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Need advice about logging a 5 acre heavily wooded lot in South Jersey

Started by juliegal, February 16, 2011, 05:04:35 PM

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juliegal

Hello,
I am totally new to all of this and I need advice on logging a lot that my Mom owns in south jersey 20 min from Philly.  The lot is wooded with trees of many species and sizes... probably 10+ are more than 200 feet high with huge diameters.  I would think that this wood could be useful to someone and therefore be worth something? The lot is just under 5 acres and is totally covered with trees... we need to clear it to get it sold - She has done this with land in upstate NY- but there are mills near there... I am not sure about NJ- how can I find this out? Would someone log a lot that size and how much could you get out of it? Who do you contact to find out who might do this in that area if I don't get lucky and find someone here?  If we can't sell it would it be feasible to have someone cut it and then use it for a house we are building in the South over 1000 miles away- possibly as wood for cabinets, ceilings maybe even flooring?
Thanks in advance for the help!

SwampDonkey

Are we talking the state of New Jersey? I can't imagine any trees being 200 feet tall in NJ. White pine might be 135 feet or so with large trunks I suppose. But 5 acres for a building lot may probably cost you to have cleared. It may not be considered a logging job to some. What about the stumps and brush? There is a cost in uprooting trees and bushes and moving earth around. Factor all this in and you can pretty much forget about getting much for the wood. Might even owe some, depending on the going rate for land clearing. It depends a lot on the species of tree and it's quality in the buyers market. Not every big tree is worth big money. Many fellows on here will tell you that white pine is worth less than $300 for a thousand feet of logs in some regions. Up here in NB it's worth considerably more. To put up a thousand feet of logs requires around 2 cords 4x4x8 feet in each of 2 piles, just to visualize what it takes. It's not just the piles, it's the species, quality and size that meets the buyers grades, specs and his prices (the mill) that matters the most. It's not a matter of looking at standing trees from the car window and ringing a price into the cash register. ;)

Maybe some others will chime in with some help on selling your wood, to at least offset some clearing costs. I'm not sure you will come out ahead until you sell the lot. Who said the lot has to be cleared to sell anyway? Lots of people buy wooded house lots. Is that some subdivision by-law?
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

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2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

juliegal

Thanks for the reply and info... I thought that 200 feet seemed a crazy height also.. (my brother in law's estimate)... I have seen them and can only say they are really freakin' big! ;D How do I find someone who knows what kind of trees they are, if they are good quality and what is the best thing to do?

The lot will most likely be used for low income housing- it is in a heavily populated area with a need for affordable housing (it borders a very nice little town, but is in a not-so-great school district) and from what I understand the cost to clear and shape it is what is keeping her from selling it (has had interested buyers and that was what stopped them from purchasing) I have a nephew that is a heavy equipment operator that will do the dirt work and shape the lot, but many of the trees have to go in order to make it an attractive piece of property in this economy- they want it ready to go... with no or little expense to prepare for building.  She is sick of paying the taxes on it (anyone from NJ knows what I mean- they are ridiculous for an empty piece of land)

On the wood part of it... if they end up being maple, walnut or something nice - would it make sense to have it cut and prepared for use in building our new house? Where can you get that done? About how much does that cost- where can you get it done? Would shipping it that far make it cost prohibitive?

Sorry for so many questions.. but thanks for your time!

WDH

Contact the state Department of Natural Resources or the state Forestry Division and ask to speak to a Forester.  They keep lists of practicing Foresters and can probably steer you to several that can help you.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

kderby

Hi Juliegal,

I am in Oregon but have seen similar situations and will speak to this question.  The first step is to speak with a consulting forester (paid) or the State Extension Forester (free).  They will not have an interest other than yours at heart.  These small parcels are rejected by most logging operators due to the small overall volume of timber and the misery of logging in a populated area.  For the land clearing service, I will predict that you will almost give the trees away.  Select an insured reputable small operator on whom you have done a background check.  Stay with competent professionals or the cost and risk of legal entanglements will skyrocket.  Land development and forestry are not the same business.  I expect that you have heard some of this commentary from others.  Expectations have to be carefully matched with reality or grief will ensue.  This will be a real opportunity for a small specialized operator.  I hope you find a good one.

Regarding using some of the wood in a future home:  That would not likely make economic sense.  I see people build things from trees that were on the old homestead.  That is for sentimental reasons and not economic sense.  The tree where your mom and dad first kissed might be worth making into a nice table, otherwise most wood is a commodity.

Good luck with your choices.

KD

Ianab

Some pictures posted here might help you get some better advice. Someone should be able to help ID the trees, even without leaves from their general form, location and bark patterns. Someone standing beside the tree gives an idea of size.

