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Anyone ever rent out their saw?

Started by fred in montana, January 31, 2011, 07:24:25 AM

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scsmith42

Quote from: Jeff on January 31, 2011, 09:30:25 AM
Donk, I never loaned it to them, I sawed for them at the end of the year, and they offered to store it. Can't imagine what might have happened if they had tried to run it.  This was a friend.

I would never rent my mill, but there are a certain few I would lend it to.

+1.  I've been approached about renting my mill - no way.  There are a select few that I would lend it to - I think that all of them are FF members...
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

kderby

A person with a project is probably better off to hire a sawmill with a sawyer.  That is why I am portable!  I come with a mill and with the skill to run it.  I cost money but I am fair about it.  Then you don't pay for the learning curve.

That having beens said, I rented (hours on the meter) a mill for three months and gained my first experience on it.  The mill is an older LT-40hyd and it got me through my first timber sale.  I treated it with respect and kindness.  I returned it and paid in full.  No horror story to report.  Then I ran another guys mill for shares, at his place but without supervision.  Finally, I went and bought my mill. 

I sure understand the concerns.  I have trained seven people to run my mill.  Three of them were superb.  The other three will not be running it ever again.  It takes a certain combination of personality to keep the mill running safely and produce decent lumber.  One of the guys figured out that while running the mill there were eleven things to keep track of.  Juggling eleven balls while turning big logs into little sticks is not for fools. 

I have done a few things to the mill that required repair (damage) and the repairs have all been accomplished.  The strong design of the mill helps.  A competent individual should be able to get from here to there without disaster. 

Someday when I do not depend on this mill on a daily basis I might let it out of my sight.  Meanwhile, a person who wants to rent a mill will have to look elsewhere.  There are plenty of mills sitting in sheds and out in the weather that could use some attention. 

I also support buying a mill, using it and then selling it.  The resale value is there.  The project should pay for the mill while it is in use.  Again the core strength is in the strong design of the mill.  The parts that bolt on are not sacred as they can be purchased.

Kderby   

Magicman

Last year I bought a log splitter from a Rent-All company.  There was stuff bent on it that had nothing to do with the splitting action??  It seems as though renters have no respect for machinery that doesn't belong to them.

A sawmill is a precision instrument that produces a uniform product.  The general public would simply destroy it.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

flibob

WM sells you a mill with a day's instruction at no cost.  Although WM is a great company I imagine their insurance requires it.
The ranch is so big and I'm such a little cowboy

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: flibob on January 31, 2011, 01:49:23 PM
WM sells you a mill with a day's instruction at no cost.  Although WM is a great company I imagine their insurance requires it.

This raises a list of good questions.

On the day you picked up your mill, how much finished lumber did you turn out? with the help of your Instructor.

You took the mill home and you started to mill lumber. How many blades did you sacrifice to the god of the side supports?
How much good lumber ended up in the edging and fist cut slab pile because you didn't read the log properly?
How long did it take you to become a proficient sawyer capable of maximizing the capacity of your mill while producing a good quality product and maximizing the timber to produce the maximum possible lumber available from that timber?

And the big questions,

Now that you are an experienced sawyer, how much finished lumber would you produce for the renter with you operating and him off bearing?

How much $$ saved in repairs and down time?

The economics will never work out in your favour if you rent to him, he operates while you train him and then be his off bearer. WHY would it even bear more then a moments consideration. The answer will always be the same when you look at it this way.

Are you insured to rent your mill and does it cover the renter. You don't even want to know what the premium is for that  much less pay that premium  
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
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Busy Beaver Lumber

A friend of mine owned a rental business in NJ and I worked for him for 2 years. We used to rent everything from pressure washers to large excavators.

I used to argue with him all the time that we should not rent chainsaws because every time we got one back from a rental the chain was trashed. I was also concerned about the laibility of renting them out.

He on the other hand would argue that he bought used saw for between $50 to $75 and got $60 a day for the rental. After two days rental on any saw, he figured he was ahead since he had his own sharpener for the chains and could have someone in the shop sharpen the chain before it went out again. Even if the chain was trashed, so long as the saw still ran, he figured he could slap an cheap new chain on it for around $20 to $30 and it least get a few rentals out of each chain with a sharpening between each rental.

I can tell you this, a lot of guys that rented his chainsaws owned their own chainsaws, and rented his for the day because they did not want to ruin their own saws for doing something like cutting a stump below grade or cutting a tree down that they knew had nails or barbed wire in it. In fact, this was true about many items that got rented. Contractors would often rent equipment for a job where they though using their own piece of equipment would render it useless and felt it was better to take their chances by renting one and subject it to the harsh conditions and hope they could return it without the damage being noticed.

