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Ways to Split Big Logs

Started by Corley5, February 13, 2011, 06:40:22 PM

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Corley5

  I'm talking lengths up to 12' but probably more in the 8' range and diameters from 18" and up.  What I need to do is break them down in to pieces that will go through my Block Buster 14-12.  I've been looking at these http://www.usprideproducts.com/ but they are a bit pricey.  3,900 for the base model, 4,900 for the model that doubles as an auger etc and 6,900 for the big dog which also can be used with augers etc.  :o  You gotta process a lot of firewood to cover those costs.  I was thinking of attaching a Stickler http://www.thestickler.com/ to a regular skid steer post hole auger.  I would think that the gear box would be strong enough.  They are built to handle rocks etc.  Anybody ever done this  ???
  I've also got access to a large hydraulic cylinder from a garbage truck and I have a very large chunk of I-beam from a bridge that could be mated together to make a big splitter.  I'd have to add a pump, a power source, hoses and valves (I've got a hose machine), misc steel which I could probably source from my scrap piles and then I'd have the time and labor in putting it all together.  I have tractors that I could run  the pump with and could load the thing with the forwarder as well as picking up the split pieces.  Anybody ever build a big splitter ???
  I've got several whacks of BIG beech logs that would yield many many cords of firewood if I had a way to break them down into processable sizes.  I could leave the trees standing but beech scale is here and they're going to die anyway.  I could cut them and leave the pieces that are too big in the woods but that's a waste and there isn't a market for logs that big that aren't sound.  The good ones will go as hardwood bolts for pallet lumber or ties logs but a large number aren't that good.
  After this job and the beech on my own place I'd have limited use except for the occasional over size log I get in train load of wood or if I came across a deal on some extra large firewood logs....  Building a big splitter may be going over board and it would be a single purpose machine whereas a post hole auger would serve other needs as well.  Black powder is not an option  ;D ;D 
  I'm just about out of processable seasoned wood right now but have 40+ pulp cords of this stuff that's been cut a couple years and is pretty dry.  So I've got a need and a market for the wood right now.  I could have one of the US Pride Machines at my doorstep in a couple days from Minn.  I could have a post hole auger and a Stickler rigged up in not much more time than that.  I'd have more time involved in building a big one but probably a little less money if I source used stuff but that will take more time.  The time I were to spend building a monster would also take away from time spent making money at other endeavors  :)  Or I could buy some ash pulp to process for sale which would cost about as much rigging up a Stickler but I wouldn't have anything when the wood was gone and there are many more $$$$$ to be made making your own wood into firewood. 
  That's what I've been thinking about on the forwarder the last few days  ;D :)  What are your thoughts  ??? ;D :)       
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

beenthere

Have you ruled out busting them down on your Corley mill?
I'd imagine getting the halves or thirds out of the mill would take some extra rigging.

Interesting problem.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

isawlogs


I would go with the big splitter, a lot less to go wrong, the big screw busting logs is an accident in the waiting/making, I can just see the log start to spin  ::) An uncle had a small screw that he put on the PTO of the tractor to slpit wood, well that worked fine until one was not quite put on right !!!!
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Reddog

I would rig the splitter and use the Bobcat for the pump and valve.
That way your dad would have a spot to sit for a few minutes.  ;)

customsawyer

I am not in the fire wood bus. but have a small splitter that I use for my own use. When I get logs that are big enough to become a pain on the splitter I put them on the mill and just half them or quarter them as they are usually in the 20" dia. range and I can come down 10" make a cut and then turn it 90 degrees and  make another cut. I do this with the log in the full length. I then am able to pick up the whole log with the grapple rake on my tractor, carry it over to where the splitter is and cut it in to wood length.
I went into all this to ask if it would be a option for you to hire a mill or have one of your own and then you can do the same thing and it would not cost near $4000.00. Just a thought might not work for what you are looking at doing.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

gunman63

 Corley5, I went thru all this, I have a hakki 1x37 processor, so my size limits  are the same as u.
   I looked at the uspride ones, price scared me away as i didnt know how they  would work, they never showed  them on 8' wood and thats what i wanted to spilt with it. I did buy a stickler, welded it to a plate, welded a square  tube to the plate and used it on a bobcat auger head( borrowed a buddies auger head to see if it would work). used it on frozen wood,  green wood , older wood, all 16" and bigger, most  24" or so.  It does work, but it is slow, I have a 150 bobcat, so maybe a bigger bobcat mite  have more gallons per minute  so  maybe it would spin faster,  but i dont think the augers are suppose to  spin fast. the uspride ones look like they spin pretty fast , and are wider at the top so would wedge the log open more, I hardly ever spilt one with one time,  mostly 2 or 3 screws to the split, on the opening, one or two  on the halves, bigger wood  never seems to give u 4 quarters , some times they split out the side. I dont beleive they are the answer, not for  me anyways, been there done that. but the ends to  break off, are are not cheap to replace, the uspride ones have a bigger replaceable end should be better and stronger.
thought about buying a cheap bandmill,  dirty wood, some wood oversize for that too,  and the time sawing , i didnt go for that either, just  didnt think it would work for what i wanted.
  I think a circle mill mite work better, depending on the setup.
  I did also buy a splitter that runs off the bobcat that  does 3 foot wood, used it in my wood stove, that works, but is a lot of handling, but  so is all wood.
  I sold a lot of oversize and  really crooked stuff for what it cost me,  and  just replaced the wood with  wood that  would run thru the Hakki, that worked ok.
  Then  last year i got behind  processing wood, for this winter, put a ad in the paper for  people to cut and split for me, with there equipment, on a per cord basis,  had a few different ones cut, they used there saws , gas, spliter,  some did 2 cords a day, some  5 or 6, then came the amish/menonites.   they will do 12-15 cords a day, all by chainsaw and mauls,  big, small, crooked, they  cut it all, they are the answer for me, they charge me $25 a cord, I have close to that in it using my processor,  I havent used my  processor in 15 months, dont plan on it.
   I just dont think oversize wood is work the hassle.

