Climbing Arborists

[Kevin]

Just curious as to what different systems are being used for climbing by our resident arborists?
Although I am not an arborist I do spend some time on rope.
I use a Pantin foot ascender, self tending(micro pulley) Distel hitch with tenex, Kong double handled ascender and I plan on backing that up now with a microcender.
I climb Doubled Rope, DdRT, and SRT, usually the latter two.
Haven't tried the traditional system.
Prefer a semi static access line... Kernmantle with the mechanical ascenders due to the tough cover.
While on gaffs I like to be tied in above using Safety Blue High V with a running bowline that has a long tail and can be retrieved from my position on the tree below.

[Jeff]

I'm looking forward to replys on this. I had a teacher that said learning a new language was good mental gymnastics even if you never used it.

[woodmills1]

Ya man Rasta be good language beet the edited outa ebonics

[AtLast]

Kevin,
Sounds like ALOT of extra gear.We "block trim" meaning doing entire sections of a neighborhood a day. We put in a ladder...find the best "pendulum point"  buck in....secure the main line using carabiners (sp) and work our way around the tree from canopy to base...asenduing = limbs ...desending = repel.... using the rope and limbs and such as " push point" and using the rope and saddle and weight distribution...typically a 4 D-ring none floating without straps...some guys use a spredder...some just knot in...some use  rescue knots and we ALL knot the free end of our blues....if we need to re asend and have no limbs than you hip thrust......I also rock climb....now THATS an entirely differant style...application...technique.....but completely differant from tree work...so personally...unless your rock climbing...get rid of all that extra stuff ...but thats just my opinion.. ;D

[Tom]

 :-/ :-/ huh?  ???

[Bro. Noble]

Jeeze Kevin,

If I knew you didn't have a step ladder,  I'd a offered you mine a long time ago :

[Kevin]

AtLast;
I use ladders lots too but not on removals usually off the strand.
Quick and dirty does it.
I don't 8 the running end of the line because I have more than I need.
I don't need an 8 on the hitch because I splice eye to eye.
My saddle is a Buckingham versatile with  rolling D's or I have the option of clipping into the fixed loops with the crabs.

Thanks Bro.

[Weekend_Sawyer]

Kevin, I counted 9 things in your post that I have no idea what they are, course I have never climbed a tree except the old fashoned way. I fell out of the big pine tree in our front yard when I was a kid and was cushoned all the way down by the limbs bending as I went down, only fell a few feet and did not hurt a thing. Guess that taught me to cut my trees from the bottom!

[Kevin]

I've only been climbing on rope for a couple or three years and I have picked up the latest methods.
The older guys like Chet  ;D seem quite happy with the methods they've been using and are reluctant to change.
I have never body thrusted and it hurts just thinking about it.

[chet]

Kevin is just trying to be nice.  ;D  What he really wanted to say say, is I'm just too DanG stubborn to try da new fangled stuff.   :-/

[chet]

The older guys like Chet  

What's dat 'spose ta mean?   ???

[Paul_H]

Chet,
I can only presume that Kevin made a typo,and was supposed to read  "the bolder guys like Chet seem quite happening with the methods...."   :P

[Stephen_Wiley]

Unfortunately, I guess I will fit the category of 'older guys'  wow that is a shock.  Thought I was still young at least that is what my wife reminds me when I go to climbing these days. (Your not as young as you use to be). :'(

  Come on 49 is young isn't it ?

Kevin,  I guess my methods are what you call traditional i.e.  I use a bow-line, 8 (for safety), Blake hitch, with 8 on loose end.

I remember 14 years ago, encouraging new developments in climbing. However, I think it has run amuck the amount of unnecessary equipment being hauled into a tree increases climber fatigue.

When doing removals I still prefer a *manilla / steel core lanyard over today's 12-16 strand polys and nylons.  When I first started,  a running hitch through the "D" ring is all I used. Then I switched to a prussik and have used it since.

* especially in large conifers and at heights 150'+

As far as climbing........ the ascenders are spoiling you.  Body thrust or footlock were the methods widely used. It is easy to belittle a previous method with the newer claiming to be far superior.  But the facts remain that safety and care of your equipment will exceed the method.  More important is that you feel confident in your abilities and equipment

In the early 70's the air force introduced the F-15 with superiority air manuervability. Unfortunately, someone fogot to tell our base pilots that (in their F-4's) during a demonstration the F-4 outflew the F-15 and was still considered more battle worthy even during the desert storm conflict.

