Cutting groove for drawer bottom.

Dave Shepard · February 12, 2011, 06:37:57 PM

Any advice? MUST be a hand tool. I've looked at small plough planes, the Record #44 I think. Rob Cosman offers a non-adjustable wooden plane. I've also been looking at a Lie-Nielsen Larger Router plane. Not sure which direction I should go.

Holmes · February 12, 2011, 06:53:54 PM

I was taught back saw and chisel back when we had Shop. Holmes

pigman · February 12, 2011, 07:12:29 PM

I use my hand to turn on my table saw, does that count? :-\

SwampDonkey · February 12, 2011, 09:18:14 PM

I would use a fine toothed Japanese Dozuki and make a homemade depth stop. Then use either a shoulder plane (Lee Valley sells 1/2" to 1-1/4" widths) or a detail rabbit plane (Lee Valley sells 1/4"-3/8" widths). Pricey planes, but will last a long time. A routing plane that they sell would work to.

Dodgy Loner · February 13, 2011, 01:06:34 PM

Quote from: Dave Shepard on February 12, 2011, 06:37:57 PM
Any advice? MUST be a hand tool. I've looked at small plough planes, the Record #44 I think. Rob Cosman offers a non-adjustable wooden plane. I've also been looking at a Lie-Nielsen Larger Router plane. Not sure which direction I should go.

Not to get too technical here, but for the sake of clarity, the drawer bottom would fall into a groove (which goes along the grain), not a dado (which goes across the grain). The best tool for this job is definitely the plow plane. The Record #44 is an excellent choice for small grooves. I have an antique wooden plow plane that I use for the task. It is a little finicky to set up, but once it's set it does a quick and accurate job. I have found that I get a cleaner cut if I first define the edges of the groove with a cutting guage. The first few passes have a tendency to leave a ragged cut if the grain isn't perfectly straight.

SwampDonkey · February 13, 2011, 01:26:45 PM

As Dodgey pointed out, the plow plane would be a good choice to for the narrow bottom grooves since it is often a longer section than most saws. Was thinking of the back grooves/daddoes for some reason.

I like the Veritas hand tools I guess, not made in Taiwan. Can't be beaten. ;D

jamesamd · February 13, 2011, 04:36:51 PM

A router,with a fence if you dont have a table saw.

Dave Shepard · February 13, 2011, 05:04:27 PM

Thanks for the clarification Dodgy. There is a complete in box #44 at the hardware store. I also see them and the Stanley #50 on Ebay. The hardware store also has a couple of wooden grooving planes as well, but only the depth is adjustable. I think I'd like a plow over a wooden one, as the I may need to change the width, and offset of the groove.

Donk, I like a lot of the Veritas tools, but for some reason all of the planes, whether bench, block or plow, all have an odd aesthetic about them. The Lie-Nielsen planes are just Stanley tools, updated with better quality materials and workmanship. Maybe it's just the familiarity of the Stanley tools that I like.

SwampDonkey · February 13, 2011, 05:26:59 PM

I have two Stanley Planes and I can't plane anything with any decency. Frustrating as all get out. Just me I guess. :D ;)

SwampDonkey · February 13, 2011, 05:31:40 PM

Dave, what do you put on your steel to clean your tools. Wax? Anything with carbide tends to rust with sawdust laying on them, like router bits and some chisels. One of the reasons to make cabinets to keep stuff clean and dust free in storage instead of just laying about. ;D

Dave Shepard · February 13, 2011, 06:00:27 PM

I haven't been putting anything on them, although I did get a bottle of camellia oil from L-N with the Dovetail saw. The tools I use everyday don't get rusty, but ones that may sit for a few months will get a hint of rust on them. I just hit them with 0000 steel wool. I do have trouble with long term storage of some tools, so I'm in the process of scaling up my cabinet making skills and tools. I want to build a decent tool cabinet. So far I have the Dovetail saw, Veritas 1:6, 1:8, and saddle squares, Tite-Mark micro adjust marking gauge as well as bench chisels, set squares etc. The only thing I don't have, which I think is critical, is a proper bench. I may have to take my Workmate to work and clamp it to the shop bench to hold small stuff. Using an anchorbeam tenon only goes so far. :D

SwampDonkey · February 13, 2011, 06:21:17 PM

Yeah cabinets are a must. I have limited space compared to you, so I have to make shallower wall cabinets work. I would like to build some drawers to tuck away drills, routers, sanders, skill saw. But I will have to keep it off the floor because of moisture in the warmer seasons. If I hadn't already placed an order at Lee Valley, I woulda looked at their metal tool oils or whatever. Chisels I can run on a my honing wheel, but then need something to rub on that won't evaporate quick.