Things to look at, the diameter of the tree, standard measure is done 4ft off the ground, and you can just run a tape around the tree, get it's circumference, and work out diameter from there. Depending on species you might want logs to be 18" - 36" dia. Then look at how far up the first major branches are. If the tree goes up 5ft and then splits into multiple branches, it's pretty much "firewood", even if it's 100ft tall. If it's 20ft or so of clean straight trunk before the branches, then you probably have a couple of good saw logs in there. 90% of the value of a tree is in the trunk before any major limbs,

Like SD indicates, it's impossible to give a value "looking out the car window" as he puts it. But you can get an idea if a tree is worth a closer look, stop the car and check it closer  ;)  It is possible that if this site has been basically undisturbed for decades that the trees could be quite impressive size. It's the small number that makes it uneconomic to bring in equipment for one truck load of logs. However if the trees need to come down anyway, and you have an excavator on site to do earthworks then it may be possible to sort out the good logs and stack them on the roadside to be picked up.

As for using the wood yourself, it's possible. The issue here is that it's probably not a "one stop shop" that's going to be able to do it for you. The logging, trucking, sawing, drying and machining are all separate operations. While you might find a business or individual that does 2 or 3 of the steps, very few will take it right through. Means you need to co-ordinate the different stages yourself. Difficult if you are miles away. Browsing through threads here you will see lots of folks milling their own wood and building houses, cabins and furniture from it. Heck I'm still redoing my kitchen with wood that I've sawn myself, so it can certainly be done, but I also know how much work it is.

There is also the option of getting logs sawn on site by a portable sawmill operator, but you are still left with a stack of heavy green lumber, and are still miles form home.

But first step is still to work out what is actually there. Then you can decide if it's worth pursuing, or if you put up a "free firewood" sign to get rid of it. On another current thread there is a member that's on the trail of a 50"+ dia walnut tree. Now milling something like that presents it's own challenges, but it's something that's certainly worth the effort because of the value of large walnut boards.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

juliegal

Thank you so much for your thoughtful responses.. I really appreciate it! Will try to get some photos to put up, and will check into the resources mentioned above ...

DanG

Quote from: kderby on February 16, 2011, 10:56:35 PM
 Expectations have to be carefully matched with reality or grief will ensue.  

That's a good line, Kderby!  I'll be borrowing it from time to time. ;D 8)

Julie, there are people who buy logs from clearing projects, but there may or may not be any in that area.  Check with the local land clearing companies, as they would know about it.  Also see if that county has an Urban Forester on the payroll.  If so, he/she could be a lot of help.

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.  Be careful hanging around here, as you might become a wood nut. ;)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

TravisMVL

juliegal,
Please give me a call when you have a chance- (908)-217-6105. You can also visit my website www.middlevalleylumber.com.
I am in NJ (Hunterdon) and know what it is like to do logging and sawmilling in "the great state of NJ". There are no free forester programs that I am aware of, and you cannot get forest management under 10 acres. Your town will most likely require special permits to clear the land which you will have to pay. Trees are valued by the public in this state to all be left standing (apparently if you cut a tree down in NJ you are therefore destroying the environment and therefore a tree killer), but there are ways to show you are actually doing things responsibly and legally. I sickens me when I'm 1/2 mile back in the woods (that's as deep as it gets!-I've heard of PA guys being 5+miles deep) and some "good" neighbor (probably somebody living in a development completly oblivious to the fact that their land once was farm fields) hears my chainsaws and skidder so they call the Police, Soil Conservation, DEP, or some other state who ha (one time all three showed up on the same day), only to find my paperwork right in line so they have to leave me alone.
You are definatley looking at a job where you will have to pay some fee to the logger simply because the overhead of opperation is too high in this state, that is why I focus on specialty items and general hardwood stock (I do not do low grade or firewood because it does not pay in this state), off seting your costs might be possible to some point in trade for log value if you have nice trees, but 5 acres is a very small site.
I would like to meet up and walk out the site to see what you have available, but if you can e-mail me pictures that would be a huge help to start. info@middlevalleylumber.com

kderby,
Thank you for your e-mail in reference to this post by juliegal, I've been buisy latley and have not checked up on the threads in a while. All the replies I had a couple months ago for my timberjack 230D posts were very helpful!

TravisMVL

juliegal,
I forgot to mention that if you would like to have the trees custom sawn for youself that I can provide all your required services from logging, log trucking, sawmilling, kiln drying, and even furniture and cabinet making. I do everythying and the reason I survive in this state is because I am so versital.
The only things I do not do are chipping and stump grinding- the machines required for doing this part of lot clearing are expensive to maintain and are not what I'm interested in doing.

metalspinner

I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

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