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question for cable skidder folk

Started by huskyxp, February 16, 2011, 05:59:08 PM

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huskyxp

Just wondering the best tricks to keep twists and kinks out of my cable? (put choker on stump,roll out then drop blade and tighten cable and let sit over night) will this help or is there something better?  ??? thanks in advance

snowstorm

overnite over the weekend put a little oil on it

lumberjack48

You must be using a swaged cable, i think that's what its called, the guys will should tell us.

I could not use this for a mainline, it turns in to a coil spring, [ my wife told me where to put it ]

I tried everything to straighten it out, nothing worked, took it off and put the regular line on.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

huskyxp

thanks for input!! yes lumberjack it is coiling up before it goes through the chokers and i have to go back to machine ::)  cable is what would be used on a fish dragger 9/16,what is the best mainline money can buy?

snowstorm

the last cable i bought was from a marine supply store.....best cable i ever had

lumberjack48

I used to get my cable from the L&M or Fleet Farm, they carried chokers to, this was the cheapest place i found. [15 yrs ago ]
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

PAFaller

It sounds counter intuitive but keeping the cable tightly rolled on the drum during the day will help keep it straight. What really kinks them up is when you get loop and loose spots on the drum and then winch a heavy turn over them. A good tight cable over time develops what mariners and arborists refer to as a lay in it. Just like an extension cord. As you coil it up it will naturally want to go back to the position it was coiled last time. If you can try to do that with your cable it should spool out ok and then wind up properly. Another thing that really goofs them up is flat spots, where the cable is crossed somewhere and gets crunched. Once you do that, that particular spot wont want to coil right and will fray easier. Thats why I like a heavy duty cable, I work by myself and like to pull a pretty big hitch, so I run 3/4 inch cable thats swaged down to a 5/8. Its heavy but it lasts. I also like to take time to properly adjust the tension on my winch. On a gearmatic its easy, as long as you have the right sized allen wrench with you. John Deere winches are a pain, you need to take the whole darn side cover off. Having a drum that requires just a slight bit of tug but doesnt allow it to freespool and make a rats nest is what you want. Set it wrong and when you yank it looks like a little kid just picked up your new bass rod and tried whippin the lure out for all its worth, forgetting to slow the spool before it made a big ol' mess!
It ain't easy...

huskyxp

thanks PAFaller that makes sense! have to pay more attention to not letting it free spool,my winch is on a c5 (#20 i think) tension is good 8)

lumberjack48

I  worked with cable skidder 30 yrs, P A we never did what your talking about, that's green horn, behavior. If i had a man winding the mainline up like that, he'd be down the road.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

lumberjack48

huskyxp the reason its turning in to a coil is because its a swaged cable, P A is right with everything he said about the winch, ect, but this isn't your problem.

The only time i had this happen was when i put a swayed cable on, i tried 9/16 swayed down to 1/2 inch, i put it on both skidders on the same day, they turned in to coil springs.

I never tried it again
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

snowstorm

i agree with you lumberjack........kids.........from what i could find most cable is right lay its the way the cable was made left or right it depends on the rotation of the winch drum. i never wanted any drag on the winch in freespool. all that rigging pulls hard enought by itself. when the hitich hits the ground........ stop winch ......then release again

tyb525

Would wire rope hold up? It won't form a spring or get kinks in it, I've been using 7/16" for awhile now but that's not on a winch.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

donny hochstetler

youre probably using lighter cable than what i" m used to so its probably harder to manage I agree totaly with p a faller but we run much heavier cable   around here you can tell the quality of the operator by what condition the cable and chockers are and its like anything else to keep a cable in good condition it does take extra time also saves alot of agravation also where i"m from its rough so we do a lot of winching cant just back up to every drag an go  jmo  :)

oldseabee

One thing some folks don't know is which cable to use right lay or left lay. this link is to a guide about winches. at the end it shows  where to use left or right lay cable.
http://www.willardsays.com/dredge_winchinstall.pdf

MaineLogger

Quote from: huskyxp on February 16, 2011, 05:59:08 PM
Just wondering the best tricks to keep twists and kinks out of my cable? (put choker on stump,roll out then drop blade and tighten cable and let sit over night) will this help or is there something better?  ??? thanks in advance
It's worth a try.I've had good luck doing this with swaged cable.Swaged cable will stay straighter longer than regular cable.
380 Timberjack (cable)
230E Timberjack (cable)
648G Grapple
Husky 372's

Stephen Alford

Hey huskyxp, when I fuel up I put a cup of diesel on the main line.  :)
logon

VT Logger

PAFaller, you're right on. You can tell a good operator by the condition of their cable. The way you hook up your hitch can also mess up your cable. If you zig zag hooking up big timber you can turn the cable into a corkscrew. Working with that will make for a long day.

lumberjack48

I ran 10 to 100 feet of line out every drag, how can you hook up a 6 trees with out zig- zaging the line. The only time you get a kink is from a back lash on the spool, poor operator, flat spot spots caused from crossing and over lapin cable, very poor operator.

You can bend my arm all day, after 30 yrs of experience with cable, never had a problem with regular cable.

