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People Protest

Started by QuintonAlame, January 14, 2011, 10:02:19 AM

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QuintonAlame

I landed a contract to clear 100 acres of tember.  But the problem is people protesting to save the trees I cant start the job cause of people threatning me and my crew.  I have police and conservation dp there to help me remove protesters but at this rate I cant get started.  Would it be a good idea to start dropping tember anyway my crew says start dropping trees they will move when the trees start to fall is this a good idea.

Bill Gaiche

When you have a legal right to remove trees it has to be frustrating when people interupt. If you do start make certain that no one from outside of your work crew gets hurt. If that was to happen it could cost you dearly in some rediculous lawsuit. Let the appropriate law do there job to remove people to insure that there are no injuries. There are people that are lawsuit happy, bg

Bill Gaiche

Can you say why the people are protesting? How does the cutting effect them? bg

QuintonAlame

You right the law is doing all they can but why people do that i have no clue like u said how is it going to hurt them.  Me and my crew just want to go to work

SwampDonkey

It's obvious, they are looking for a job. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Autocar

One thing for sure you better not let any equipment set there over night unless you hire a security guard. I had someone pour Mountain Dew in a fuel tank and I made it about half way down the skid trail and she stopped. I pulled the carburator off twice, pluse took the tank off and dumped it. Now we know why all equipment now a days you can pretty well lock up tight.
Bill

jim king

The way that problem would be taken care of here probably would not be considered politicly correct up there.

Bobus2003

Quote from: Autocar on January 14, 2011, 12:40:34 PM
One thing for sure you better not let any equipment set there over night unless you hire a security guard. I had someone pour Mountain Dew in a fuel tank and I made it about half way down the skid trail and she stopped. I pulled the carburator off twice, pluse took the tank off and dumped it. Now we know why all equipment now a days you can pretty well lock up tight.

Definatly lock up equipment if you can.. My dad had someone dump sand into the oil orf our skidder and skid steer because they wernt "happy" with the thinning the landowner was doing.. Cost us a pair of engines and learned a helluva leasson.. Pad locks on everything.. Now the Dipsticks even have padlocks on our equipment

QuintonAlame

I just hope the media dont get involved in shure that would be bad for busness >:(

Kansas

You have one thing going for you. Missouri is a timber state, with logging being a normal activity. If the national media is not involved, then don't worry about it. And,they can't protest if the trees are on the ground.

Start dropping.

Mark K

I had a problem with people messing with my equipment. Working alongside a gas well site that neighbors didn't approve of. There equipment was back off the road behind mine. I skidded around there site to the road. Had hydraulic fittings knocked off, hoses cut, and screwdriver holes through the radiator. No matter how much I kept stuff locked down I got messed with. Finally bought a big tarp for the skidder and set my game camera up. Was never really messed with after that. Wish I could of caught it on film. Other time I cut along side a college, moved in and started cutting on a Friday. Came back Monday morning, got into the woods and found a dozen or so tree's that were marked had faces painted on them with tears and blood drops. Thought it was kinda funny but they didnt mess with my equipment. 
Husky 372's-385's,576, 2100
Treefarmer C7D
Franklin 405
Belsaw m-14 sawmill

SwampDonkey

Makes ya wonder who breeds this stuff.  ::) Never see that garbage going on around here. Oh, there might be the odd mischief maker but they are just as likely to come steal from your barn or burn down a camp. More under the influence of substances than a grievance.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SPIKER

Start tracking hours that they are impeding your progress for every man waiting there & send them a bill!!   Have it signed by you and when the sheriff is there to remove them have them served with it at the same time!   Dam sure they wont be back twice when they get billed for 5 or 6 man crew setting idle at your companies going rate per hr!

MARK
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

BCtimber

That is annoying for sure.  I always thought the names of these protesters should be investigated and their welfare be revoked.

