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Figuring cordage

Started by Hanson, February 21, 2011, 08:25:31 PM

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Hanson

So the way I have always thought you figure out how many cords you have on the landing goes like this. Pile length X height X width รท 128 = number of cords. So my question is, is this this the correct way of figuring cords? It didn't seem to match up to the truckers formula, I think he was using a formula that I think used inches. Any help on this would be appreciated.

Is this the same way some of you out there figure your piles?

beenthere

How different were the answers for the two approaches?

If measuring in inches, he then should divide by 221,184 instead of 128.

Maybe he used inches just for length being it was 100" wood?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

justincase

In Maine we figure cordage by weight. Hardwood 5000lbs to cord, 4400lbs spruce/fir, 4800lbs hemlock. Some will argue this point because fir is heavier than spruce, and different hardwoods weigh differently but I guess it is an average. Trucking is usually then figured accordingly.

Hanson

I was thinking there was at least 40 cord in the pile, he took most of it and his truck can only handle 24-26 cord. This was poplar 100"

justincase

We figure poplar at 5000 lbs to a cord. They must either weigh the truck at the mill or stick scale it and you should be able to see a copy of slip to make sure you are being paid for what you cut.

barbender

Your formula should be right Hanson. Were your piles nice and neat? Sometimes a loose pile can shrink quite a bit when it gets stacked on a truck. Where are you at that the trucker can haul 24-26 cords? If it's going to a mill get a scale slip from him, like others said.
Too many irons in the fire

chucker

 i always figured with a pole deck piled in lengths.. for every 4 feet in heigth with at least 5 sticks long(100") and every foot in width is a cord!! so a pile of poles 4 feet high and 40 feet long totaled 40 cord!! granted like barbender said there is a miss with hollow spots from crooked poles or short? hey....
respect nature ! and she will produce for you !!  jonsered 625 670  2159 2171/28"  efco 147 husky 390xp/28" .375... 455r/auto tune 18" .58 gauge

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: barbender on February 22, 2011, 12:35:56 AM
Where are you at that the trucker can haul 24-26 cords?

Thats what I'm wondering. Even a full Michigan truck isn't that big...

Jeff

It takes a 40 foot trailer hauling 8 ft wood stacked 8 foot tall from the bed to get just 20 cord on.  To get 26 cord on you would need 52 foot of trailer deck stacked 8 foot tall the length of it.

Are you talking face cords/ Firewood Cords or pulp cord?  A pulp cord is 128 cubic feet. A face cord is one of those variable things. Around here it is generally a stack of wood 4 foot high, 8 foot long, by 16 inches wide.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Corley5

Your UP trucks must use shorter stakes than ours below Da Bridge  ;)  I've had loads of 23 cords leave my jobs and seen 25 cord loads of white cedar.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Hanson

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on February 22, 2011, 06:32:03 AM
Quote from: barbender on February 22, 2011, 12:35:56 AM
Where are you at that the trucker can haul 24-26 cords?

Thats what I'm wondering. Even a full Michigan truck isn't that big...
Sorry for the confusion, the trucker hauls with 2 trucks at one time, one with a loader and one is just a flatbed with bunks built on. Yes this is pulp cords I'm talking about, I'll just have to talk to him and find out what the difference in numbers is.

banksiana

Well, 13 cords a load.  Is there one more truck load left?  If so you are darn near 40 cords anyway. 

Jeff

Quote from: Corley5 on February 22, 2011, 08:27:01 AM
Your UP trucks must use shorter stakes than ours below Da Bridge  ;)  I've had loads of 23 cords leave my jobs and seen 25 cord loads of white cedar.

You would never clear the over passes if they were heading south Greg. The snowbowl road exit is infamous for taking the top row off of loads of pulp and Christmas trees.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

SwampDonkey

That's a big load (24 cords), they don't haul those large a load on the highways here. But, back in the bush they have a lot wider rigs, but they are slow on gravel roads and a lot of sway on the pup trailer on the back. :D Weee!

Hansen the way I've done road side piles is measure the height of the pile every so many feet along the length of the pile and I see how tight the pile is packed and make deductions for big gaps. If the pile is uneven in depth (from end to end of sticks) I measure both ends and average. And on the ends of the pile where they are sloped I only measure pile length to the mid slope. It's not as slow as it sounds. Treelength piles are usually piled quite a bit higher than 100" and with more gaps, but the pile is more stable. I usually find a logger keeps his piles pretty tidy, probably from listening to gripes from truckers over messy piles. ;) I've not had any huge discrepancies, but I saw all mill scales to, to compare. I haven't been looking after logging jobs for a few years now, but that's how it was done. I liked to keep tabs on wood flow. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: Corley5 on February 22, 2011, 08:27:01 AM
Your UP trucks must use shorter stakes than ours below Da Bridge  ;)  I've had loads of 23 cords leave my jobs and seen 25 cord loads of white cedar.