So far as liability insurance goes, a lot of rental stores got their insurance through RER (Rental Equipment Registry) and pay a pretty low rate, based on yearly total rentals, at least that is how it worked years ago when I worked there. I was actually suprised at how low the rates were, despite the nature of the equipment being rented and the potential of harm to an inexperienced user. As memory served, he paid somewhere around $3300 to $3600 a year for 1 million in laibility coverage, based on a sales level of $500,000 per year

I saw how chainsaws were abused when they were returned. Had a few where area by the clutch was so packed with mud, you would have though they used it to did a trench instead of cut wood. I would not want to see what shape someone would return a sawmill in.
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carykong

I agree with the replies. I,too, would not be enthralled with renting out my mill.  However,I did spend several days sawing for a mennonite church member and his dad.  We actually created a very efficient team after about 15 hrs of sawing over about three days.  These clients were knowledgeable heavy equipment operators and gifted steel fabricators,hydraulic gurus, and carpenders. I eventually rented the mill to them for a few days. Just keep track of the hours and they compensated me on the honor system.  They returned the mill in better condition than I gave it to them. Under normal circumstanse I would not be inclined to rent my mill but I had absolute confidence in my friends to be safe and operate the mill properly.

Fil-Dill

My mill is for rent, as long as I go with it. A local guy here, loaned his out, only to have the guy bring it back and say it was a piece of junk. Found out they were sawing frozen logs with gravel froze to them.
EZ boardwalk 40

MartyParsons

We get calls quite often about renting a mill. We ask them their zip code and say here is a WM owner wanting to come to your location and saw your logs. The answer is always great this is even better than renting.
We were just discussing the in and outs of WM rental. We asked our insurance agent and his face went white and he kept saying the word exposure.

I am not sure if there is a requirement for training when a new customer comes. It is just the way we like to do business. I would like to say every mill that has left here the owner recieved training, but there has been some LT10 and LT15's not assembled. We usually have a LT15 set up here and still go over some things. The LT10 and LT15 have a nice manual and a DVD for safety etc.
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

Magicman

Quote from: MartyParsons on January 31, 2011, 08:37:05 PM
I would like to say every mill that has left here the owner recieved training 

As a used mill owner, I was invited to a WM facility for training.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Peter Drouin

No way, Im the one. the only one that touches the mill . I dont even let the customer get near the mill with there tractor, sumetimes they want to load the log on the mill.  go_away go_away !!!!
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

fred in montana

QuoteWM sells you a mill with a day's instruction at no cost.  Although WM is a great company I imagine their insurance requires it.

Really? I had about 15 minutes of instruction when I bought my LT15. I studied up on it quite a bit on my own.

The thing is pretty easy to run and I actually felt like that was plenty of instruction. Of course it is a manual mill so not as complex as some.

---

I see that many have a personal attachment to their mills! I guess I do too to some extent. I see the point about them not being able to take abuse like other rental equipment.

---

As far as liability, I think the chainsaw is more dangerous than the mill. They rent chainsaws all the time.

woodmizer lt15, mf 65 tractor
logdovetailjig.com

barbender

I have rented my skid steer out to 2 people in the 9 years I have owned it, only because they were trusted and competent. In fact, one of them is a WM owner ;D I would be even more hesitant to rent out my mill, especially being hydraulic. I went from a manual mill to the LT40HD and there is a learning curve. It would be pretty easy to bend the frame on one of the manual mills if someone dropped a bigun' on it.
Too many irons in the fire

taylorsmissbeehaven

I wouldnt consider renting my mill or any other equipment. When the man useing the equipment is not the man paying for it they dont mind pushing it harder than it should be pushed. When I bought my lt 15 (brand new) they loaded it on the trailer handed me the paperwork to sign and said good luck. That was that. It took a few minutes but I figured it out!
Opportunity is missed by most because it shows up wearing bib overalls and looks like work.

H60 Hawk Pilot

Look's like the Majority say...  Nay !

I'd loan my mill out to  two people  and they've did me some favor's too.  I would not consider renting my mill out to anyone unless they posted a deposit for 90% ($ 7,500.00) of my mill value and about $ 250.00 bucks per day rental fee. I'd want it all up front in $$ cash. Now, that would seperate the men from the boys and end the conversation.. really not for rent.

Avery
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hackberry jake

I know this is an old post, but I've been pondering this lately. With work talking about lay-offs, my mind had been wondering about what to do next. I was thinking about buying a boardwalk 40 and renting it out. I'll be there all day the first day showing them how to use it. I was thinking $200 for the first day and $100 a day after that. Plus $10 per band used. The ez boardwalk 40 uses 6" c-channel for the frame. That's what the 10,000# trailer that I haul the dozer with uses for frame as well (it's tough). My question is; couldnt you put verbage in the rental contract about liability? I guess I should get an apprasal on insurance to see if it's feasable.
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EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

red oaks lumber

the mill i have now i rent its a 2005 lt40 super . i pay $30 per tach hour, he provides blades i supply the fuel. he works full time and only saws some on weekends. the mill is setup in my saw building so, its not in the weather. real good deal for me :)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

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