Dodgy Loner · February 13, 2011, 06:22:58 PM

Quote from: Dave Shepard on February 13, 2011, 05:04:27 PM
Thanks for the clarification Dodgy. There is a complete in box #44 at the hardware store. I also see them and the Stanley #50 on Ebay. The hardware store also has a couple of wooden grooving planes as well, but only the depth is adjustable. I think I'd like a plow over a wooden one, as the I may need to change the width, and offset of the groove.

I don't think you understand, Dave. What I use is a wooden plow plane. What do you think woodworkers used before metal planes became commonplace in the late 1800s ???

The depth of cut is adjustable, the distance that the groove can be cut from the edge of the board is adjustable, and the width of the groove is adjustable (I have 6 blades ranging from 1/16" to 1/2"). It is every bit as versatile as a metal plow plane, it just takes a bit more finesse to adjust properly.

Dave Shepard · February 13, 2011, 07:43:23 PM

I fully understand what you are talking about. I was saying that I would prefer the #44 style of plough (plow) over the much simpler wooden grooving plane. There are a couple of wooden plough planes at the store as well.

woodsy · February 14, 2011, 07:32:01 PM

Have you considered the Stanley #46? The skewed cutters make it a pretty versatile work horse for dados, grooves, rabbets, etc. Flacon-Wood might have one.

jamesamd · February 14, 2011, 10:20:11 PM

Sorry Dave,I missed the "hand tool only" stipulation :-[
Were it Me,I would get a Veritas #6 Fore Plane (expensive) buy an extra blade,grind a tooth to the rquired width/depth and use a clamped straightedge to locate the groove.Gentle taps to increase the cut,untill,You reach Your need.
The router planes,seem impossiable to Me.
Jim

Dave Shepard · February 14, 2011, 10:43:54 PM

That is an interesting idea. I have a lot of planes and extra irons, I might give it a try sometime. The hand tool stipulation has many reasons, one of them being I don't have a 500' extension cord. :D I've been studying different types of planes for this job, and I think it will be some type of plough plane, when the time comes.

jamesamd · February 17, 2011, 08:45:07 PM

My Son gave Me these for Christmas

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=64808&cat=1,41182,48945

They will clean up grooves but are useless for real wood removal but I won't tell Him that,I'll wait untill He borrows them and let Him find out through experience (the hard way) :D

Jim

SwampDonkey · February 17, 2011, 09:10:39 PM

I'm not sure that you used them in the proper way. They only make fine cuts not like big chips coming from a block plane. I believe the shoulder of the narrow grooves have to be sawed before using them or to smooth up a chiseled groove afterward.

Dave Shepard · March 16, 2011, 06:45:10 PM

I was given a wooden plough plane today. It's only got one iron, about 5/8" or so wide. I guess I'll have to make one narrow for what I need. Does anyone know how these planes would have been finished? I'm going to clean the dust off of it, for now, but didn't know if it should be oiled or not. I'll get a pic of it up. I'm guessing that the only way to get a new iron is to make it or cut the original down (not my idea) in the mill?

SwampDonkey · March 16, 2011, 08:48:22 PM

Show a picture of the blade, maybe it can be ordered instead of ruining an existing blade. Is this a real old plane or a modern one?

woodsy · March 16, 2011, 09:24:38 PM

If it's an older plane those irons are everywhere. Have you checked with Falcon Wood in Sheffield, Mass for spares/other sizes? They probably have complete sets.

Dodgy Loner · March 16, 2011, 09:35:01 PM

I would just try waxing the plane with a little paste wax. And you can pick up old plow plane irons pretty cheap. I got 6 of different sizes for $1 apiece. Generally they are around $5 apiece, I was pretty lucky to find them at that price.

Dave Shepard · March 16, 2011, 10:48:22 PM

It looks like it's a pretty old plane, not new for sure. E & T Ring, Worthington, MS

Iron is about 5/8" tapering from 1/8" to about 3/8". I saw many lots of plough plane irons on ebay, but wasn't sure if they would interchange. I guess the important thing is the taper of the iron. I guess if I bought a set, I could make a new wedge just for that set. The plane looks to be in good condition. There are a few chips in the threads, and the left side of the closer adjusting knob in the first picture is chipped.

Woodsy, Sheffield is ten minutes from me. I will definitely have to get in touch with them. Many interesting tools on their website. Thanks.

I don't have my camera in the house, so I used my cell phone, which isn't great in low light.

The mouldings on the fence are very well made. It's almost like looking at a fancy fireplace mantle.

Dave Shepard · March 16, 2011, 11:01:14 PM

I went back to Ebay, and those lots of irons all look about the same shape. I'm going to get in touch with Falcon Wood and see if I can find something locally. If not, I'll take a chance on a set from Ebay. First, I'm going to put an edge on this iron and try it out tomorrow.