Sure I've seen 28 cord of little pecker poles on a truck as well. How legal it was I well........

Generally most truckers will tell you 20-21 is legal weight wise.

Jeff

Same here.  I've seen some huge loads. We had one guy that was working about 5 miles west of the mill that brought in several on a 40 foot 8 axle stacked 9-10 foot high. Doesn't sound like a big deal until you know he was hauling 10 footers crosswise. He figured since it was all back roads into the mill.   No way shape or form was that legal or safe.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Corley5

20-21 is what they usually haul here.  The 23 cord load I sent out was a load of 100" sugar maple sawbolts.  It was late in the day and a load to clean up my site.  The local DOT cop where the load was destined for is known for never being late for quitting time.  No over passes that way either.  Twenty five cord loads of white cedar cabin logs are common coming south across Da Bridge but cedar is light.  I sent a load of basswood pulp to LP in Newberry last Friday that I'm looking forward to seeing the scale slip on.  It was a big pile and figured by sight that there'd be 5-7 cords left if not a bit more.  There were two left and he was still light enough going across the scales at Da Bridge that he could have put it all on.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Gary_C

Do all those trucks have to scale to go across the bridge?

What do they have to pay to go across the bridge?

Here in Minnesota, cords is almost a forgotten term for pulpwood. Most everything is scaled by the ton and if you need cords you have to convert. I think the Aspen conversion is usually 4500 lbs per cord and Maple 4800.

I usually haul about 30 tons to a load with a 5 axle combination and that usually weighs about 92,000 lbs. That's in the winter with the winter weight increases. Without the weight increases I can only scale 84,000 in MN and 80,000 in WI. But after the spring load postings come off, I can get a permit in WI to haul 90,000 with a spread axle trailer but I can't legally get out of MN with that load.  ::)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

barbender

With the length of your hauls Gary, have you considered a third axle for the trailer? I don't know if it would do you any good in WI, but having that extra 10K capacity is sure nice when the hauls stretch to over 100 miles.
    Those loads you guys haul in MI are nuts, I'd hate to buy tires for one of those rigs. We might get 17 cords of spruce piled on a triple axle trailer, legally, in the winter. I've also hauled aspen that by volume should have been about 17 cords, it was all I could fit on the trailer. But it was so crooked and bumpy, it wasn't even a full load by weight, about 12 1/2 cords.
Too many irons in the fire

Jeff

I think the quality of our aspen may be higher here. Other then perhaps the conifers, Aspen would be the tightest loading wood we have in the state
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Gary_C

Barbender I have and am considering a third axle but there are so many problems to deal with that I have not done it yet. First it adds a bunch of empty weight for every trip. Second many of those long trips for me would involve interstate driving and they are not allowed on the interstates. Then the permit fees are quite high and I would have to pay in both MN and WI. And most all jobs require some travel on county and township roads and you have to get permits from those authorities separately to be legal.

They just don't make it easy.  ::)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

SwampDonkey

Too many layers of government. Here only the province is responsible for public roads even though they may get funding from the feds. One office to deal with and don't have to pay some county, district or township add on fees.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: Jeff on February 23, 2011, 06:59:29 AM
Doesn't sound like a big deal until you know he was hauling 10 footers crosswise.

We have a truck who hauls into out mill weekly that hauls 10's crosswise on the truck and pup and on occasion has hauled 12's in crosswise as well. Mind you to get into our log yard you are forced to drive on the state highway. He also is known for hauling 16's sticking off the back of the pup 8-9 feet with logs on top holding them from sliding off the trailer...

Jeff

He must have lots of friends. It only takes one enemy and a call to DOT and that boy could potentially be paying up the wahsoo!
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: Jeff on February 23, 2011, 05:40:16 PM
He must have lots of friends. It only takes one enemy and a call to DOT and that boy could potentially be paying up the wahsoo!

The DOT man doesn't hang around where he hauls from (backroads and just a couple mile jaunt on the highway). But he is a lucky bugger, he also rarely uses chains.......

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