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3/4" cuts with CSM?

Started by OlJarhead, January 18, 2011, 09:56:30 AM

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OlJarhead

I'm just curious whether there is a limit to how small you can mill with a chainsaw vs. other mills?  I don't need to go smaller/thinner then 3/4" and am not certain I need to go that thin but wanted to ask.

Also, will 3/4" boards warp/cup etc more then 1"?  (I'm assuming so but uncertain).

Lastly:  I'm trying to mill lumber for interior paneling which I assume is best around 5/8" and was thinking that after drying and planing a 1" board coming off the mill might actually shrink and get planed down closer to 5/8" but again, lacking any experience at all figured I'd ask for advise here :)  Thanks!

I asked this in my CSM thread but decided to separate it because it's really off topic.

Thanks
Erik

2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

flibob

I don't know about the CSM but with that lt10 you are getting the kerf and quick pass on the planer are going to save you 3/16 to a 1/4.
The ranch is so big and I'm such a little cowboy

Peder McElroy

Erik.
I mill redwood with my alaskan mill @ 3/4 " all the time for fencing and siding with no problem. I guess it depends on the kind of wood you cut. Peder

tyb525

A 1" board will almost always make 3/4" off of any mill that is cutting well, unless the board is unusually warped/cupped/etc.

If you cut at 7/8", you won't have to plane off as much to get to 5/8". It also depends on the width of the boards. A cupped 12" wide board will require more planing than a 6" board with some cup (usually). With my LT10 I've sawn 7/8" and was able to plane most of the boards to 3/4" after drying.

A CSM may or may not be able to do the same, I've heard of them cutting as accurately and smoothly as a bandmill and then I've heard the opposite. If you decide to go that route, I'd use more wedges in the cut just to be on the safe side, since a 3/4" board could flex more while milling.

A good rule of thumb is to cut 1/4" thicker than you need, sometimes more sometimes less depending on your mill and the species.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Magicman

Seems like with the kerf thickness, when sawing ¾" boards, you are losing 1/4 of your log?

Well, you do get to keep 3/4  ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Busy Beaver Lumber

OLjarhead

I got to try a chainsaw mill for the first time a few weeks ago. Was quite an experience and a definate work out. Personally, I found it quite wasteful and about slow enough to put you to sleep. We were cutting some 12 inch diameter pine logs and I can tell you it took about 5 times longer to make each cut than it takes me to make the same cut on my LT-10 mill. The other thing that got to me was the bending over to make the cuts, Definately prefer to stand up and push the LT-10 through the log than have to bend over and push the chainsaw through the log.

Also as Magicman has mentioned, it appears to be very wasteful as opposed to using a bandmill. I would say that I would have got at least 2 to 3 more boards out of each log on my bandmill.

If properly stacked and stickered, I have not noticed a big difference in the tendency of one thickness board to warp versus another. What I have noticed it that boards with stress or compression will tend to warp more, regardless of thickness, but I would think that would be expected.

I have a woodmizer LT-10 and like it very much. It fits my needs perfectly. I am however equally as willing to state that there are many other fine manufactures of small bandmills and I would suggest that you consider a bandmill over a chainsaw mill if you are going to cut a fair amount of boards and not just do it occasionally. Having said that, I do appreciate the ability of a chainsaw mill when it comes to cutting large slabs and am considering putting one together for just that reason, with the understanding that I will only be using it occasionally
Woodmizer LT-10 10hp
Epilog Mini 18 Laser Engraver with rotary axis
Digital Wood Carver CNC Machine
6 x 10 dump trailer
Grizzly 15in Spiral Cut Surface Planer
Grizzly 6in Spiral Cut Joiner
Twister Firewood Bundler
Jet 10-20 Drum Sander
Jet Bandsaw



Save a tree...eat a beaver!

ladylake

If your doing just a litte use the chainsaw mill, if your doing a lot hire or get a small band saw.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

jander3

I milled a bunch of planking for the cabin sub-floor and decking with a Chain Saw Mill and 97cc Husky.   

Back breaking and time consuming...motivated me to purchase a TimberKing 1220.  Now, milling with the manual mill doesn't even feel like work.

Chain Saw Mill works fine for a little wood.  Wouldn't want to make a career out of it.  I do like the Chain Saw Mill for cutting a face on a long log. I can do that in place and don't have to move the log twice.


OlJarhead

Thanks All!  Great feedback.

As I have the CSM now and have cut a couple cants so far (and yes it was time consuming and somewhat hard on the back, knees, etc etc) I'll be cutting the first batch with it to see how well I do.  It will be the final test before taking the plunge and getting an LT10 -- which I'm certain I'm going to order now anyway :P

The CSM allows me to set depth and it will cut below that so I lose the 1/4" cerf below the board rather then in it -- so no worries there.  And since I am thinking I'll be wanting 5/8" paneling I'll cut 7/8" and see how that goes.  Then maybe after drying and a pass or two through the plane I should have the right size paneling.

