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Jd 440 Steering problem

Started by mackaylake, February 10, 2011, 03:54:13 PM

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mackaylake

I have an older Jd 440 skidder with a steering problem.It will turn fine to hard right and fine back to straight.But to turn to the left I have to pull really hard on the wheel and it will slowly turn all the way left.The rest of the hydraulics work fine.Anybody have an idea what this could be?

Autocar

It may be your seals on the cylinder rod ram,when you turn it leaks by instead of pushing the ram to make the turn.
Bill

jeremiahdixon

Its your steering box. I had exact same problem with a 440 I had. I dont remember exactly what its called or how much it was but expensive is the word that comes to mind for both.

snowstorm

only one steering cyl. is double acting . i have had the same thing before several times.one time some of the nylon lock nut that holds the gland on the rod  broke off went thru the steering valve. other a part broke in the steering valve. it was25yrs ago  so i couldnt tell you what part broke. first off check the steering cyl brackets where they bolt to the frame in the front. they were known to break. if thats ok then the valve needs to come out. i would check with your jd dealer to see if parts are avaible. there are a lot of orings in there. if you have never rebuilt one....dont touch it....its been a longggggg time since i did one . you do need a dial incator they are very fussy. you just said old is it an ...a...b..??????c is different the newer ones use a helm or rotarty steering valve. dont know why one couldnt change it over if one had to. i bought a new helm when i put power steering on my kubtoa it was $350

doghunter

i had a 440b with the same problem(after a hydraulic pump failure) it was in the steering valve the problem is u cant adjust it on the machine you must remove it to set it and then reinstall it to see if u got it right i finally just bought a 230d timberjack and sold the deere sorry but thats the way it went for me

vt_forest

Sounds like steering valve to me.  I had a problem with my 440 steering about two years ago and still don't know what I did that fixed it.   :D

John Woodworth

I don't know on the 440 but the 540's and 640's I've worked on in the past the problem is in the steering valve in the base of the steering collum, generaly they will steer one way and if you hit the blade it will jerk the wheel the other way, if thats where your problem is comming from you need to remove the collum and take it to John Deere or somebody expierenced with that repair, won,t be cheap but will cost a lot more with someone who doesen't know what they are doing.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

mackaylake

Thanks for all the replies.I'll drive it the way it is and see if it gets worse.I'ts a 1971 and parts are becoming hard to get.

snowstorm

it wont get any better.its always cheaper in the long run to fix things right.

arojay

My advice is to get a service manual.  Whether you do the work or not, understanding the machine is beneficial to just operating safely and efficiently.  I don't have my book handy, but, depending on your machine(Powershift or Syncro-range) I believe that right and left steering are on different circuits.  Does the action of the blade have anything to do with steering effort?
440B skidder, JD350 dozer, Husqvarnas from 335 to 394. All spruced up

cord_wood

sounds to me you have air in your steering control valve. There is a proceedure for bleeding the air out. I did it 20 years ago to my 440a and to this day no more problems. Find a tech manual , it tells you how to do it. The bleed screw is on the left side  under the gauge cowl and just under you blade control rod. ray
181 husky,ms440artic,p50.2152jons,ms460artic

snowstorm

i read that the other day....it says shut it off open screw turn wheel.....but he has bigger problems than that

mackaylake

It started with transmission problems and no hydraulics.Got the trans fixed and it was that problem that doesn't turn the feeder hydraulic pump.So it is possible it needs to be bled.There was also nylon in the screen in bottom of trans.Could be a piece caught in the steering valve. I'm going for bowel surgery tomorow and will be down for a week.I'll check the manual to see about bleeding air .Thanks everybody.

beenthere

Good luck with the bowel surgery....and I'm assuming that is on you and not the JD 440 "bowels".  ::) :) :)

Re: the 440   
Debris floating around may be the culprit.

