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Started by trev, January 22, 2011, 05:11:39 PM

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lumberjack48

nhlogga your fuel is way to heavy, to bad to louse a days work because wrong fuel mixture, not your fault, your employers fault, i would bring some number ! fuel and de-gel in the morning.   
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

nhlogga

Quote from: lumberjack48 on January 24, 2011, 05:12:56 PM
nhlogga your fuel is way to heavy, to bad to louse a days work because wrong fuel mixture, not your fault, your employers fault, i would bring some number ! fuel and de-gel in the morning.   



That's the plan. When I ran my old Clark I used only on road fuel and used the quart bottles that say to mix with 100gal and put the whole bottle in my 50gal L tank. I also fueled my skidder up at the end of the day every day with no execptions and never had a problem. I also used  "spit swappers" and rarely ever used either. I hate using that stuff. Day's like today I would have stayed home. But you know the saying  "the boss is always right".
Jonsered 2260
Husky 562xp

trev

Norm, always bills to pay but the way things work here is land owners pay us good money to get the product to the mills in a timely fasion and before breakup. If this does not happen while we are the contractors next season another contractor will have the chance to try.

northwoods1

I listen to all these stories and laugh.

the most important thing I learned over the years is don't plan on production when it is deathly cold , as in -20 or more. It is crazy to work at those temps in regions where that is the extreme.

Now if all you have to do is get your machine running and turn the heater on , well that might be a workable situation.

But falling timber , or cutting on the ground , that is dangerous work when the conditions are perfect.

Stay home and prepare for the temps to moderate.

Got to pay the bills you say? Well I can remember going out and snapping an axle on the 540 D when it was cold , and that is why it happened. Even steel has different characteristics in those temps. I can remember going out and pulling up a load behind the 540 , and having it bump in to the fender and big piece of the fender just broke right off! Not on the weld or a bend , just broke right out where the tree hit it! How long does a guy have to work to pay the bills when steel starts snapping when you just going about normal business? Work all day and freeze you DAN G. off and come home deeper in debt then when you left? That is not a good feeling.

There is no  way to prepare fully for those kinds of conditions.

Most equipment , and I mean everything , skidders , chainsaws, and even people ... are not designed to work in those conditions.

The worst I ever hurt myself was falling timber in those conditions . A February job, so cold...I was skidding across a blueberry bog. Had to get them loads out. Didn't feel so good when a tree didn't behave normally as I was falling it , and particularly after it landed on me after the butt flew up in the air because the very small sapling that was in the way did not bend over like normal but stood there and made a tree length teeter totter. I had an epiphany that day. It was this: some days a guy should just ... stay home. Get killed for a piece of wood.. no thanks.

There is no point in going out and breaking equipment , and like I said , you can not fully prepare for the way equipment will behave in extreme conditions like that. Freaky things happen. Your not paying the bills when your breaking things. And working on the ground falling timber in particular. To dangerous!

You might need to try it ... just to prove your a real man :D but when you do that a time or too, and figure out you are one. Then it isn't that important to push yourself like that. I could write a list a mile long of all the mishaps and breakdowns that have occurred when working in the extreme cold. Now I think back and try to learn from all that. It ain't worth it sometimes :D

But that is just me...

JDeere

Quote from: HolmenTree on January 24, 2011, 10:50:03 AM
Not trying to put a bee in anyones bonnet, but from all the trouble you loggers are having south of the line I now can see why 90% of Canadian produced softwood lumber goes to the US. :D

Willard

HolmenTree,   I have read your post 3 times and laughed out loud each time. Thats just funny :D :D :D
2013 Western Star, 2012 Pelletier trailer, Serco 7500 crane, 2007 Volvo EC 140, 2009 John Deere 6115D, 2002 Cat 938G, 1997 John Deere 540G, 1996 Cat D-3C, 1995 Cat 416B, 2013 Cat 305.5E

Tom_Averwater

At what temperature do you guys change from #2 to # 1 diesel?
He who dies with the most toys wins .

snowstorm

i maine we just let em run all nite. since most fuel up here is irving i was told they take the wax out of it. that takes care of the problem. yrs ago used to cut it 50%kero

HolmenTree

Quote from: JDeere on January 24, 2011, 07:52:40 PM
Quote from: HolmenTree on January 24, 2011, 10:50:03 AM
Not trying to put a bee in anyones bonnet, but from all the trouble you loggers are having south of the line I now can see why 90% of Canadian produced softwood lumber goes to the US. :D

Willard

HolmenTree,   I have read your post 3 times and laughed out loud each time. Thats just funny :D :D :D
JDeere I too have been laughing reading this thread. I see your next door to Quebec and maybe you can relate to me. Alot of those French Canadians from Quebec have logged all over and I have learned many a logging trick working alongside those guys. When its 20 below or colder thats the best conditions for high production in piecework softwood logging as the boys from  Quebec are used to. When it turns colder then -40 below then its time to shut er down for a while ,save a planetary or walking beam.
But to miss out on some good going when its only -20-30  below is a real loss especially when wet areas etc are froze solid and access to good stands is available and the time you save on limbing and skidding on hard pack snow.
In our operations we built ice roads across lakes and logged beautiful timber on islands and swampy areas.Roads were good for B train hauling  almost 6 mths of the year.

