Is hardwood over rated?

[DarkBlack]

I don't know if it's just me, but I have been getting almost, and I repeat-almost, as long a burn times from pop-corn dried 2 year old white pine as I do from 2 year dried red oak or beach. I mean almost. If you look at the charts the hardwood shoud give twice the BTU's, but, I guess that's theoretical. After 2 years my pine is featherweight, but gives awesome heat. Maybe the pine can dry better than the hardwood during humid summers? Anyone else notice the pine that some people will even drive to a dump, really isn't so bad?

[Dan_Shade]

the hardwood should burn much longer than the pine.

[SwampDonkey]

Must be pretty rotten hardwood if the pine burns as long. I just use a forced air furnace here and 3,   8"-10" diameter, 20" slabs will last 6 or 7 hours in 0F weather a bit less in -30F weather though, 5 hours maybe.

[Corley5]

Two 4'X8'X16" face cords of FRESH cut maple/ironwood/beech last me about two weeks.  The same amount of white/red/jack pine, aspen mix is gone four or five days sooner.  The pine aspen mix is not well seasoned but far from green.  I kinda like it  8)  Lots better than straight up green basswood  ;) ;D 

[SwampDonkey]

I'd freeze to death or keep warm cutting wood. :D

The neighbors have already burned 20 cords of wood, I saw them a week ago hauling in more green for the OWB. :D Insane. And that's all bought wood, haven't even started the 2 green houses yet. More energy wasted making smoke than heat.

[Ianab]

Pine would be the most commonly burnt firewood here in NZ, because it's the most common tree, the weather is not super cold, and the fireplaces are designed to to burn it properly.

So it's certainly not useless as firewood, and per pound (dry) it probably does give a little more heat. But per cord the longer burning time should put the hardwood significantly ahead. I know from experience that filling a fire with some of the local hardwood like manuka or eucalyptus will really generate some heat, and for much longer, once you get a good fire going anyway.

Ian

[red oaks lumber]

frozen cow dung burns better than basswood,if i burn dry pine i need to spend all my time opening the door and throwing more wood in. seasoned hardwoods burns far longer, just my observations.

[SwampDonkey]

Not only that, with good hardwood you have coals for several hours beyond the flames. In the shop, I need good hardwood for the boiler barrel to the steamer or it's not hot enough. Per pound dry pine wouldn't have more heat output, other than the fact it has resins to burn hot like oil.

[Corley5]

Even with forced draft green basswood rounds are a PITA to keep burning.  If they're split in half they're better but need to be put in the fire with bark down or they are still hard to keep going.  Mix them with some hardwood and it's a bit better

[beenthere]

.......Anyone else notice the pine that some people will even drive to a dump, really isn't so bad?

Bottom line, pound for pound, all woods are pretty much the same heat output. Variables such as pitch, moisture content, etc. can change that somewhat. Higher moisture content of the hardwood you speak of (2 years doesn't mean dry, just seasoned ) prolly is the difference you have noted.

Good that you were satisfied burning the pine.

[Corley5]

Green sugar maple leaves great coals.  Too many in fact  ;D   Shaker grates make it better 

[SwampDonkey]

Coals is where the sustained heat is. ;D Should try some dry maple. :D ;)

[Corley5]

Beenthere done that no difference  ;D

[SwampDonkey]

Maybe after you boiled the water off. ;)

[Corley5]

After the 1st two draft cycles the steam quits and the exhaust is clear.  Waters gone.  The worst creosote we ever had in the OB on these farms was from 30 year dry sugar maple that was stacked in the barn.  The creosote formed icicle like formations in the stoves.  Nothing like that happens with green wood.

[SwampDonkey]

I don't have any doubts about your experiences with your setup. But several old farm houses in the family have always burned seasoned wood and it takes a whole lot less when seasoned and burned in our forced air setups and no build up in 40 foot flues that a 3 gallon pale can't carry out once a year. By summers end what little there was is mostly fallen down to the cleanout from the summer humidity. And the green wood burners always had flu fires in similar setups in the neighborhood. But again we have two different setups. But, no matter how long it takes to burn off the water that's still a loss in heat. No idea why you would have build up with dry wood because the fire should be hotter and not smolder like green wood would do. The only time I've seen troubles with creasote , no matter whether seasoned or not, is with outside flues in the cold, not able to keep hot enough to stop condensation. You can also get trouble if your like my mother is, and think they are saving wood and putting in a small load of dry wood that burns quick, but isn't hot enough. That can cause creasote.

In my furnace my wood is dry enough that when placed on minimal coals the fan is already running in under 10 minutes. Already getting the benefits of the heat. This wood burning is a lot like an art form. :D I'm no expert, but I've burned a lot of wood through what I have and have also saved a pile of money in doing what I do.

