ripping chain

[etat]

Thanks for clarifing although I'm not sure looking at a book is the best way to learn. Pictures too, may help in the initial setup, but as you know there is no subsitute for real experence, and when it comes to chainsaw millling I have none.  Wouldn't want to cut my leg off first thing. Now if cutting trees for firewood I could hold my own me thinks.  Not too bad at sharpening a chain. Pretty fair at figgering out what a tree's gonna do when you cut it. If the questions were dumb, they weren't intended to be so

[Toolboy]

Stephen - I've been a chainsaw miller only about 4 years now.  I originally started out to help offset the cost of purchasing lumber for my woodworking hobby.  And despite the hard work, Ive found that it's a real joy to do.  So much so that I find myself wanting to spend more time milling than woodworking, which is why I started milling in the first place...   :D

cktate - Phil's responses are about right.  I don't think that there's a lot of kickback potential except maybe just as you're putting the bar into the log.  The rest of the way the saw's go nowhere to kick back to since the rig holds the bar in the log.

One of the biggest problems I found early on was that I wasn't adequately planning ahead to maximizing my milling time.  Prepare a checklist of everything you'll need in the woods and run through it before you leave home.  Include one spare EVERYTHING on the list!   ;D  Seriously, if you break or lose something in the field you may waste 2 hours of daylight or more on your round trip going into town and finding that replacement part.  Break something on Sunday and you may as well pack it in for the day.

Christopher

[etat]

Ordered me a ripping chain.  Gonna try to split a log or two before I go any further.  Find out for myself.  Thanks Christopher
for the additional information.  I couldn't find the 'book'.  Must a not been a best seller! ;D  Still would like to learn more..............

[Duane_Moore]

  gona get me some too. sounds like good stuff, try it on some logs, then see what happens, gots some walnut sticks that need cut long ways,   Duane

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Sorry, CK,

I figured that I had mentioned "the book" so many times that everyone would have gotten tired of me listing it :

Chainsaw Lumbermaking,   by Will Malloff, published 1982 Taunton Press.  One source is Amazon.com.

When Malloff wrote "the book" he had been making a living at chainsaw milling for twenty years.  There are so many step-by-step photos of so many different parts of the process, that you would be amazed!   He even shows how to build a homemade mill out of two pieces of threadall, scrap 2x4s, and plywood!  If you update his techniques to take advantage of rechargeable drills and modern powerheads, you are ready for the woods!
Phil L.
          P.S.  Of course, if you don't want his twenty yrs.
                      experience, skip "the book". :

[etat]

Well, I had no idea.  Woulda made a whole lot more sense to me if I'd know there actually was a book.  Really, I just thought you were being cute and maybe took it the wrong way.  Hate to get off on the wrong foot and all, but again, I had NO IDEA what you were talking about.  And honestly, sorta got my dander up as I thought I was asking pertinant questions.Course If I'd already knew all the answers, or maybe even a few of em,  I probably wouldn't have needed to ask anyway.  One thing I enjoy about this forum is all the joking that goes on here without actually putting anybody or their idees down. O heck, maybe some of em deserve to be put down.  Anyway,  If that is what you were trying to do, well, I guess I owe you an apology.  I'm sure there others besides me, (at least I hope I'm not the only uninformed one in the world) that will be ordering this book.  20 years actual experience would be hard to beat, Seriously,  :

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Liked your questions, CK.
That's why I quoted them and broke 'em down one-at-a-time.

I have the same problem as Christopher/Toolboy:  Hooked on milling!  I would rather just open up logs to see what God painted inside.  I keep gathering logs which would have been wasted or burned - easily collecting more than I have time to cut.   Friends assume that my motivation to work this hard is the end product.   :

Too late for therapy!  I'm hooked!

Sawdust!  The anti-drug! Phil L.   :D  

[etat]

Thanks Phil, I got to go back to work now but later I'm going to search the computer for 'the book'.  Again thanks for the followup.

[Duane_Moore]

 8)  printed that one off, will try to find the book, thanks for the Info, Phil L.     Duane :D

[woodbeard]

It truly is a great book, but you'll have to be real patient if you want to find it at a reasonable price. And ya gotta love a guy who limbs with a 090 ;D

cktate, were you planning on using the ripping chain freehand ( without a milling attachment? ) I don't know for sure, but that might not be a good idea. Anyone got any info on the safety issues here? I know you're not supposed to use it for crosscutting ( bucking, felling, etc. ) What brand/model did you order?

[Paul_H]

Ten years ago I met  George,who was in his mid 50's.(died about 4 years ago).George was a local legend and had no fear of man or beast.
In the late 1970's he took up hang gliding and after awhile thought that he'd add an engine to help him along.It was a small town,and most had gathered around to watch George's flying machine.I wasn't there,but have heard this account from several who were.
Everything was going well and he was cruising along at about 300'. Then,wind or something caused the machine to stay in one place and he seemed to just hang there,stalled.He went straight down,wings,George,engine and all and hit a barbed wire fence.
He was pretty well toast,except Dr Moody was there and drained fluid out of his chest right there in the field,and George was sent to Vancouver where he eventually mended.Dr moody saved his life.

