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Growing burls

Started by jim king, January 25, 2011, 08:01:48 AM

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jim king

I have taken shoots off of burls and had them cloned thinking that possibly I was going to have burl trees.  Long story short they are regular trees and no figure.

Does any one have any experience with any type of damage or any other factor that has ever made a burl form ??

If I could get a couple of acres of exotic burls growing my great grand children would have a very valuable nest egg from their crazy old ancester that lived in the  jungle.. 

Burlkraft

On my farm I made cherry burls out of the scrub choke cherry trees that were growing there.

I was cutting firewood one day and saved a burl out of the scrubs I was sawing up.

When I turned the burl there was a .30 caliber bullet in the center. My brother is a rotten shot and carried a .30-.30 for deer. In one of his magazine emptying tirades he must have shot this tree.

I took my .22 and went out and selected some test trees and shot them.

Out of 10 trees 9 had volley ball sized burls in 2 years!

I harvested quite a few burls from those trees in 10 years  ;D ;D ;D

Ya might give that a try it worked well for me
Why not just 1 pain free day?

Papa1stuff

1987 PB Grader with forks added to bucket
2--2008 455 Rancher Husky
WM CBN Sharpener & Setter

doctorb

Is it the bullet itself that causes this reaction (lead?)or is it just the penetrating damage of the impact?  I have got to think that it's a reaction to the bullet.  If not, you could just take a drill to the trees to cause this malformation.  Maybe you could drill the tree, then implant something to cause the tree to grow like that, like culturing a pearl.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Burlkraft

I believe that the penetration is what does it.

In these cherry's,in the natural burls, I have found lots of bug damage in them also

I came to the determination that damage makes the burl.

I am kinda old and prolly all wet too!
Why not just 1 pain free day?

Patty

So I could go out and drill some cherry trees and get cherry burls? How cool is that!   8)
Women are Angels.
And when someone breaks our wings....
We simply continue to fly ........
on a broomstick.....
We are flexible like that.

Jeff

I doubt if the hole is the trauma, but the shock of the impact.  Maples are drilled all the time for tapping for syrup, but that does not tent to cause burls, however maples can be a great source for burls "in the wild". so to speak. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

jim king

Burlkraft:

I can try that with no problem.  Did you only try it on small trees or on larger ones also ?

What size worked for you?

That system could make an acre worth a few million if it works here.  Did you try more than one per tree ?

Patty

Yes we need details.....
Women are Angels.
And when someone breaks our wings....
We simply continue to fly ........
on a broomstick.....
We are flexible like that.

jim king

Do we now address him as Professor Burlkraft ¿  Is he running out there to take a picture ?

Burlkraft

Jim.....The trees I was shooting were scrubs.

Tall and spindly.

I have gotten basketball sized burls from 8" trees
Why not just 1 pain free day?

jim king

I am sending out for some 410 slugs.  I cant wait for the look on the guys face when I tell him to go out and shoot a couple of hundred baby trees.


Left Coast Chris

Hi Jim,

I have a 3000lb flail mower for my English Walnut orchard and hit a few trees.   It does seem to produce some burls.    The root stock is black walnut and that is where the burl starts.   The trees need to be young.  The bigger ones are growing slower and not much happens.   

Another type of burl is all around the whole base in the ground.   Im not sure but I believe that it is caused from the black walnut being more vigorous than the English grafted to it.  The Black Walnut then begins to sucker.   The suckers must be trimmed so as not to ruin the burl.    The trees get fertilizer making them want to grow also which could be a factor.

If there was a slower growing tree you could graft to the stump you may get some burls going that were not just the basket balls but all the way around the stump.  They are the prize burls for veneering.
Home built cantilever head, 24 HP honda mill, Case 580D, MF 135 and one Squirel Dog Jack Russel Mix -- Crickett

Bill Gaiche

I cant wait for the look on the guys face when I tell him to go out and shoot a couple of hundred baby trees.

Jim that funny. Makes me wonder when the feds read this what kind of rules will have to made to protect these poor little trees from gangester style loggers. bg


isawlogs

 No small tree in the States is safe now  ::) :D :D :D

Time to buy shares in the .22cal market!!!!
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

SPIKER

hummm  how small a tree we talking here? 2" 4" or 10"?

:)

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

CX3

Hey burlkraft how many times did ya blast that tree youre standing by in your thumbnail?? :D
John 3:16
You Better Believe It!

Jeff

I allowed him to stand next to that tree. ;)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

CX3

While you shot at it? :D
John 3:16
You Better Believe It!