I don't care whose using it, if you run 100 feet of swayed line out, running 6 to 8 chokers, it will coil up on you, never had regular cable coil up.

Some times it only takes 10 feet of line to hook a drag, next time it might take a 100 feet

There's no reason to drag a 3/4 inch line through the brush when 9/16 is all you need.
When i logged swamp spruce, or row cut pine [ smaller trees] i used 1/2 inch line with 7/16 chokers.

Choker's, you only hook chokers from the right hand side, if you have somebody start hooking left or right they turned in coils, on use able

When i ran rigen in Montana, you got a week off for hooking a choker from the left hand side.

Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

tjdub

Quote from: lumberjack48 on February 17, 2011, 12:34:23 PM
I ran 10 to 100 feet of line out every drag, how can you hook up a 6 trees with out zig- zaging the line. The only time you get a kink is from a back lash on the spool, poor operator, flat spot spots caused from crossing and over lapin cable, very poor operator.

If anything, a little zig in the drag seems to straighten out the line.  Mine seems to turn into a coil spring whenever I pull a heavy hitch uphill the full length of the cable.  it doesn't seem to matter if the cable is wound evenly, it still gets springy.   When that happens, if I leave one choker up by the winch on the next pull (a less heavy hitch) and hook the choker to something solid to adjust the angle of the line slightly, dragging the next hitch up through that choker slide eye seems to help smooth out the line.   Not that I have much experience, that's just something that seemed to work for me.

mad murdock

What size winch are you working with?  I have a Gearmatic 8A and 5/8" mainline is plenty for me, as Lumberjack48 said.  Swaged cable is probably your issue, regular wire rope will work better.  They take 5/8" wire rope, then run it through a swage machine sqeezing it down to 9/16", this puts a lot of tension in the cable, that is how swaged cable is made.  Baileys sells main line wire rope, and chokers.  The main line I bought off Baileys was decent priced, I think about 90 bucks for 100 ft about 5 years ago.  Price is sure to be a bit more now.  Any good rigging supply house should have what you need.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Skiddah

I've always run 3/4" swaged down to 5/8" just like PA Faller, and I've never had a problem with it coiling up like some others on here.  The trick is to break it in properly.  The first few days, I spool it all the way out when I go to drag a twitch.  This helps set the memory in the cable, and they always cooperate. 

I used swaged cable because of its strenght.  I could hang my skidder off a cliff and not part that swaged line.  Swaged line also lasts a lot longer than regular wire rope, fact.

If you're really having problems getting the line straightened out, put the end choker around a tree somewhere off to the side and park it with the main line stretched full out and taut overnight.  In the morning, keep the skidder in neutral and spool the winch in, allowing the winch to drag the skidder to the tree it's attached to.  The weight of the skidder will spool the cable in nicely.

treefarmer87

i have had to do that a couple times myself
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

Mark K

I run 5/8 swaged cable the same as PA faller. Never had a problem with it. I have a 140 ft. on my drum and have it stretched out all the way most the time on this blow down site. Sometimes have to add a 100' extension on to reach some of the wood.
Husky 372's-385's,576, 2100
Treefarmer C7D
Franklin 405
Belsaw m-14 sawmill

JDeere

Quote from: Skiddah on February 17, 2011, 05:11:22 PM
I've always run 3/4" swaged down to 5/8" just like PA Faller, and I've never had a problem with it coiling up like some others on here.  The trick is to break it in properly.  The first few days, I spool it all the way out when I go to drag a twitch.  This helps set the memory in the cable, and they always cooperate. 

I run the same as PA Feller and Skiddah and agree with them completely. Taking time to run the cable out properly (no rats nests) and developing the cable memory is key.
2013 Western Star, 2012 Pelletier trailer, Serco 7500 crane, 2007 Volvo EC 140, 2009 John Deere 6115D, 2002 Cat 938G, 1997 John Deere 540G, 1996 Cat D-3C, 1995 Cat 416B, 2013 Cat 305.5E

lumberjack48

I believe i found the problem, i was running a different number cable then you are, there's a 8x25 IWRC cable and a 6x26 IWRC cable. :P

8x25 / 3/4 inch cable, rated at 51800 breaking strength
6x26/ 3/4 inch cable, rated at 76800 breaking strength, hang your skidder, you could hang over 15+ cords of wood

The breaking strength on the 6x26 / 3/4 cable is 25000 lbs higher, this a lot of deference in cable.
[ WebRiggingSupply.com]

All the ways to keep a mainline straight, stretching it at night and ect, i learned 35/40 yrs ago, this is all old school stuff and just plain common sense, but i guise that doesn't mean everybody knows the basics. 
I fired my brother-in-law for not keeping the line straight, pretty drastic, i don't think so, i told him one to many times.  >:(
The 1/2 inch line i had was so bad, that when you pulled it out 40 feet and you let go of it , it went right back to the skidder [ don't laugh, :D it wasn't funny ] i would stretch it at night, i trying everything with it, because it cost me about 3 times more then the regular line. ::)
I didn't throw it away, i make tow cable's with hooks out of it, because it coiled up so nice.


Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

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