It's an adventure isn't it :)

2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

Busy Beaver Lumber

OlJarhead

When you take the plunge and buy your LT-10, make sure you get it with the 10hp motor and not the smaller 7hp motor. You will definately appreciate the extra hp for the few extra dollars they charge you for it.

The other thing you may wish to consider is to order it with a second log dog which I believe was around $90. Forum member Ty had his LT-10 before I bought one and often complained about logs coming loose with just the one log dog they supplied and if memory serves, he also bent the log dog up pretty good by trying to get it to grab better. I bought my mill with the second log dog and have not had any problems keeping logs securely clamped on the mill and have not bent the log dogs either since I do not have to struggle to get them overly tight since there are two of them grabbing the log.

One word of caution. The woodmizer site used to show how the LT-10 was packaged for shipping and showed it in a rather flat crate that would fit in a 8 foot pickup truck bed, even if you had a cap on the truck. Well I am glad that when I picked mine up I did not have the cap on my truck because when I got there they had it palletized differently then what was shown on their website and it stood a good 5+ feet tall. Take extra straps to pick it up because it is a bit top heavy packed like this and will need the extra securing in the truck bed

I have also modified my lubrication system a bit. The lube tank and valve are all the way over on the right side of the mill, whereas the operator stands all the way to the left. Made it a bit cumbersome to always have to reach across to turn the lube on and off. I added a rechargable batter, electric solenoid valve, and switch mounted to the handle so I could easily turn it on and off without having to reach across the mill each time. The other benefit of doing this is that once you set your drip rate, you do not have to reset it each time when you open and close the valve on the tank. You can just set the drip rate initially and then turn it off and on with the battery powered valve that is in series with the feed to the mill.
Woodmizer LT-10 10hp
Epilog Mini 18 Laser Engraver with rotary axis
Digital Wood Carver CNC Machine
6 x 10 dump trailer
Grizzly 15in Spiral Cut Surface Planer
Grizzly 6in Spiral Cut Joiner
Twister Firewood Bundler
Jet 10-20 Drum Sander
Jet Bandsaw



Save a tree...eat a beaver!

tyb525

Amen to what Fred said, and when you get your LT10 I think you will be wondering why you didn't do it from the start!

I also got the LT10 crated with mast already assembled, it fit fine in our shortbed, but it did stick up above the cab.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

mikeb1079

in my experience it's not so much that a csm can't cut thin slices, it's that (as others have said) the thinner the boards the more waste you produce.  i try to csm everything thick (saves time and lumber) and plan on resawing it later with my bandsaw when i know what i'll use it for.  i'll also second that it's more about the stress in the log and how you saw it than how thin you go with your cuts.
that lt 10 is gonna be fun!   8)
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

Peder McElroy

Yes I admit that the chainsaw mill is some work,thats why I also have a Belsaw M-24 and a Lucas swing blade mill. Look at my photo gallery and see what I made for my chainsaw mill for slabs.

hobbytrucker1966

i can cut paper thin with my csm its all about the sharpening i think i sharpen at 5 deg every 20 or so logs and i raised my mill so its about 3 ft off the ground so i can see whats going on and im not so humped over also makes it easier to get on my trailer when i have to be portable and as far as the waste im a old school sawer that used to have a rotary mill or circle mill so im used to the quarter inch saw cut
fourth generation sawyer with all my fingers

OlJarhead

:D  The wifes on board for the LT10 so it's a done deal!  Now I just need to sort WHEN I'm ordering but I expect it to be within the next few weeks :D
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

ladylake

 You'll be liking it.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

OlJarhead

Quote from: ladylake on January 20, 2011, 12:15:24 PM
You'll be liking it.   Steve

I'm thinking so!  I realized that there is a TON more I could do with one.  For example, I was diving down a mountain road yesterday and saw an old cabin being torn down when something stuck me:  I don't need plywood or sheeting!

Might sound totally silly but after years of modern framing I guess I just sorta got used to using plywood and OSB and just didn't think of how they did it before plywood mills.  Well, not I realize that I could mill 1x's for floor sheeting, walls and roof sheeting like they used to.

Not that I plan to go crazy it's just that I have several trees that I need to remove which are blocking my solar panels as well as a lot of other trees which for various reasons I could make use of.  So why not make them into lumber?

I think I have the bug!
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

Tom

One thing you can do, now that you see the old methods of building again, is be aware that the new zoning and building laws in a lot of States are not only promoting plywood and OSB, but requiring it.   Here in Florida, I understand (haven't confirmed it) that it is required that you use plywood for all wall sheeting. The new generations are more about technology and obedience to their demands than reality.