Do you get on jdparts to see the layout of parts and part numbers? Free registration but has all Deere models and equipment listed. Quite a site.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

snowstorm

Quote from: mackaylake on February 14, 2011, 02:44:58 PM
It started with transmission problems and no hydraulics.Got the trans fixed and it was that problem that doesn't turn the feeder hydraulic pump.So it is possible it needs to be bled.There was also nylon in the screen in bottom of trans.Could be a piece caught in the steering valve. I'm going for bowel surgery tomorow and will be down for a week.I'll check the manual to see about bleeding air .Thanks everybody.
nylon is most likely from a locknut......it broke.....i have seen the locknut on the steering cyl rod

doghunter

the packings on the steering cyls are nylon also i'd pack both of them just to be on the safe side

henderson440

We had this issue a few years ago on my fathers 540. We thought it was the steering cylinder(hoping it wasn't the steering valve), we repacked them both and same issue, luckily we had a parts skidder and swapped out steering valves. Problem fixed.

snowstorm

why couldnt the whole mess be swaped out to a newer style rotary helm. yes thats what they call it. it might take some plumbing skills but it could be done. be sure and get a closed center one. i made a power steering system for my kubota with one. works real good

redprospector

I replaced the pump on my 1973 440b a few years ago. Everything is dependent on everything else on these machines. I wound up replacing the blade valve, and the steering valve. Machine is like a new one now (except for a little slop in the center pin, and a few leaks here and there  :D) I found a re-built steering valve for about $1100 if I remember right. The blade valve is another story. They are rather complicated (it's a John Deere thing), and the dealer will smile at you and chuckle while he say's "good luck". There is a company in Canada that makes a replacement for the blade valve, but it is a real booger to get mounted in place.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

snowstorm

Quote from: redprospector on April 06, 2014, 11:30:53 PM
I replaced the pump on my 1973 440b a few years ago. Everything is dependent on everything else on these machines. I wound up replacing the blade valve, and the steering valve. Machine is like a new one now (except for a little slop in the center pin, and a few leaks here and there  :D) I found a re-built steering valve for about $1100 if I remember right. The blade valve is another story. They are rather complicated (it's a John Deere thing), and the dealer will smile at you and chuckle while he say's "good luck". There is a company in Canada that makes a replacement for the blade valve, but it is a real booger to get mounted in place.
you dont need that fancy blade valve. replace it with a closed center spool valve. back in the 80's deere sold a conversion kit to replace the blade valve. it was a simple spool valve

redprospector

Quote from: snowstorm on April 07, 2014, 05:48:53 AM

you dont need that fancy blade valve. replace it with a closed center spool valve. back in the 80's deere sold a conversion kit to replace the blade valve. it was a simple spool valve
[/quote]

Hmm. Now you tell me.  :D
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

snowstorm

Quote from: redprospector on April 08, 2014, 01:48:06 AM
Quote from: snowstorm on April 07, 2014, 05:48:53 AM

you dont need that fancy blade valve. replace it with a closed center spool valve. back in the 80's deere sold a conversion kit to replace the blade valve. it was a simple spool valve

Hmm. Now you tell me.  :D
[/quote] you didnt ask before

redprospector

Ok, I guess that's a pretty good reason.  smiley_beertoast
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Old Iron nut

Back in the late 70's or earlier 80's I worked for a chap that had a 440 JD skidder and every now and the the hydraulic system would screw up. It acted like it ran out of oil. We replaced some check valves in the front pump which we found later that wasn't necessary. There is a little oil pump in the rear of the transmission at the top that keeps the front pump primed. It finally got so bad that we could't use the machine. It turned the machine off to one side so that I had access to the rear of the tranny, drained off the oil in a washtub, and pulled the rear cover off the tranny. The suction line to the small pump was only held in by an oil ring and the line had fell out partially, allowing the pump to such air. I brazed the line back in place (totally around the line) and added a clamp to hold the line so that it could not vibrate out in case it broke again. Installed the cover, added the oil, and we never had any more trouble. This arrangement only shows how stupid some of these engineers are. Why couldn't they have the pump down lower in the oil so one couldn't have this problem. The oil line was only about a half inch in diameter or so as I recollect, it might have been a little larger, that was 30 plus years ago. Cheers, Old Iron nut.

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