Our forestry company operated Tanguay roadside slashers [built in Quebec] for years, excellent machine. Tanguay still makes excellent machines, check out their website and see the worlds largest grapple skidder they build. www.tanguay.cc

Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Reddog

Quote from: Tom_Averwater on January 24, 2011, 09:00:50 PM
At what temperature do you guys change from #2 to # 1 diesel?

Here the suppliers start blending in Nov for -35F rating. So the only time I run straight #1 is if I head into and area where it may be below -30F. You lose a fair amount of power running #1, a lot less BTU's per gallon. You will consume 10-15% more fuel than on #2.

barbender

Another thing to watch for, in MN at least, is whether your fuel has any bio-diesel blended into it. I'm normally all for some bio, but not in the winter. It doesn't behave very well in the cold. In fact, the state had mandated that all on road diesel had to have 5% (I think) bio diesel blend, this fall they suspended part of that so that #1 sold in the winter doesn't have to run any. I believe that was mostly due to loggers throwing a fit, they knew all their trucks would be gelled up. When the state first mandated the bio diesel several years back, I think about half the trucks in the state were parked on the shoulder gelled up of the road on the first cold day of the winter ::) It was a bit of a mess.
Too many irons in the fire

nhlogga

Quote from: barbender on January 25, 2011, 11:58:56 AM
Another thing to watch for, in MN at least, is whether your fuel has any bio-diesel blended into it. I'm normally all for some bio, but not in the winter. It doesn't behave very well in the cold. In fact, the state had mandated that all on road diesel had to have 5% (I think) bio diesel blend, this fall they suspended part of that so that #1 sold in the winter doesn't have to run any. I believe that was mostly due to loggers throwing a fit, they knew all their trucks would be gelled up. When the state first mandated the bio diesel several years back, I think about half the trucks in the state were parked on the shoulder gelled up of the road on the first cold day of the winter ::) It was a bit of a mess.



Bio+Cold weather = Bad headaches. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
Jonsered 2260
Husky 562xp

tjdub

Quote from: Tom_Averwater on January 24, 2011, 09:00:50 PM
At what temperature do you guys change from #2 to # 1 diesel?

I think that the general rule of thumb is that #2 fuel will gel at around -10F (or even a whole lot warmer if your fuel filter is adding resistance from ice or dirt).  Once you get colder that -10F, you need to blend some #1 into the #2.  In my area, the fuel distributor will usually recommend a 70/30 mix of #2/#1 in the winter which I think is targeted at the -30F range?  Fuel additives like Powerservice say right on the bottle that they can be used in straight #2 fuel to achieve the same properties, but I'm not convinced.

One of my tractors has a fuel filter with the element completely visible through the glass.  This is a nice feature to have when you're trying to diagnose your filter and fuel condition in cold temps.  You can see it struggling when it's pulling air bubbles through the injection pump side of the filter element.  One time at around -20F that tractor started to gel up.  I saw this happening and couldn't figure out why because the fuel should have been fine and the filter was pretty new and looked clean.  I popped on a new filter and all was good (except my fingers).   I would have just blamed the fuel if it had a canister filter.

Anyway, around here it doesn't get cold enough that we have to burn straight #1 fuel.  There's nothing wrong with doing this except it hurts your wallet and limits your power.  #1 fuel has a lot less energy per volume so you burn a lot more of it than #2 or a #2/#1 blend.  Plus you have less power from your engine.  But hey, you still have a lot more power than an engine that won't run past idle! :)  Loading your blend up with #1 can be good insurance (especially this year).

HolmenTree

I recommend anyone who have bulk fuel on hand save it for the warmer months and buy your fuel fresh where the fleet trucking companies buy their fuel.
I get my fuel from a Petro Canada cardlock station were all the truckers fuel up and I'm always guarenteed its the right fuel for the season. I remember 30 yrs ago problems we had with the transition of summer fuel to winter fuel up here in northern Canada when logging but I can't remember any problems since.

Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

JDeere

Fuel additives like Powerservice say right on the bottle that they can be used in straight #2 fuel to achieve the same properties, but I'm not convinced.

tjdub,  Up here where I live and work everybody uses Powerservice in addition to our fuel being treated by the distributor for -30*F. I learned the hard way a number of years back, use it religiously or you will gel up if you get a bad batch of fuel.
2013 Western Star, 2012 Pelletier trailer, Serco 7500 crane, 2007 Volvo EC 140, 2009 John Deere 6115D, 2002 Cat 938G, 1997 John Deere 540G, 1996 Cat D-3C, 1995 Cat 416B, 2013 Cat 305.5E

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