I have seen failures with tied distal hitch's and the many variations of it. As with any new equipment or methods,  on paper they appear to perform better or safer.  Some of this is simply psychological the rest is in the climber's confidence and awareness.

BTW, take the extra 10 seconds and put an 8 are your loose ends.  Would hate to hear of misfortune even if the odds are 1 to 1000.

[Kevin]

What's dat 'spose ta mean?

Aren't you a month or two older than me?  ;D

I'll tie an eight on my shorter safety blue because it's only about thirty feet long.
My other access lines are 150' and the running end never leaves the ground.
My primary flip line is steel core and I like it.
I added a piece of what we call plastic tree guard for sevice wires to this wire core flipline and adjust the length with a microcender.
The distel serves me well, it releases better than the blakes .
I enjoy the footlock but the tree has to be suited for it.
The traditional method doesn't have the split tail, the working end of the access line is tied to the saddle and a hitch is tied from the end of the same rope onto the running end, this method is still widely used today.
Are you securing your access line with a bowline?
If so, are you climbing back up to retrieve it?

[chet]

Hey Kevin, I got me a plan. Next summer at da Forum picnic us tree monkeys could put on a demo. Jeff's got a hole yard full of trees. We could even have a speed climb using gaffs.  8)OH.........and of course we'd haf ta have a tree topin' competition.   ;D
We could even put on a felling demonstration if there was enough interest.  :D

[Greenman]

I keep it pretty simple.  My saddle has a floating D. I use 150' of blue streak with 8's on both ends, ascend with a taut line (guess I'm old-fashioned in that respect) and micro-pulley, footlock or body thrust, sometimes use a rescue-8 (the one with ears) to descend, sometimes use the split-tail method, depending on how much horizontal movement I have to do.  

Kernmantle is for rock climbing, not trees, unless it's for your prussik loop.  

I wouldn't bother with ascenders: more weight to haul around, and you have to switch over to a knot once you get up there anyway.

[Kevin]

Kernmantle is for rock climbing but because it is semi static and not static it makes for a good access line, not a working line for moving around in the tree.
I would not tie a hitch from it because it won't dress and set .
I started off with the rescue 8 for descending but they hockle the rope.
I don't switch over to the hitch because it is already tied on below the ascender, it's just a matter of removing the ascender.

Chet, you can teach me how to body thrust.  ;D

[chet]

Chet, you can teach me how to body thrust.

Sorry, yur on yur own .   :D

[chet]

I wonder how far we would get with our little jamboree before Thumper put her foot down.  ;)

[Kevin]

She's more apt to thump ...you know who.

[Wes]

 Gadget's! someones getting rich on all this stuff,Ive done a little climbing and have worked with a fiew excelent climbers, all the ones I know use only the basic equipment rope,saddle,knots, spikes when allowed, and a ladder to get started if nessasary.
 I watched a climber once that came to the job with a large kit bag full of climbing accessories, by the time he got everything set up,got in the tree,and set up his rigging on one limb a good basic climber could have removed several limbs.
 I know about the the benifits of this equipment but time is money if your in buisness for yourself.
 Thats just my opinion, the bottom line is for the climber to set himself up the way he feels most comfortable.

[Kevin]

Wes;
That's the truth.
I can throw a ladder up and take off a dead branch before I could ever get a line set in most cases.
SRT is fast, efficient and provides an additional safety and quick descent.
If I'm going to be the tree for awhile I'll go the extra mile.
I like being tied in on two seperate attachments when working down a spar .

[Wes]

Yes,there are definately times when additional equipment is required.
 Wes.

[AtLast]

  WOW..I do it the " ole fashion way" but does that mean Im old?  ....Im not knocking your preference.....you asked what others do so I told ya......I did forget to mention we ALL have a rescue  set up on our saddles...typically the same as forementioned...we NEVER use spikes...but thats only because we are trimming..on removals we have the luxury of a bucket....Ive shimmied many a big silver to get to a lead that HAD to go....but I always enjoy the repel after  ;D....sometimes Ill freak the new guys out and do an inverted repel....ever try that?...LOADS -a-fun... :D

[Kevin]

Actually the old method vs the advanced methods as opposed to old climbers  ;).

I'm not surprised by the results here .
I certainly seem to be in the minority though.
The main difference seems to be the mechanical ascenders and converting to an advanced hitch.
I'm guilty of not using a climbing line to work up a spar for removal which for me at least is dumb because if my flipline gets severed I'm history.
That is the one thing I have to concentrate on, the only excuse I have for that is being lazy and not wanting to take the extra fifteen to twenty minutes to set a line.
I know time is money but safety has a price too and you have to balance between the two.