Tillaway

I read the enviro leaflets and news letters whenever I find them, they can be quite entertaining particularly the ones not met for general consumption.  So far Spiker has come pretty close to using something that does concern them.  Arrests are a badge of honor for these folks, they know they will be let out after booking and serve some probation time or whatever.  Civil law suites filed against individual protesters arrested on site scares them half to death.  This was done successfully in Montana probably 15 years ago.  You as the contractor must keep detailed records of time lost, overhead costs and any other cost you can think of as well as detailed photos and any other evidence you can think of.  Set them up for a fall, don't get mad get even.  Sue a sub group of those arrested, and pin every cost you can on them.  They might not be able to pay but having a large civil judgement against just one of them sends a message better than the hand cuffs.  They would like to be able to buy houses and cars and get credit in the future. 
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

red oaks lumber

i have yet seen any of these protesters stopping people from mowing their lawns or stopping farmers from harvesting corn or hay, these are crops just like forests are.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

CX3

Quinton where are you at in SW MO?  I heard a local logger here around me just got "TREE KILLER" spray painted on the side of his pickup.  I guess he left his truck parked at his sawmill over night and they got it.  I havent had any problems yet, for the sake of others I hope I dont.  I really dont know how I would handle such a deal.  Like John Wayne said "you'd better step aside partner"
John 3:16
You Better Believe It!

Dan_Shade

If I were to plan an all out assault on this type of infringement, I would demand that they all be arrested, then I would sue them for impacting my business.

you gotta hit their wallets
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

D Hagens

Quote from: Dan_Shade on January 14, 2011, 11:13:30 PM
If I were to plan an all out assault on this type of infringement, I would demand that they all be arrested, then I would sue them for impacting my business.

you gotta hit their wallets

The problem is that most of these tree huggers don't have wallets.
Protesting is one thing but vandalizing private property is another. I never can understand how they say they love the land and have the hippie attitude towards one another but they will jeopardize a hard working guys life by destroying his machinery.
They should be arrested and instead of a fine and a few days in jail the judges should make them take some courses so they can better understand forest management.

WildDog

We have had these ratbags frequently chain themselves to dozers, skidders and trees to stop the harvesting. Where my dad is the protesters were nailing bridging spikes into the trees to shatter the saws when they went through the mill >:(
If you start feeling "Blue" ...breath    JD 5510 86hp 4WD loader Lucas 827, Pair of Husky's 372xp, 261 & Stihl 029

thecfarm

We had a incident at Mt Blue State Park a few years back.Seems like a big sawmill company gave the state of Maine,Mt Blue State Park,like 100 acres of land,I maybe be wrong on the acres.But they kept the right to log the land in when ever they wanted too,a one shot cut.So 30-50 years go by and here comes the skidders. You would think they was going to clear cut the acres this company gave the state all those years back.People was saying no wood cutting should be allowed on state back land.Would not of been state park land  if the state would not of gave them to log rights on the land.Was only this once that it could be done.The protesters came,even burned a skidder. I got into it from some city guy at work about it.
Those protesters don't have a life.No way it could be done,but too bad we could not send them back to where they live and take away all of the wood products that they use in 5 years. Make them live with no wood products for 5 years.That would bring them around real quick.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

timberfaller390

I don't know how it is in MO, but in GA. a 12 gauge stoked with rock salt would disperse them real quick.
L.M. Reese Co. Land Management Contractors
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SwampDonkey

I can't say too much about Maine, except from what I read in the forestry literature there is getting to be a lot of land tied up as no touch. There is also a lot of swapping for development properties that were once held by towns. I guess some towns need cash in hard times. And some towns want to acquire township land and want to keep old township lands granted to them way back. They could manage the timber and sell some wood if they needed to for budgeting purposes. Once it's eaten up with these outfits it may or may not get swapped in the future who knows. But, my guess is it will. Some "do gooder" will still want his return on investment in cash form. You can bet the farm on that.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Rocky_Ranger

Protest in SW Missouri?  Tell us more, folks in Missouri are generally considered "normal" (with a few exceptions), must be a heck of an undertaking to have Missourians up in arms over timber harvest.  What are their concerns; cutting trees or cutting those trees?  Are there ways to mitigate the effects?
RETIRED!

barbender

I've heard a story- I can't verify it but it's a good one, and I hope it really did happen. Story goes that there was an old logger in Finland, running a Ponsse harvester. Some enviro-wack came out and chained himself to a tree, so the old fellow grabbed the tree about 7 feet up and cut it off like nobody was there. I imagine the enviro had some "biohazard" in his shorts :D Man, if I caught somebody messing with my equipment I don't think I'd handle it well. In this situation, I would probably get mad enought to just start cutting. They have to be really devoted to not get out of the way ;) If I was behaving more rationally, I'd probably go the civil penalty route.
Too many irons in the fire

ChrisF

Judging from the Finnish people I know, I have no problem believing that story. Good stuff!  ;D
Jred 2171WH
Husky 242XP

shtickhead


jim king

I can´t download the video but I can imagine what it is.  Do the idiots eat peanuts, wheat, niger toes, cashews ?¿.  If so they are eating fetuses.  I could care less about abortion as it is obvious there should have been a lot more , just look at Washington,  these people are vegetarian  hipocrates.