I let my vote be guided against those who press down with a big, heavy thumb.
It's good to be aware.

OlJarhead

Quote from: Tom on January 20, 2011, 01:27:05 PM
One thing you can do, now that you see the old methods of building again, is be aware that the new zoning and building laws in a lot of States are not only promoting plywood and OSB, but requiring it.   Here in Florida, I understand (haven't confirmed it) that it is required that you use plywood for all wall sheeting. The new generations are more about technology and obedience to their demands than reality.

I let my vote be guided against those who press down with a big, heavy thumb.
It's good to be aware.

Point taken -- luckily I'm in a remote out of the way place that sees an assessor once every 4 years and that's it ;)
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

Busy Beaver Lumber

Erik

Woodmizer was great to work with whe I ordered my LT-10. I actually placed the order for mine about 8 weeks before I picked it up with just a $500 deposit, then paid cash for the balance when I picked it up. Had a few modifications I wanted to do to the building before the saw arrived, but wanted to get in the que and have it ready to pick up when I wanted it.

Fred
Woodmizer LT-10 10hp
Epilog Mini 18 Laser Engraver with rotary axis
Digital Wood Carver CNC Machine
6 x 10 dump trailer
Grizzly 15in Spiral Cut Surface Planer
Grizzly 6in Spiral Cut Joiner
Twister Firewood Bundler
Jet 10-20 Drum Sander
Jet Bandsaw



Save a tree...eat a beaver!

OlJarhead

Quote from: Busy Beaver Lumber on January 20, 2011, 04:14:38 PM
Erik

Woodmizer was great to work with whe I ordered my LT-10. I actually placed the order for mine about 8 weeks before I picked it up with just a $500 deposit, then paid cash for the balance when I picked it up. Had a few modifications I wanted to do to the building before the saw arrived, but wanted to get in the que and have it ready to pick up when I wanted it.

Fred

Good to know -- I'll have to chat with them - also need to figure what shipping would be since picking it up would be tough!  Nearest dealer is a long ways away.

Was that 8 weeks a lead time by them or you?
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

Brucer

Quote from: tyb525 on January 18, 2011, 02:44:45 PM
A CSM may or may not be able to do the same, I've heard of them cutting as accurately and smoothly as a bandmill and then I've heard the opposite.

If you use kerf wedges (about 1/32" thicker than the kerf), and if you file your chain straight across, and if you put a counterweight on the guide bar to offset the weight of the powerhead ... then you'll get a cut that is smoother and more consistent than a bandmill will give you.

One thing a CSM will do that a bandmill won't is give you a uniform thickness down the entire length of the board. The saw always cuts parallel to the top surface, no matter how much the cant deflects.

I have a piece of birch in my basement 8" wide, 12' long, and 0.025" thick, cut with a CSM. Yes, seriously. I'll confess, it was an accident. I goofed when I calculated the thickness of my cant, so I had to remove just over 3/8" to get the size I wanted. I did this by setting the CSM to the proper thickness (after recalculating it) and sawing the excess off the bottom.

I always lift my log onto 24" high horses, so I had to lift the end of the log with my loader as the saw was approaching a supporting horse.

Sawing with the CSM mill wasn't all that slow, but setup time was a killer.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Busy Beaver Lumber

Erik

The 8 week lead time was at my request. They actually could have had one for me to pick up in a few days since they make them right here in Indiana. Reason I ordered when I did was that they were running a sale on the LT-10 that expired in a few days, but if I placed the order ahead of the expiration date, they were willing to freeze the price even though I would not be picking it up for 2 months. They even gave me an additional 2% discount for being a previous woodmizer mill owner of record since I registered the LT-25 with them when I bought it. Another reason I delayed the pickup day is that I do not like to cut in the winter. I run my mill inside the building and use two large fans to blow the exhaust fumes outside through the garage door, which I leave wide open when cutting. Having it in hand at the end of March suited me just fine since it is much warmer and a lot more bearable to have the door all the way up for proper ventilation.
Woodmizer LT-10 10hp
Epilog Mini 18 Laser Engraver with rotary axis
Digital Wood Carver CNC Machine
6 x 10 dump trailer
Grizzly 15in Spiral Cut Surface Planer
Grizzly 6in Spiral Cut Joiner
Twister Firewood Bundler
Jet 10-20 Drum Sander
Jet Bandsaw



Save a tree...eat a beaver!

OlJarhead

Looks like their shop near Portland has 3 LT10's  :D  I'm waiting on my quote now and found I can have them ship to my work in Oregon :D  Saves taxes!

I'm pretty stoked as we'll be ordering within the next couple weeks!!!
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

tyb525

got that sawmill bug already ;)
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

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