 I met George in the Spring of 1992,when he came to drive our off hwy log truck.He had a angry red scar right in the middle of his forehead,complete with stiches still in place.The scar ran from the top of his nose,straight up into his hairline.I shook his hand and asked "what happened to you?

George laughed and told me that he was having oiler problems with his 066 and had held the saw wide open with the tip of the bar close to a log,to see if any oil was coming off.He was closer than he thought,and the tip hit the log.Before he knew it,the bar hit him like an axe.
The chain brake worked,but the force still pole-axed him

So he is taken to the clinic,and Dr moody is stiching him up.He said Moody asked him,"did it hurt George?,does this hurt too?
George said he answered Yes! to both questions.

Dr Moody said, "Good!" :D



Kick back happens too easily,be carefull.

[IndyIan]

When I rip free hand, which has always been with regular chain, I keep the bar nose cutting last.  

So when I've got a big ugly round I can't split, I start the cut at the edge of the block and leave the saw at an angle upwards(maybe 30deg) with a firm grip and the saw wide open.  Also I try to keep out of the plane of the cut but not to the point of being awkward.  The 30 deg up angle doesn't let the nose get a run up the cut if the saw starts to kick back.  I've also ripped a few cedars trees in half for a quick bridge but they were horizontal.  I'm sure its not recommened but I think about where the saw will go if it kicks back and I stay out of that area.  
Also a 372 with a 16" bar cuts white cedar like a laser so I do some ripping cuts when needed for projects. 8)

Ian

[Sawmill_Bill]

Another "book" to get that is easier, is "Wood and how to dry it (FWon)".  This has an article that gives the essence of "Chainsaw Lumbermaking".  It can be found in many book stores.

[Paul_H]

Welcome to the forum Sawmill_Bill.

[etat]

woodbeard, well I was thinking about trying it free hand before I sprung for the attachments.  Using a old homelite HOMELITE SUPER XL-12 , it's about 20 years old.  Wow, I just now realized how old it was.  Has always been took care of and still runs good but hard to crank.  Not as fast as newer saws, but lots of torque.  Havn't ever had a lot of problem with kickbacks, seriously, If cutting a tree in the woods I always clear the small brush and vines back first, and make sure I have a clear escape path in at least two directions.  Whoever else is in the woods with me I like to know exactly where they are. I do try to be carefull.  18 inch bar.  Big ole heavy saw.  Usually use one of the el cheapo walmart kind to cut the small limbs, even if they don't last they're cheap.  The old homilite  is hard to get parts for now.  Just told em at the saw shop to get me a chain to fit it.  On the phone.  Now you making me wonder what i've got myself into.  

[woodbeard]

Actually unless my info is wrong, the superXL-12 was discontinued by 1970. Time flies when you're having fun, eh?
It may last another 30 yrs too. 58cc, so I wouldn't push it too hard. Milling is real hard on saws, especially smaller ones.

Unless someone has some experience to the contrary, I would suggest using a regular chain for freehand ripping in the manner IndyIan explains. Save the ripping chain for if/when you decide to get an attachment. Just seems to me that it might be hard to control because of the top plate angles.

[etat]

Woodbeard, I definately think you are giving sound advice.  I will give that a try.  I bought the saw as a discontinued model in 1981 or 82 from Gibsons right before they went out of business.  I think I gave 356.00 for it at the time.  I think the price before markdown was around 4 or 450.  I'm really not sure about the price. The saw appears exactly like this one.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dllViewItem&item=2365562425&category=20538 Now you have gotten me wondering, and feeling older, but I do know when I bought it..  I have cut many a cord of wood from that old saw, but not in several years.  The best easiest firewood I ever cut and split.  The year was 1985 and I have kinfolk who live in memphis but own about a hundred acres of hardwood on hills and hollars in Center, Ms.  She contracted with someone to cut her timber and told me I could cut up all the tops I wanted for firewood.  A few weeks after the timbercutters had packed up and left I found a large pile of logs they had not only left behind, but drug brush in front of.  I called my aunt. She said she had been paid, and informed that they were completly through.  Called me back the next day and said that indeed they were through, she didn't mention the logs to them and told me I could have them.  The logs were red oak, white oak, a couple of ash and one big ole hickory.  This was about the middle of june.  Fourth of july week I cut, split, and hauled out firewood all week.  My dad helped. I'm thinking there were about two loads of logs, and boy did they split good.  All but the hickory, I cut a few chunks of it and left that sucker laying.  Couldn't split it.  Man did that make pretty firewood.  About two weeks after I got through I saw a truck,and loader go down the road.  I followed em on my four-wheeler.  All they found was a pile of sawdust and that one ole hickory which they left.  I never did know if they had paid her for this timber, I always supect they were trying to steal, again, I never knew.  The circumstances were supect, but boy oh boy.  Didn't have to cut the trees, didn't have to worry about the limbs and tops, just cut em, split em and load em.  On their way back through, empty handed, they slowed way down and looked over my cords of firewood.  Kept going and never said a word.

