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Looking to Pick Some Brains

Started by Woodboogah, January 25, 2011, 05:23:16 PM

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Woodboogah

I have been a long time "lurker".  This is a great site with a wealth of knowledge and I find myself reading and reading on here sometimes for far to long, or longer than I had planned on.  So with that said I figure there is no better place to ask this question.  I have been in the arboriculture industry for a little while, I did ok, paid my bills and lived.  Two and half years ago when work slowed I took the opportunity to go back to school for something I enjoyed, Forestry.  I really enjoy the physical work (chopping, skidding, and the whole logging side) opposed to just cruising timber and marking.  I know, or at least I think I know that right now is not the best time to try to break into the logging industry.  Maybe this is not true.  I am figuring with a background in arboriculture and a knowledge of the woods with a lot more to go I may be able to prove to myself that I am wrong and would be able to make some kind of a living working in the woods.  How many of you have started as the 1st generation?  How many are a one or two man show trying to focus on the smaller woodlots that the larger outfits wont touch?  I have experience logging but I have no real connections to a mill, or someone who would buy the logs.  I will leave it at that for now.  Thank you in advance for any and all info.

Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

Magicman

I can't help you with your question but Welcome to the Forestry Forum.   :)
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Autocar

Iam a first generation logger even though my dad logged a few logs for lumber around the farm. I work alone , and don't kid yourself no job is to small in my part of the country bid jobs are like a shark feeding frenzy. Its a tuff game right now insurances and fuel let alone the price of parts. Probably a good time to buy some equipment but payments will kill you also. I feel for some of these guys that operate bigger operations and have equipment payments ,health insurance it makes me shutter just thinking about it. Here in Ohio where I live if you don't have a job road side or when the wheat is cut in July your working window is September to maybe the 20th of November then its to wet till freeze up. This winter its been pretty good working plenty cold days. Not trying to scare you off but theres plenty of sleepless nights when you have a contract coming down to the wire and you got a gut feeling the landowner isn't going to work with you. But to be honest I wouldn't change anything its the greatest job in the world but a new Black Peterbuilt with twin 8 inch stacks would make it a little better  ;D
Bill

Woodboogah

Thanks Autocar.  I know its going to be tough.  I love working in the cold, yestarday it was 18 below at 630am.  Equipment didn't like it to much.  I am working for someone now that is good with trying to help me out with any questions I have and with the selling wood part of it.  I am fairly young and extremely motivated.  I like tree work, but I love working in the woods.  I am open to any and all info.   
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

Mark K

I'm a first generation logger but the same as Autocar, my dad and I worked in the woods during the winter. There's a lot of iron on the market right now with some decent deals out there. More people are getting out of this business than getting in. I mainly contract log so work hasn't been a problem yet. I do take on private jobs every once in a while. I've struggled pretty hard this fall with all the rain we had. Got to learn to budget your money for wet times of the year because no matter what you still have to make bills. I think my biggest cost is fuel. I'm just gonna stick it out until I can't go no more.
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banksiana

I have been thinking the same thing lately, that now may be a good time to get into logging.  Seems like successful businesses seem to buck the trend sometimes.  But I think right now the most important thing is to be able to foresee the housing markets upswing and get in when the demand for raw materials is high.  Right now there are too many foreclosed homes out there that nobody is needing to build new ones. 

PAFaller

I would say work with someone a year or two and really see how it goes. You can be told a lot of things, and it can make  a lot of sense, but until you are in the woods every day you won't really know the logging business. If you can find a job working with someone who treats you well and stay with them for a year or two you will have an idea how productive you are. You will also have to learn to budget, just as some others above me have mentioned, because with their operation you will still have to scrape through mud seasons and break-downs etc.  I lived in NH and went through forestry school in Durham, and I know the area pretty well. Woodlots are getting harder and harder to find, and stumpage prices are competitive. All the ambition and gumption in the world to go cut timber wont help you if you don't have timber to cut. Something else to consider before you dive in head first with an equipment purchase.  One other thing, if you get on a job and can make decent money, cut it with all you've got every day. I learned that the hard way, cutting enough to be comfortable but not pushing can bite back real quick when the quotas come out, the woodyards fill up, the mechanized crew down the road stomps you on a stumpage bid, it rains for 2 weeks straight, log prices drop like a brick and landowner you had lined up now wont sell, all while fuel prices go up etc etc etc. I love my job, and I'm thankful for the opportunities I have had, the lessons I've learned, and the people I have met along the way. But it ain't easy, so you best put on a seatbelt, the ride can be a bit bumpy ;)
It ain't easy...

