gas powered skidder anyone??

tapper2 · February 23, 2011, 10:14:14 PM

Anyone here running a gas powered/converted skidder these days? I'm thinking of putting a gas 350cu. in. chevy engine in my old Franklin 120 skidder. It's got a 3-53 in it that needs a rebuild, but I've got a good 350 I could put in it, seems to be pretty simple conversion. They both use the same 4 spd. manual transmissions. Fuel economy's not a great concern as I'll only use it for "weekend warrior" stuff. I'd like to see some of the conversions that folks have done.

shinnlinger · February 23, 2011, 10:41:05 PM

I have seen lots of v-8 repowers of tractors and dozers in Farmshow. You gotta do what you gotta do and You are ahead of the game with the GM cross compatibility.

bushmechanic · February 24, 2011, 07:44:27 PM

I put a 250 chev engine in a 201B Timberjack,there are pic's in my photo albums.Personally I wouldn't trade a 353 for a gasser!

Bobus2003 · February 24, 2011, 07:58:00 PM

Weren't some of the early JD440's available with a 4 cylinder gasser?

redneck · February 24, 2011, 08:05:21 PM

there is a article in Atlantic Forestry review on page 28, Jan 2011, of a guy that has a 350 in a 205 timberjack. It says that he's had it 22 years. He also makes a living with it. Great article in a great magazine. You might be able to google Atlantic Forestry Review and find it.

timbuck2 · February 24, 2011, 08:08:59 PM

Swap to straight 6 GM was common back in the day, V8 eeehhh,,, ya planning on running on the Interstate???

fuzzybear · February 24, 2011, 09:18:01 PM

My mini skidder is run with the same engine/trans as you are talking about. Difference is I have a little better than 450hp. The truck could pull a 30' gooseneck loaded with no problem. In low range I have yet to find a tree here I couldn't pull from the bush. Price wise to rebuild my motor is around $1000 compared to a 353's hefty price tag. Parts are also readily available. With the choice of aftermarket products you can create a lot of power. A friend of mine has been waiting for 2 weeks for a water pump for his TJ. Costing him around $300 untill it gets here. My 350 water pump is $45 and they have 4 in stock.
I could never for the life of me understand why people will not look at gas motors. They can make more power than a diesel puffer, and cost way less to work on. I don't think I use much more fuel than a diesel for the work I'm making this thing do. I run through 5 gal every 8 hours of running. Most times I'm just above idle (1200rpm) once I get moving. That's pulling 2-3 large spruce at a time. My 350 is set up for low speed/ high torque. Max rpm is 4500 with peak torque produced at around 3200rpm.
But that's just my $.02 worth.
FB

treefarmer87 · February 24, 2011, 09:22:21 PM

my 110 had a 4 cyl ford motor on it, it was a great motor, but i believe the detriot i have on the H is better on fuel

craigc · February 24, 2011, 09:25:02 PM

Quote from: Bobus2003 on February 24, 2011, 07:58:00 PM
Weren't some of the early JD440's available with a 4 cylinder gasser?

Yes, My uncle still keeps his around.

shinnlinger · February 24, 2011, 11:14:37 PM

Make no mistake that the diesel is cheaper to run day in and day out, but that is offset with increased initial cost and maintenance. For a small time operator it might just make more sense to go gas.

Coon · February 24, 2011, 11:41:15 PM

My grandfathers old gas powered oliver tractor ran twice as good in the winter pulling logs compared to pulling a cultivator in the field working summerfallow. Gas engines need to be kept cool to provide power. In our cool climate if you're out in the wind with the tractor we have to keep the grill blanket closed closed alot of the time. If it's not windy and not too cold temperature wise you open it up some to give the engine more airflow to keep it cooler. The tractor was originally a diesel but when it needed rebuilt during seeding one spring the cheapest option was to drop a gas in. Since then we never have looked back, but mainly used the tractor for pushing snow and skidding firewood and sawlogs out.

As far as running a gas versus diesel in a warmer climate I am not too sure how well it would work for this application.

Ironwood · February 24, 2011, 11:46:50 PM

Makes complete sense to me, it would fire right up on the coldest mornings and run quiet and CHEAP on parts. I likes my old 8N, lots of upgrades available and cheap. Brakes were an issue :

but who REALLY needs t ostop anyhow

Ironwood

Coon · February 24, 2011, 11:59:21 PM

I needed to have breaks on our old Case DC4 for skidding wood. :D That was the only way you steered the ol gal. ;D That tractor had a hand clutch and the throttle between your legs. Once you got the system down like I did boy would it pull out the wood. The front wheels would stay about three inches of the ground until you throttled down on a straight clear pull. If you were man enough to crank the wheel with the front wheels touching the ground it had a tight steering radius. yarding logs up to a quarter mile from bush to log deck the tractor would burn about a gallon and a half an hour.

H60 Hawk Pilot · February 25, 2011, 01:07:05 AM

You'd be better off to rebuild the GM 3-53. Ther're a simple engine to repair and maintain and run for a long time. If you have limited funds, replace what need's replaced and you'll be Ok. I've built a lot of the Detroit's mostly 4-71's, 6-71's, 8V-71, 6V & 8V92's and 16V92's in a 35 ton rock trucks. All in all they are very similar in design and fairly simple once you rebuild a couple of them. If you need further information... just PM me. I have all the Detroit factory books and tooling but they're a 1000 miles away from me in PA (I'm in FL).

You can buy a used 353 shop manual on EBay for $25 to $ 35 bucks. Import Cyl. kits, bearings and overhaul set is around $ 650.00 for everything. 3 Injector's are $ 75.00 ea. exchange for rebuild's. Injector timing gauge for setting (used) them is $ 10 to $15 bucks. The other stuff you may have already is -- 170 lb. torque wrench and related hand tools. I don't know if your 353 has crank problems, bad (cracked) head or bad blower. If the 353 has major engine problem's then .. your're on a different page and back to an engine swap. I'd consider looking on ebay or craig's for a 353 engine that's in runable shape. I see them from time to time for $ 500 to $1,000.