Jeff

No, while I tried to ride it.  :) 

  This one didn't need shooting. It grew that way on its own.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Burlkraft

Quote from: SPIKER on January 25, 2011, 09:01:31 PM
hummm  how small a tree we talking here? 2" 4" or 10"?

:)

Mark

I cut some pretty nice burls from 8" trees.

They grow like that here 8" X 60'
I have gotten a beach ball sized really nice solid burl from a tree like that.

One in every 3 or 4 are like that it seems

If I don't have some pictures somewhere I can take some.

I know Pasbuild gets 'em like that in the UP on the west end there
Why not just 1 pain free day?

Jeff

They wanted to know what size they should be when you shoot em.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

pigman

If I was doing the shooting, the tree would have to be big or I would miss the tree. ::)
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

isawlogs

Bob , alls ya need do is aim at the tree next to the one ya want ta hit  ;)


  Marcel shootin' adviser
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

SwampDonkey

Around here you don't even have to touch or even breath on any of these black cherries (different than a choke cherry), they all get burls once the black knot drifts in the wind and germinates on the cherry. :D





Jim see if you can train a wasp that stings buds of trees to change their morphology. But, then again, do tropical trees have a resting period to form a bud? :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron Wenrich

So, are you saying that shooting a cherry tree will give an entrance for the black knot spores? 

What species have you tried shooting on?  If shooting is the trigger mechanism, then it should work on multiple species.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

isawlogs


Use a shotgun and pepper the forest  smiley_smug01
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Burlkraft

Jeff and I tried to secure a burl the size of a VW in Da UP

We cudda got it if we were dealin' with the guy....The woman wanted waaaay more than we offered  ::)  ::)

The Burl is gonna sit in the sun in front of their garage for years and just degrade right before their very eyes  :-\ :-\
Why not just 1 pain free day?

isawlogs

Quote from: Burlkraft on January 26, 2011, 08:15:48 AM
a burl the size of a VW in Da UP

  Did ya use a 50cal. on that one ...   ;D :D
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

jim king

It will be a slaughter out there this morning.  Absolute randam indiscriminate shooting of adolecent and baby trees.  Some gut shot some in the foot and some high.

Jeff

Jim are you going to record the data on this, or is it truly going to be indiscriminate?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

jim king

I have a 40 hectare test plot 46 KM outside of town and  a 6 KM walk in where we are measuring growth of various species, the amount lost every year by simply falling over to rot ect.  For this escapade each entry hole will be painted with enamel paint and a yellow ring painted around each tree shot so we can find them again.

Six man operation for the day, they left at daylight.

Two live chickens
4 kilos spegettii
1 kilo salt
2 kilos sugar
4 machetes
1 liter cooking oil
1 kilo rice
6 packages of spegettii sauce
220 410 shotgun slugs
A bag of bread

10 gallons of enamel paint and brushes.



I am interested most in Bloodwood, Tigre Caspi, Pink flame and Dalmation plus they will do several species.  If this works Burlkraft in a couple of years will have lots of nice toys to work with .











Ron Wenrich

I wonder if major battlefields have an overabundance of burls. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Burlkraft

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on January 26, 2011, 09:58:13 AM
I wonder if major battlefields have an overabundance of burls. 

I know the mall in DC has lots of burl trees. I could hardly contain myself   ;D
Why not just 1 pain free day?

jim king

Here are a couple of the bigger ones I have got to town.  The table was cut very bad and had a 5 inch curve to it so the only option was to cut it into sections.

The other two we rolled like a tire for a couple on kilometers .  Not a pleasant day.  If this works it is a multi million dollar business.

We dont have the excellent figure as you in the north are used to.  I assume it is because everyting grows so fast here.







Jeff

I wonder if you are making a mistake painting the entrance wound.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

beenthere

I think Greenpeace is heading to Peru as we speak........ ::) ::)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

jim king

QuoteI wonder if you are making a mistake painting the entrance wound.

Jeff:

They are not going to seal the wound but are putting a large ring around it so we can find  where the slug went in.

It will be interesting to see if the moss and other gargage that grows on some trees and blown into the hole has more of an effect than a clean tree.

Burlkraft

Right now I'm hoping that it works for ya and we don't say down the line, "Who was that idiot that suggested this?"
Why not just 1 pain free day?

jim king

Burlkraft:

Nothing ventured nothing gained  , I am open to trying anything.  I have been on some crazy escapades in my life.  This is quite mild by past standards.   When I came here a long time ago I was told by experts there was no wood here with figure or unusual colors.