[woodbeard]

 ;D Probably veneer logs too! Maybe they realized at that point they could have still made good money off them if they had been honest. Now all the extra profit they thought they had went up in smoke ;D

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Today I was cutting some Post Oak, knowing it had some metal because of the black stains.  Good that I had a "meaty" chain,  since I did hit six nails and one of my own broken deck screws which I had forgotten about breaking off.
I sharpened one chain and touched up the other.

This was a good opportunity to try the two chain types, which I had mentioned in another thread:
          Starting point  Stihl 404/.063 ga.  Rapid Super full chisel

           Chain #`1  Grind a pair of cutters at 0 degrees
                               followed by a pair of cutters with the
                                top plates reduced to just the upright.

           Chain #2   Grind all cutters at 0 degrees.

Chain #2 cut smoother,  but almost as fast as Chain #1

Once I get the 9-tooth .325 rim sprocket to match my new GB bar,  I will give a report on that.   I will be grinding my own chain on this, also.   The grid will be all cutters at 0 degrees.   The chain is semi-chisel type, so true rakers would not function properly.
Phil L.

[woodbeard]

Why semi-chisel, Phil?
Just curious.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Semi-chisel ???

'Cause I got it cheap.   :D

And, like I said before,  

         I AM SOOOO  CHEEP !  
I have run semi-chisel before, but it was Stihl .404.

Phil L.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Hope you had a fine Christmas, guys!  May your new year be a good 'un.

The only damper on my holiday period was having to wait so long to get my .325 chain gizmos in and prepared for business.  Of course all the eating, partying, family gatherings, and a little making-a-living thrown in, also slowed things down a bit.  Let me tell ya' ;  it was worth the wait.  

Jeff Sikemma provided the 36" .325/.063 GB bar, by having GB prepare and direct ship one to me.  (Great service on both counts.)   The friendly folks at Baileys set me up with the .325 9-tooth sprockets to go with the Oregon rim system which I had already bought from Madsens.  (Both Baileys and Madsens keep the .325 9-tooth rims on the shelf.)   The experimental chain came from  Baileys -  Carlton full complement .325 semi-chisel, which I ground all-cutters-zero degrees.  Once the bar was drilled and fitted for the aux. oiler, my Christmas was ready to cook!

Yesterday,  I played with a quarter of a Cherry Bark Red Oak.  Today,  without resharpening,  I cut 175 bd. ft. of Northern Red oak from a 20" by 18' log which had been lying in waiting for 9-10 months.  That was a good test: partly dry and hard!   The chain cut well, cut fast, did not break, and barely needed sharpening, after a total of about 205 ft. of these oaks.  The chain stretch was a little more that the .404, but that would be expected.   If a Stihl 090 won't break it, then it is okay by me.  ( In case you are curious,  I did knock the bark off most of my cuts.  Probably 90% of the entry area for the chain was bark-free and dirt-free.  I should say my fine 16-year-old son knocked the bark off!)

Thanks to Ralph Foster and Woodbeard & Kevin for convincing me of the practicality of .325 chain!

I will be matching 3 chains per rim on the .325 and matching two .404 chains per rim.   Needless to say, unless the cut is over 30" or the cut is likely to contain metal,  the .325 will see the most use from here on out.
Phil L.

[Oregon_Rob]

Phil, 8) 8) 8)
That sound like a winner. I love it.
Thanks for the details, it really adds to what little information is available.  :PWould you mind posting it on Yahoo, or i would be happy to do it for ya if it is easier. 8)

[Gus]

Thanks phil,
I was all set to go with .325. I got to my local dealer and he talked me out of it. He said he didn't think it would hold up to the punishment the 2100 would hand out and it would break. Oh well, will saw with this set up for awhile and maybe later convert over. Exellent blow by blow details.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

(As if I could ever make a last comment.) ;D

As I was finishing up my cutting last night (yes,  Jan. 5) in my short sleeves,  a single drop of sweat ran down my nose and dripped on the 1x9 Swamp White Oak board I was cutting.  Don't envy me too much up North, now,  we're having a sudden change and the wind chill will be about 5 deg. F.  tonight.    77 degrees yesterday and 22 tonight.   That's Georgia "winter" for you!

The .325 ripping chain did surprise me in two ways:
         I cut through fence wire four times and one really
             rusted 16d nail with very little tooth damage.
         Also, the Carlton chain held its edge just as well
             as the big Stihl chain I had been using - maybe
              even better.

Special note to Woodbeard:    The smoothness of cut is better with my homemade Carlton .325 ripping chain than with the .404 square chisel, no matter how I grind the .404.  That seems counter-intuitive, but maybe it has to do with the sheer number of cutters I have spinning now - nine tooth sprocket with more closely spaced cutters.  I am really watching the chain tension like a hawk.  That helps.  I borrowed a tiny 90deg. offset ratcheting screw driver out of my piano tool box, so that I could get in between the Alaskan thrust skid and the tensioning screw.   Beats the old scrench hands down.
Phil L. :P