres parcel.  He is estimating about four truckloads.  There is hemlock and cider; average tree diameter at eye level is 28 to 30 inches Straight and very tall.

My neighbor tells me hemlock prices have sharply increased.  One of the reasons I am considering this cut.  So, if I understand correctly, the consensus is that I consult with a private forester before going forward.

By the way, I live in Washington State, and I've looked at my local forestry web site but was only able to find information on restriction and condition for harvesting, no information on foresters.  Any suggestion?  Are there private company's that do this?

Thanks

[Tom]

If you have never done anything like this before, my recommendation is to visit the County Forester.  You will probably find him in the phone book under the Gov. section.  Magicman calls him the extension Forester because, lately, they have been an assignment to the County Agent and may be in his office.

Depending on the decision of neighbors is the wrong thing to do, though they might enlighten you to the right people.  Your concern should be the future of your land, not treating it like a department store having a fire sale.  You don't have to sell the trees and you might be better off not selling the trees.  There are too many other reason to leave the trees other than the current price of timber.   Your Forester will ask you questions about what you want to do.  Consider recreation, or how the land looks to future real estate sales, wildlife, landscaping associated with your way of life, tax benefits, etc.  The County Forester, while maybe not able through his rules, to do these things for you, will certainly be able to present to you a list of qualified Foresters and to give you some direction.

Just because a fellow says he is a Forester, doesn't mean that he is a Forester.  Make sure that you get the advice of an Educated and Trained Forester, not just someone who lives in the woods or someone who likes trees.

Once the trees are gone,  you will be a long time replacing them.

[Kirkwa]

Thanks Tom,

Good advice and I have taken much of your suggestions into consideration.  Looks, land values, taxes, wildlife and so on.  As I said, if I do this it would not be a clear cut of the five acres, about every third tree.  It is a very dense parcel so I believe with every third tree harvested I will maintain a natural look.

Thanks again.

Kirk

[Ron Scott]

If you can't find a local Conservation District Forester or Extension Forester to serve your needs, you might try contacting the Association of Consulting Foresters of America, Inc. at www.acf-foresters.org. There are a number of foresters listed for the State of Washington. There might be one near you.

[Tillaway]

Kirkwa,
Call the Washington DNR, they should help, ask for the stewardship forester / forest practices forester (I'm not sure what they call them there) for your area. Do not just blindly go with your neighbor.  Those kind of deals particularly in the NW go wrong quick.

FYI, Thinning hemlock can be tricky.  Hemlock thinning tend to not be too successful and can wind up being a thinning with a salvage just after the first storm.  That has been my experience anyway.  You need competent local professional help.