One day with firewood cutters showed me a supermarket of colors and grain patterns and it became my business.


Clark

Quote from: jim king on January 25, 2011, 08:01:48 AM
I have taken shoots off of burls and had them cloned thinking that possibly I was going to have burl trees.  Long story short they are regular trees and no figure.

I like your ingenuity, Jim.  I would have never thought of something like that and it's a funny story!

Have you checked out what Alex Shigo says about burls?  He did all sorts of crazy things to hardwoods and recorded it all, I would think he would have written something about burls...?

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

Burlkraft

Quote from: Clark on January 26, 2011, 05:50:01 PM
Have you checked out what Alex Shigo says about burls?  He did all sorts of crazy things to hardwoods and recorded it all, I would think he would have written something about burls...?

Clark

I forgot about him. He is the authority if there is one!
Why not just 1 pain free day?

beenthere

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Burlkraft

Quote from: beenthere on January 26, 2011, 06:18:31 PM
He was a legend.

http://www.shigoandtrees.com/index.php?_a=viewDoc&docId=5

If I remember right you are a bit of a legend yerself   no_no  no_no  no_no

You otta have some burls growin' in them trees by now   :D :D
Why not just 1 pain free day?

SwampDonkey

Was? Some legends never die. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Burlkraft

Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 26, 2011, 07:58:43 PM
Was? Some legends never die. ;)

You my friend are working on your legend status  ;D  ;D
Why not just 1 pain free day?

SwampDonkey

Me. I'm nothing more than an insect, you know what happens to insects. Sometimes....if you don't miss. :D I suppose you could call it the ..... expiration date?
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Burlkraft

Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 26, 2011, 08:04:05 PM
Me. I'm nothing more than an insect, you know what happens to insects. Sometimes....if you don't miss. :D

That's not what Jeff thinks!
Why not just 1 pain free day?

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

isawlogs

Alien .. Canadien.  Close enough ! :)
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

SwampDonkey

Yeah, but they look like aliens.  :-\
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Yeah, my wife was a resident alien (Canadian) but the naturalization process fixed that!


Jeff

I mean alien as in from another galaxy. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

woodhick

Following this thread with great interst.  My luck I would forget I shot it and complain about hitting metal in a few years. :D
Woodmizer LT40 Super 42hp Kubota, and more heavy iron woodworking equipment than I have room for.

Burlkraft

Lead saws up pretty nice  ;D
Why not just 1 pain free day?

iffy

Quote from: Jeff on January 27, 2011, 08:20:13 AM
I mean alien as in from another galaxy. :)
Isn't that still canadian?  :D

jim king

Well the Assassins got back and shot over 150 trees, some had to be shot more than once.  Now it´s all up to BurlKraft crossing his fingers.

I am going out in a few days for photos.

pigman

Quotesome had to be shot more than once
What, were some of the trees fighting back?
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

jim king

QuoteWhat, were some of the trees fighting back?

They had tree huggers in front of them  8)

Burlkraft

Quote from: jim king on January 28, 2011, 02:58:52 PM
QuoteWhat, were some of the trees fighting back?

They had tree huggers in front of them  8)

:D :D :D :D :D

I am anxious to see how this works out   ;D

What kind of trees did they shoot?

Will they grow fast? Hardwood...softwood?

You probably already said, but I am getting very forgetful.

It's either my meds, my age or maybe it's because I got married?  :-X
Why not just 1 pain free day?

jim king

I am anxious to see how this works out   

What kind of trees did they shoot?

Will they grow fast? Hardwood...softwood?

You probably already said, but I am getting very forgetful.

QuoteIt's either my meds, my age or maybe it's because I got married?

No need to explain , we understand your circumstances.

High figure hardwoods and we shot the ones in puberty.  In ten years they will be at least 24 inches DBH.  I will probabably 180 inches below DBH.

Burlkraft

Quote from: jim king on January 28, 2011, 06:17:24 PM
High figure hardwoods and we shot the ones in puberty.  In ten years they will be at least 24 inches DBH.  I will probabably 180 inches below DBH.

