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tie logs

Started by countryjonez, February 13, 2011, 05:19:21 PM

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countryjonez

do any of you guys cut tie logs for a main portion of your milling income. i have 87 acres of woodland,and getting ready to get my first sawmill.i am a contractor by trade,but would realy like to be making sawdust for at least the summer months.i was wondering what would be a reasonable goal to set for a monthly total of 9"7" tie logs? it will be me and my best friend.we will be using an lt 10.  we will be dragging all the logs with my old 79 ford flatbed and winches.i have a local driver that said he will haul as many as i can cut for 2 dollars each.i have no experience sawing,but i grew up in the woods cutting firewood and working in construction all my life and have been researching this for quite awhile. just trying to give you a picture so you can give me some advice,and help to avoid some pitfalls.
If God be for us who can be against us ?

tyb525

Just fyi, it can be tough making money cutting ties only.

If you can find a market for the side lumber (boards you cut to get to the tie) it might make things a little easier. Also, make sure you check with your tie buyer about their standards.

And I've heard horror stories about getting stuck with a contract, where you must produce X amount of ties in X amount time. If something happens to where you can't get it done soon enough, good luck. You may get a better price with a contact, but with just an LT10 I wouldn't risk it.

One last note, while it could probably be done, I think it might be more profitable to cut lumber from the logs rather than ties. That is, if there is a market for it in your area. The LT10 isn't a high production machine, so it's all about quality over quantity, you have to get more money out of each cut to make up for lower production capabilities.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

countryjonez

a good friend of mine has a milling woodshop where he makes hardwood floors and moldings.i also help him install.he buys 20-25 thousand board feet per year.we were hoping to mill all he needs for the installs and also sell tie logs.a local company got a contract with china for 10 million tie logs. i have the spec sheets from the company.no contracts with them required,buy on delivery as many as they can get. should have told you this up front but it takes me so long to type, i get lazy.post back and tell me what you think
If God be for us who can be against us ?

WDH

I think that you will work yourself to death with that small a mill trying to produce a commercial product and not make any money.  You are grossly under capacity for what you are attempting to do.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

tyb525

I agree with WDH, with no hydraulics and manual everything, it's hard enough sawing regular lumber with any kind of speed. 100-200 board feet an hour is about as good as you'll get. No matter how hard you work, you'll be limited by the low hp motor. The max log size is 24", however anything above 18-20" gets real slow.

The LT10 is a great mill, but it isn't a production mill unless you call production 2 logs an hour max.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

countryjonez

what is the right size mill for my market? i dont mind hard work.but dont want to be working for nothing.
If God be for us who can be against us ?

tyb525

If you plan on cutting ties logs only, I'd probably be looking at an older circular sawmill, or a used LT40HD. The circ mill will probably need some TLC, but they can usually be had fairly cheaply.

I work hard with my LT10, but in this case hard work can only go so far ;)

Are you sure you just want to do ties?
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

countryjonez

not only ties, but also fill my friends flooring and moulding shop orders.we thought we could cut ties while we can sell them,and fill the shops demands with the side lumber.how much are you getting for ties?
If God be for us who can be against us ?

Bibbyman

Better find a market and what they are buying - specs, etc.  It changes from time to time. 

You'll need some way to lift a bundle of say at least 12 ties to get them on a truck.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

tyb525

You might get away with cutting ties out of the low grade centers of the logs.

I don't cut ties since there isn't a tie buyer close to me. The price varies depending on where you are, but I think they for around 20.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

customsawyer

Ties are tough market to get into and the other thing you will want to understand is all the other things that will have to be done to the side lumber before it can be installed. 1. You will have to dry it in a kiln or air but remember to get it dry enough by air will take up to and maybe longer than a year.  2. It will have to be run through something like a 4 sided planner. 3. There will be some loss due to degrade of the lumber.
We are not trying to rain on your dream we are just saying that it is not very realistic with what equipment you have. I will also guess that since you are looking at the LT 10 that there is a tight budget.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

countryjonez

my friend has a industrial molder/plainer used to make hardwood floors and trim. he buys all the lumber he uses from a sawmill green.he has a 3000 board foot kiln.i help him install after complete. he is buying the lumber from someone already,might as well be me.we already do all the work minus sawing.we dry,mill,install,and finish thousands of feet a year.trying to fill the sawing gap as well.
If God be for us who can be against us ?

countryjonez

dont worry about raining on my dream.i posted for honest answers.the rain falls on the just an unjust alike,i just happen to wear mud boots.thanks for all answers.
If God be for us who can be against us ?

tyb525

You might as well give it a shot.

Heck, my mom bought the LT10 for me a couple years ago, and I've been paying her back since then selling lumber and doing custom sawing and such. It's paid for now 8)

If/when you get one, Busy Beaver Lumber or myself can give you lots of pointers and tips on it.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

countryjonez

thanks for that, i will be getting ahold of you.lt10 is a place to start.i hope i have years of sawing ahead of me.
If God be for us who can be against us ?

Ohio_Bill

I cut a couple thousand ties on a LT 15 and hauled them over to Spencer . The LT 15 while being a manual mill has a bit more hp . I think the most  I ever cut in a day was 40 .I worried about getting rid of the low grade side lumber but it was kind of like field of dreams . If you saw it someone will side a building with it  . I sold all the low grade siding for 40 cents a bft  and had  people wanting more .  If you don't mind me asking who is wanting all the tie,s  and at what price for a 7 by 9 .

Thanks
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

countryjonez

the sawmill on rt 14 heading to spencer is buying all of them they can get. 18 for a 7"9". all the local farmers are selling bunches.
If God be for us who can be against us ?

Ohio_Bill

The perfect tie log is 13 inch . You can get a 7 by 9 out of a 12 inch if its straight and you pay real close attention . I like low grade white oak logs , they don't seem to have surprises . You are very welcome to come over to Little Hocking and we will cut some ties and you can get a chance to run the mill .
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

Brad_S.

Quote from: countryjonez on February 13, 2011, 06:23:46 PM
a local company got a contract with china for 10 million tie logs.

Earlier you mentioned the Chinese are looking for tie LOGS and above you mentioned the local farmers are bringing in "bunches".... bunches of what? Finished ties or tie logs? If finished ties, then you may want to see what it is costing them to have their logs sawn and look into avoiding the sawmilling step. Or you may find you would make just as much by selling to them in log form rather than after you invest the time, energy and expense of sawing out a finished tie.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

countryjonez

ohio, i would be interested in coming over for a crash coarse or 5. i will send you a message in a couple of days.thanks.                                                       
If God be for us who can be against us ?

tyb525

I think he is talking about cutting ties to use the side lumber for his woodworking. That way he gets ties and lumber.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

countryjonez

i could use it all,including the firrwood.waste not want not.
If God be for us who can be against us ?

countryjonez

If God be for us who can be against us ?

tyb525

member Busy Beaver Lumber sells a lot of slabs and other sawmill waste as bundled firewood...you know the kind at gas stations for about $6 a cube. If you have a market for it, it might be work getting a firewood wrapper as that makes the job much quicker.

I sell all my waste for firewood by the pickup truck load (not bundled), or burn it myself (we heat with wood). I don't let anything go to waste, I even have a big sawdust compost pile going that is always growing.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

customsawyer

Well I will say that it sounds like you may have most of the angles figured out. There isn't nothing left but to do it. If it don't work you can always sell the mill. One of the main up sides to a WoodMizer mill is it will resale.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

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