I read that you have the 350's and they are great motors. I'd select a inline gas engine for the lower speed torque and better match up to the 353. If your a GM man go with a 6 cyl. 250 or 292 CI or the like engine. I don't remember the block length of the 353 but you should be fairly close with the inline. If you go with the inline gas engine, measure the length (closely) before you get messed up with a big job and a lot of re-engineering ... time & money & trouble.

Avery

tapper2 · February 25, 2011, 08:12:42 PM

I guess the detroit would be great long term, but as a hobby, not sure how much I want to invest in the old tired skidder. Maybe I could sell the detroit for parts or something. The rebuild (pistons/sleeves bearings and seals etc.) is around 700$ or so, but it looks like the rollers on the pushrods are pitted along with some pitting on the camshaft. Not sure I want to get into the $$ to replace all of these parts, and not sure it would be cost-effective to just replace some...but not all parts, just to find out the hard way.
I've got an older 250 cu.in. chevy that could also be the candidate........ But...if I modify just a little for the motor mounts, I'm thinking I should go with the V-8. I've heard they aren't too bad on fuel when skidding ,if you don't overdo it on the throttle.
The 3-53 was in running condition when I took it out, but not great. Coolant in the oil, really hard starting, even ith a sniff of ether. Removed it, pulled it apart, now...here I am.
Chevy parts are readily available and cheap. I bought this old skidder really[/u] cheap, so it's no big deal to modify/try/re-modify/re-try if necessary. Just don't want to work on it all the time, as the wood-pulling is for hobby.

This is the day I brought it home, still had the gm diesel in it.

treefarmer87 · February 25, 2011, 08:35:59 PM

i like you skidder tapper

ridge logger · February 25, 2011, 09:10:52 PM

I would fix the detroit but if you have your heart set on a gas engine I would ptu a 6 cylinder in instead of a v8 the 6 will have plenty of power and be a lot cheaper on gas.

tapper2 · February 25, 2011, 09:30:54 PM

Thanks tf87. It's an ugly dog, but will work to get what I need. I know the detroit would be more fuel efficient, but don't want to go $$ overboard. This is hobby stuff! I normally pull logs with my compact tractor (Ford 1720 4wd on chains) with a skidding blade I built, but don't have much ground clearance. With a diesel engine, it's a fuel sipper! I just need the skidder to get some great hemlock from the lower/rockier section of my wood-lot. My old Belsaw m14 would look nice sawing some of those logs ;D.
Anyone skid wood with homemade gas powered skidder?? Seen some great contraptions getting the job done. Mostly firewood guys. These guys built a wood-puller from an old dump truck, two transmissions with two speed rearend to gear it down and 2WD!! These guys would pull a hitch that would suffice any firewood guy.

tyb525 · February 25, 2011, 09:39:03 PM

Skidders made from old trucks used to be real popular.

fuzzybear · February 26, 2011, 12:42:09 AM

You mean like this one?

ridge logger · February 26, 2011, 02:05:26 PM

I used to skid loggs with a old 6x6 army truck that I made a arch on the back, till I bought my skidder. I still have and use the old truck to skidd small trees to the house for firewood at home.Its a great truck and cheap on fuel ,but not as fast or ass strong as my skidder.

shinnlinger · February 27, 2011, 10:40:14 AM

Ok Ridge Logger,

You can't tell us about and old 6x6 w/out posting pics. Forum rules.

treefarmer87 · February 27, 2011, 01:06:37 PM

i posted a youtube vid of a old army truck converted to a forwarder

Corley5 · February 27, 2011, 02:53:53 PM

The 120 Franklin I had with the 350 would burn a gallon of gas per hour. I liked it and ran it a bunch late last winter and spring when my Iron Mule was down. Skidded several train loads of wood and it reminded me how much I don't like climbing on and off one these machines to hook and unhook chokers. Measure real close before you try to put a straight six in yours. I don't think there's enough room without cutting back into the dash.
The one I had is long gone. I sold it back to the guys I bought it from for $500 more than I paid them for it 8) and bought a 3-53 powered Tree Farmer C5D. It's what I would've rather had to begin with ;D and I like it so much I haven't even used it ;D

It came up for sale just after I bought the Franklin and as luck would have it came back on the market just as the Franklin's prev. owners wanted it back 8) 8) 8) I've heard that they had it sold when they bought it back from me and made their money back plus 500 8) I've looked for their PH#s but apparently didn't feel I'd need them again

and they aren't in the book. Chris and Mike Cobb of C&M Logging are the guys you'd want to contact to find out who they sold it to. They bought it from one of the Morans who is I believe a brother to the owner of Moran Iron Works in Onaway. I don't know if he did the engine swap.

mad murdock · February 27, 2011, 06:46:02 PM

This thread has got me thinking about my machine??? I have priced rebuilding the fuel injection pump, as mine needs rebuilt, along with the engine that needs opened up and either sleeved, or re-ringed, (Ford 172 diesel). The cost of the injection pump rebuild from a few different shops is about the same $500-600. The OH kit for the 172 is around the same. I think at a minimum I am looking at over $1000 either way, and if sleeves are needed, it is $120 a hole to machine the block, more $$$. Maybe I need to consider the gasser option. I could get a straight six for pretty cheap, and prolly be out a lot less $$, and the ol' Garrett woudl have more snoose to boot. Where does a guy turn for info on bell housing adapters that would work on my machine??? The clutch is Ford, I think the tranny is as well.