Meadows Miller

Gday

Corley if they have low chance of having metal in them If it was me I would be with whacking them into 3rds on the mill then put them through the processor just teach your tailer to be ready with the cant hook to flip the first cut down on to the sawn face as saw severs the holding wood to make it easier to get them out of the mill down the roll case Mate  ;)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

bandmiller2

Corley,the way I would handle it is to cut the logs into the legnth firewood you want,split 1/2,1/3,1/4 on a regular splitter then throw the chunks into your processor.The heavy duty splitter I built has a swinging hyd. lift to pick up massive chunks to split,once in the up position serves as a table.I have used a screw type splitter and it worked OK but made me nervous,would only work good for you if you could reverse it to move and continue the split.Mill would probibly be the easiest. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Meadows Miller


Or you could go like Frank said minus the splitting and just mix afew bigguns in with each cord I know I would Mate  ;) :D ;D ;D ;D 8) 8)
4TH Generation Timbergetter

Corley5

 















  Here's the logs I need to split.  Some of them that is.  I've got at least this many more still in woods and 25-30 trees this size to cut yet.  I caught up with my cutters the other day and picked up this load.  Two of those logs were processor size and have been processed  8)
  Most of these are big enough that I couldn't cut all the way thru them with my circle mill to quarter them.  Many are over 24" with some over 30" on the small end.  I'd have to re-enforce my roll case to handle them etc.  ;D  :)  We could cut them up with chainsaws and break them down on my small splitter but that would be time consuming and labor intensive.  I don't like either  ;D  Their aren't many small bandmills around here.  I haven't searched one out to see what they might charge to break them down.  Hardware shouldn't be an issue with them. 
  The big cylinder is still available to me and I can have it if I build a splitter with it.  It's a telescoping one from a garbage truck.  I guess it's similar to one from a dump truck  ???  I was going to get over to his place to look at it and take some pics but haven't made it their yet.  How many gallons per minute would be required to cycle a large cylinder at a reasonable rate?   
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

bandmiller2

Corley seeing your last pictures and knowing you have a picker to handle the big stuff by all means build a long HD splitter.Would be nice if you had electric spool valve on the splitter so you could sit in the forwarder cab and operate the splitter.Split abd put the pieces right on your machine for a trip to the processor.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

sdunston

This looks like a job for the old way,Buck them with a big saw let them freeze and split with the mall, Its not going to look like the desinger wook that a processer puts out but it still puts out great heat, I am on my 3rd cord of stuff that looks just like your wack of logs 8)
Sam
WM LT28, American fordge 18x8 planer,Orange and white chainsaws, NH TC33, IHT6 dozer, IH-H tractor and alot of other stuff that keeps me agravated trying to keep running

mad murdock

I would agree with sdunston, buck them and split by hand.  I have run a few log splitters, and I can split wood way faster, and with not much more work than a splitter, by hand, unless you are talking nasty elm or some such other wood with tons of knots.  If the wood is not all twisted up on the grain, it will split quick by hand, with not much $$ invested.  One thing that sped up my splitting greatly , is to lay out old tires, put the rounds in a tire, and split it up, the kids do the job of loading the rounds and removing the split chunks.  I can split a lot of firewood by hand this way.  You don't have to spend time chasing pieces, nor re-setting up pieces that fall over.  The tire does all that for you.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Corley5

Bucking and splitting by hand is not an option.  This wood isn't for my own use.  I sell between 400 and 600 standard cords of firewood annually.  Paying wages to buck and split by hand would not be cost effective  :) especially on a product with already thin profit margins  :(  If that was my only option the wood would rot where it sits ;) ;D
  I did see the US Pride splitters in action at the Logging Congress in Escanaba in 2009 and I was impressed.  They were splitting large ugly sugar maple and beech logs at a pretty good rate but they were using an 873 Bobcat with Hi Flo.  I'd like to see one work on a 753 like mine with standard flow.  They've also raised the price by 2 grand on them   Either they're in high or low demand :-\
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

isawlogs


  Could you build a big splitter and use it along side of  and maybe run it from the seat of the forewarder. Some what like a slasher. Just thinking that it might be fisable if you could run it and load the peices on the forwader and reload the spliter till you are full ....
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Corley5