[Corley5]

  When I was a kid we cut our wood green for the house in the spring, let it lay over the summer, gathered it up in the fall and filled up the back porch and part of the garage.  We burned 15-18 face cords a season depending on the season.  Dad cleaned the chimney every two weeks or so usually on a Saturday and took a five gallon bucket of creosote out of the connecting pipe between the furnace and the chimney.  Later we cut green wood in the fall and stacked it on the porch and in the garage.  Dad took the same amount of creosote out of the chimney every two weeks and burned about the same amount of wood    By late winter the wood was getting fairly dry  ;D ;)
  The 30 year old sugar maple produced the only chimney fire I've had in this OWB.  I've never seen any other wood create creosote like that stuff did and it did it in two Heatmors and a Heatmaster SS so it wasn't the make of the furnace.  It was the wood.  My theory is the burn cycle was too short.  The wood got too hot too fast and didn't burn off all the gases and other nasty stuff before the draft fan shut down and choked the fire.  The gases and nasty stuff then condensed on the sides and top of the firebox.
  I could stack wood in the shed to dry like I used to when I had the indoor stove but the time I'd spend unloading and stacking about equal the time I spend processing what little extra I might burn because it's green.  I'd rather back the truck in and dump a couple cords and burn it right out of that pile than stack it and then take it back out of the stack to burn it ;D

[albirk]

I'd agree with swamp on hardwood leaving a good coal bed but the problem i have while burning (oak)in my outdoor boiler is i need flames to heat the firebox not coals oak works fine inside in the fireplace not outside in the boiler give me dead elm maple dry or green as long as there is flame i have good heat (and sell the oak )

[SwampDonkey]

That sure is a lot of creasote Corley in the pipes, sounds like high moisture wood. ;) I wouldn't have a cool whip tub full in 8 weeks from 8' of 8" pipe. I brush my pipes into the flu every month. The flu only gets once a year brushing. I agree that your less seasoned wood dries especially if stacked by the heat source like in the basement. Mine is so dry (wish I had a weight scale) it practically pulls apart from checking. It has only been seasoned about 10 months before burning, but the dry basement heat dries it even further. My shop is small, I only burn 1.5 cords all winter in there and the house I burn 7 to 7.5 cords and I have an old farm house. It's not air tight like smaller new homes. I like to open windows 1) to change the air, 2) to cool off. :D  But, when I see a house using green wood on an OWB and burning 30 odd cord and digging it out of the snow, not for me I would be ahead burning oil and selling all the firewood I could cut to the neighbors. ;) There has never been a flu fire in this place. The shop stove pipes have next to nothing in  the pipes and maybe a cool whip tub of brushed off creasote after 5 months of burning. I have good draft in both flues.

Three days is all the time I have invested in stacking firewood for winter, for 7 months of minimum effort to feed the furnace for maximum comfort. ;D

[thecfarm]

DarkBlack,do you have a OWB,EClassic? I don't see that much differant with Heatmor either. I'm kinda doing the same thing too.But my pine has been standing dead for years.
No way to compare a normal wood stove with a OWB with blowers that drive oxygen into the fire box.I have burned dead wood in 3 wood stoves and have talked to others that have done it.No way to control the burn time.A OWB will smother the fire out.I thought the fire went out a few times when I first got it.I had to re-learn how to burn wood with a OWB.I burn dead ceder in mine OWB.The ones you see in the woods,hung up in another tree with no limbs on it.Works out very well in burn time,considering what I'm burning.The reason most people take white pine to the dump is some feel it will not burn good,even dry.Most won't bother filling it 6-8 times day.It is a bother to burn.When the wood is gone,so is the heat.No coals from white pine.I've filled a wood stove with pine that many times in a day,just to get rid of it.It's a bother.I just gave up on doing that.That's one reason why I bought a OWB.I see alot of wood wasted in people yards and beside the roads when the right of ways are cut.
I've never had any creosote problems and never cleaned the chimney in my OWB.I have a 3-3 foot extensions on my OWB too.Would look like a roman candle if I did have a chimney fire.

[Corley5]

Three days is all the time I have invested in stacking firewood for winter

That's too many 

[SwampDonkey]

Not when I haven't got to haul it in the winter and wade,shovel snow to get at wet wood. That's the time waster. I have neighbors as testament to that approach. And mine's in a warm basement so I don't have to venture out in wind and blowing snow. When I go out it wants to be on the way to the shop or some form of recreation. :D :D

[Dean186]

Pine and Fir is the main choice here in the mountains of Colorado and is what I clear on our property.   I burn the softwoods about 98 percent of the time.  I heat 4,300 square feet with about 8 cords of softwood per year, so it works.  When I do occasionally get a load of hardwood it does last longer, about 50% longer, which is what the BTU tables show.   

So, it's not overrated if one is thinking it is 50% better - right?   But, if one is thinking pine isn't worth anything and hardwood is twice or more better - then IMO it is being overrated.   I still wish burning hardwood was an economic option for me, but I love the Colorado mountains and softwood is readily available.

From the Charts we have these numbers:

     Cord of Pine, Ponderosa  2,380lb  15.2 mbtu

      Cord of Oak, Red               3,757lb   24.0 mbtu

      Oak has 58% more BTU's per cord

[isawlogs]

 When it comes time for firewood I aint prejudice at all. I do like to cut as much hardwood as possible , but if a dead softwood comes up its going into the pile, no way will I waste any wood. It don't last as long but I don't care, there is heat out of it and it aint going to rot in the forest.

[tyb525]

I've always heard you should never burn softwoods in a stove, because the unburnt resins can and will form lots of creosote.