justincase

woodboogah I am a first gen logger started trucking wood and now cut as well. I started doing it because I needed winter income having another seasonal business in the summer. I have been doing it 5 years and don't regret any of it. The hardest part is finding private lots and marketing wood. You have a lot of quality wood in your area (originally being from Plaistow) and some people there have no idea that wood is worth money. If you can find small 10 to 40 acre lots During these times there a lot of people near you that I am sure wood like to get some money from their land. Markets there are different then here. We cut a lot of pulp and are usually within 20 miles of a mill or yard to take it to. I know you can market saw logs because I helped a friend market his wood in Haverhill. Trucks will pick up saw logs from long distances. I don't think you have much competition there and should do fine.

Woodboogah

Thanks again for the advice from everyone.  The business part of this venture is not my biggest concern.  It will be different with different cost but I proved to myself that I could run a business and I continued to stay working while in school.  The people in the area think one tall weavled (sp) pine is worth a million bucks, that is what I found doing tree work.  But one of the things I liked about that is that I could educate the homeowner a little bit.  I am hoping that people that have their own woodlots will think otherwise.  Working under someone for a year or two has been a strong thought.  The person I am with now I was with most of the summer and this winter so far but it comes to an end this week.  It would be great to find someone as willing to teach as the person I am with now, I think the chances are slim to none.  Also, something I have been contemplating is equipment.  I have looked at older used skidders and farm tractors with a logging winch.  To start the farm tractor seems more feasible from a cost perspective and the versatility that is has.  The skidder would be more productive but no way to deck logs.  Also, transporting would be more costly with a skidder unless I purchase a truck and trailer (which I am not set-up to do right now)  I know they both have their place.  Any thoughts on this?   Again, thanks to all who replied and keep the info coming. 
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

CX3

woodbuggah, I am a first gen logger.  I started on my own with no money in the bank, and loans on all equipment.  I even borrowed money for a chainsaw, and borrowed a saw.  Im not saying Im rich, but its possible to jump right in and start having at it.  Being your own boss is the hard part.  A man wants to do other stuff besides work sometimes ;D  You have to ADVERTISE and let folks know you are doing logging type work.  I prey on small jobs.  The small lots around homesteads have some excellent big timber on them.  Also people are broke right now, as stated, and if they know you will buy those trees, the logs start hitting the ground.  As far as selling the wood, thats easy.  Get the phone book and start calling sawmills, pulp mills, and even the companies that make the pellets for pellet stoves.  They buy lots of timber(I am speaking around my area here). 

As far as equipment, get a skidder.  Get a used, small skidder, with good tires.  One that is used everyday and the owner dont mind you trying it out for five hours.  You will know if its the one you need.  You can have it hauled by any guy that owns a dumptruck and trailer for very reasonable.  I get my skidder moved for 150 any where I go.  Also, pay another logger to haul logs for ya at first.  It costs a little, but your not out the money for a truck and picker.  Another tip, make sure that hauler knows whos wood he has on the truck.  You have to tell him when your logs are on his truck, that he is working for you.  In case someone stops him and asks about the logs or logging.  There has been many patches of timber bought by a guy driving a truck hauling someone elses logs.  If hes any man at all, he will refer your name.  And when you get so swamped with timber contracts you cant breathe, you can refer him.  Logging is an awesome job.  You can make some real money.  You can lose some real money at the slighest transmission blow out too.  But all in all, its worth every headache.  Treat buying timber like a 40 hour a week job, and it will pay all dividends.  My fingers are tired, Good Luck.
John 3:16
You Better Believe It!

bill m

I started my business about 21 years ago doing tree work in summer and logging and firewood in winters. When things got busy I gave up logging and just did tree work with a crew of 6. Now I have gone back to just logging by myself - no employees. Skidders can move a lot of wood but a farm tractor with a winch can also do the job. This picture is of some of last winters production.

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