  That was a thought  8) 8)  I could plumb into the hydraulics of the forwarder and mount a valve in the cab with a set of quick couplers to hook up the splitter  ;D :)  One man operation that way too  :) 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

isawlogs

 

Yep , that way you can leave your help out in the bush where they can make you money .  :D
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Gilman

I like the idea of building your splitter and using your forwarder hydraulics.  If you don't have an extra internal valve in the forwarder you could operate a remote valve with your loading arm (some obvious protections for the valve and handle added by you).  You wouldn't have much money into it and if later you found out that you need a bigger pump or other features you could go from there.  But for the initial trial and first year you could get by with pretty much what you already have.  Better yet, it might just work perfectly out of the gate.

WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

mad murdock

hey corely5, was just thinking about an idea that popped into my head; rig up a wedge setup that you can put on your grapple of the forwarder, buck the logs, and pinch them apart, kind of like a pecan sheller my dad used to use that compresses the nut from the ends. If you were to rig up a wedge setup that you could bolt or pin on to the grapple, it would be fast, plus you could just leave the rounds lay on the ground, and sit in the operators seat, while you reduce the rounds to chunks.  What do you think of that crazy idea?  BTW, 4-600 cords of firewood a year is a lot of splitting, I wasn't aware you did that much. I wouldn't want to do it by hand either in your case! :)
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Meadows Miller

Gday


Corley just thinking you have a blade on the Tree farmer how about just making a splitter up that just lays on the ground that has a fixed splitter that you just line your log up in front of with your crane and then you use the blade and the traction of the machine to split it no hydraulics needed Mate ???

I take it your crane has 360 deg rotation and you can reach out in front of the cab ??

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

gunman63

Corley, there is no cheap or easy way  to process the oversize stuff, I know your looking for seasoned wood for this year to sell, but this  years firewood season is just about over, maybe a month left of good selling  well at least for me. Im pretty much the only one left with seasoned wood around here. by the time u get something  rigged up u wont need it. If your  determined to use it the 8foot splitter is the way to go, or do they have a USpride one that would attach in place of your bucket on the forwarder?
   When looking at building a splitter, the ram will need to be attached about a foot above the beam to push straight, thru that big stuff, once  your oversize i used up,  how much will u have each year in the future?  No matter how u figure it, I think its a money losing deal.
Like i say i pay the menonites $25 a cord to  cut and split,  maybe even if u paid someone $30 a cord to cut and split, 40 cords would  be $1200, and u would be done with it,and figureing your costs or breaking it down to useable size aand  processing cost u  mite be further ahead, or sell it in long lengthns, and be done with it, not everyone would want a truck load, but they could come and pick it up 2 or 3 cords at a time. U can  get it to sellable size but money wise its a losing  battle anyway, other than on a per cord basis.

Corley5

  I'm not just looking at wood for the remainder of this season but for the next one also.  It'll sell.  I sell wood year round.  I sell as much in July and August as I do in Nov and Dec.  8)  This beech would make for some really nice seasoned wood for next winter.  There's a lot of this kind of wood in my area.  Beech has never been worth much and most everyone left them for mast trees.  With beech bark disease here there won't be a shortage of this stuff in the next few years to someone with the ability to process it.   
  Due to liability issues I won't allow anyone other than my own crew to come on to one of my jobs and work unless they can show me proof of their own current liability insurance that I can verify.
  The US pride machines can be rigged to fit on mini excavators but they've got the bucket cylinder to control them.  It would just dangle on the forwarder unless I added a cylinder to the boom.

  This is the cylinder I could have to make the splitter.  The guy that has it was going to build a splitter to run off the hydraulics on his self loader but never got around to it  ;) :)  It's 58" from center to center of the pins.  It has four telescopic sections that I think would give it an extended length of close to 16' which is way longer than I would need.  I didn't stretch it out to confirm the length  ;) ;D  The piece of I-beam I've got in mind is in the 16' range.  I'd need one well over twenty to make this work.  It's got 3/4" ports, a 9" barrel and 2" pins.  Hmmmm... :-\ :-\ ;D :D :) 


Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Coon

You're gonna need some serious flow to be feasible.  I am pretty sure you would be better of building a complete system with an old engine and pump and such and like stated before set it up so that you can feed and operate it with the forwarder. 

It's too bad you are not closer to me....... Just today I got 113 gallons of used but still good hydraulic oil given to me.  One of the local municipalities is changing out the hydraulic oils in all their graders and some other equipment.  There will also be more later on too.  Most of the oil has less than a thousand hours use.   ;)   
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

bandmiller2

Corley,you said 3/4 ports so I hope there are two ports some of those cylinders used for dump bodies were single acting needing the bodies weight to retract them.A stand alone splitter would be best so as to not tie up a prime mover. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Meadows Miller

Gday

I was thinking that too Frank just an old car/truck motor would do the trick and give plenty of capacity too Mate  ;)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

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