Is there some one there that's going to keep us updated?  :D :D
Why not just 1 pain free day?

jim king

BurlKraft:

As I said before, I have done a lot of crazier things.  I will have DBD measurements, photos of each gunshot and it progress every six months etc. etc...  If this is going to be something you will never have to look for burls again.

fuzzybear

   I finally got to read this and boy is it interesting.  It was brought up about battle fields, well that triggered something in this old mind.  Years ago I was very into the Battle at Gettysburg, I toured the battle field from top to bottom over the course of a month. And I do remember their being alot of burls in the trees around the battle field.  I remember one  I believe was a walnut tree very close to "Devils Den". It was a massive burl. and there were others around.
  It would be interesting if some of you guys who live near the battle fields have noticed anything.  My wife also brought up the big burls around Harpers Ferry WV.  Another battle area.
  So the point of all this is....I think maybe you guys are onto something.  I think I'll load up on .22mag shells and start blasting away at some of these Birch trees. ;D
FB
I never met a tree I didn't like!!

jim king

QuoteIs there some one there that's going to keep us updated?

I can´t promise as the doc told me not even to buy green bananas but I have a good group of people and they are as interested as I am.

Bill Gaiche

When you shoot a tree with lead does this cause lead poisning? Or do the trees now have a cancer where shot which turns to a burl? bg

jim king

Best answer I can come up with is ?¿?¿

SPIKER

Quote from: jim king on January 28, 2011, 06:17:24 PMI will probabably 180 inches below DBH.

I guess as long as ya are not 72" below ground level :o   Any day ya wake up on this side of the dirt is a good one for the most part.

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

Burlkraft

I like the lead causing a cancer burl  ;D  ;D
Why not just 1 pain free day?

jim king

The gaurd just came in from the shooting site for his pay and said many of the trees are swelling and look unusual where they were shot  8).   I hope to be able to get away to go out and take photos soon. 

For me it is a one day walk in , one day on site and one day walking out .  Old.

Bill Gaiche

Jim you may want to take the medical examiner with you to make a full investigation, bg

MesquiteSawyer

Very entertaining thread guys. 

I had to add that I was visiting with an older farmer the other day at his house and I noticed he had a 30" mulberry covered in burl in his yard.  I asked him about the tree, and he mentioned that the tree had many boxes of bullets shot into it over the last thirty years.  Didn't think much of it at the time, other than it was a shame it was so full of lead.  Go figure.

I am headed into the woods to test this myself.  It did occur to me that you guys are all going to corner the market on burl in a year or two and we won't be able to give it away!   High class worry I suppose.  :-)

-Mark

asca65290

I got a kick out of reading this thread.  I never would have guessed about shooting trees and creating burls!  Since there haven't been any postings on this topic for a few months, I thought I would ask: Is there any update?

wesdor

Trying to get this thread started again to see if anyone can report. I believe we have lost Jim King, but hopefully someone else can provide some information

Do any of you have "man made" burls starting to grow? 

SPIKER

Does not seem like the thread was this old, when I saw it I remembered it right away.   Did not remember Kim King passing but see the Forum has him listed in memorandum?
I have some shot up red oak, no burls yet after a year or two...

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

SwampDonkey

Yeah, we lost pour Jim some time ago. I think he and the wife had a great life down in Peru though. And he was always talking about the struggles down there with 'outsiders' trying to influence forest activities. The WWF's address down there was an abandoned building. He used to tell us about how some gringo, once in awhile, would show up down there to make a new life for themselves. Most never made it.

Miss Jim being around. He could sure write some long posts about his ordeals. :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

wesdor

Trying to bring this topic up again.  Wondering if anybody has progress to report

Thanks in advance

mesquite buckeye

Superdave does a lot of wood turning and he says he has never found a bullet in a burl. He says this is probably 50 mesquite burls and quite a few cherry burls from New Jersey. :) :snowball:
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

dean herring

Just how much are burles worth?
Failure is not an option  3D Lumber

SwampDonkey

Depends on grain pattern, species, and what's hot at the moment of sale. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

mesquite buckeye

If the burl is for turning stock, the price is limited by the selling price of the bowl or other items and the value of labor/artistic ability of the turner and a profit for the store that sells the bowl. It all works backwards from the selling price of finished products. :)

Highly valuable burls are a bit like highly valuable black walnut... ;D ;D ;D :snowball: :snowball: :snowball:
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

mesquite buckeye

I believe it should be possible to create burls with grafting techniques. I'd think a walnut burl would be highly valuable. ;D ;D ;D

If anybody is interested I can explain how you could do it. :)
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

aehartle

Any update to the progress of the trees? I am brand new to this forum and couldn't stop reading...

Jeff

I'm sorry to say that Jim King passed away several years ago and we will most likely never know the answer.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

WH_Conley

I sure do miss Jim's stories.
Bill

Magicman

Hello aehartle and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.  How about an intro and sharing some of your tree/log/lumber interest.  Adding your location to your profile helps with questions.   :)
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