CX3

That video is nuts.  Those people are honestly weird. 

A guy a while back came running over to me from his side of the fence, to a spot where I was getting ready to lay down a big red oak.  He about started crying, told me that he hated loggers and there was no need for this nonsense.  I just flipped off my helmet, and walked over there and said then burn your house, never use another square of toilet paper, and dont write the congressman using a pencil.  He just turned around and went back to the house.  3 hours later he came out and I bought 11 big walnut trees from him! 
John 3:16
You Better Believe It!

SwampDonkey

Must've came down off his high. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

D Hagens


I watched that vid, almost barfed. What a bunch of idiots!
When a tree falls in a forest does anybody hear? I hope not as the trees put them out of their painful misery! :)
I'm sorry but that's just a fine example of a waste of human skin. :o

SwampDonkey

They're probably on something strong and it isn't coffee and cashews. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

D Hagens

Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 15, 2011, 07:43:35 PM
They're probably on something strong and it isn't coffee and cashews. :D

Hey speaking of cashews has anyone tried them with seasoning salt? I was thinking about this last night.  :)

SwampDonkey

I have some in with a canister of Planter's Mixed nuts, has sea salt on them. ;D I like to know the difference between that and table salt, tastes the same. I guess it can't be iodized. Salt is salt to me. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

submarinesailor

An other thread gone to food. :D :D :D

Bruce

Mooseherder

One Of those salts has fish poop in it. ;D

D Hagens


K then what's the deal with rock salt? Is it only good for your driveway? :D

Mooseherder

I've heard tell of it used in some Shotguns.

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Mooseherder on January 15, 2011, 08:18:59 PM
I've heard tell of it used in some Shotguns.

Formidable against tree huggers I've recently read. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

paul case

wow !!!!! that must be some kind of record. full circle from thread to food and back again in about 8 posts. you all are the best! ;D 
you know they used to call loggers tree huggers because many of them would hug a tree to see if it was big enough to cut. me, i hug one and if it dont hug back, i cut her! pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

fuzzybear

Quote from: paul case on January 15, 2011, 09:01:06 PM
wow !!!!! that must be some kind of record. full circle from thread to food and back again in about 8 posts. you all are the best! ;D 
you know they used to call loggers tree huggers because many of them would hug a tree to see if it was big enough to cut. me, i hug one and if it dont hug back, i cut her! pc
:D :D :D
I never met a tree I didn't like!!

Jeff

Quote from: timberfaller390 on January 15, 2011, 09:01:45 AM
I don't know how it is in MO, but in GA. a 12 gauge stoked with rock salt would disperse them real quick.

That's not a good option anywhere.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Skiddah

I've had quite a bit of experience dealing with these protestors.  My first and most important bit of advice to you, is not to engage them!!!  Do NOT do anything, violent or otherwise, to engage them.  It's exactly what they want.  If you haven't noticed already, they have one or more of their running buddies with a video camera documenting the whole encounter.  They'd love nothing more than to post to their website, YouTube, etc., a video of you or anyone in your crew getting heated with them.  It shows that they "won" and paints you in a negative light.  As was evidenced in the video posted on this thread, these people are not grounded in reality and fight their battles in the court of public opinion.

I was working on a large scale industrial wind project off and on for the past two years.  I cut on the transmission right-of-way from the wind turbines to the substation where it connected to the grid.  Last summer I was up on the ROW again trimming some high stumps and the like and Earth First! rolled into town to protest.  We were in an area that had multiple targets for them:  Plum Creek, Poland Spring Water, and industrial wind.  They held a little camp out in some farmer's field and conducted seminars about how to climb trees and wait it out in them, how to scale buildings and drape signs, how to eat roadkill (no joke!), etc.  Well, when all these hippies got together, you can imagine where all the black flies congregated!  :D  The worst part about it was that they posted all over their websites where in the local towns they could use their food stamps, government assistance, etc.  All in all we're paying for these dirtbags to go protest!  It kills me.  You want to tell them to get out of your way, you need to get to work and pay your taxes so their government checks will still cash.

I really like the idea of documenting the amount that it costs you and suing them.  That sounds like the best solution to me.  Hopefully I never have to encounter them again, but if I do, that'll be the approach I'll take.

Remember, don't sink to their level and engage them!!  Wait it out and try to stick it to them when you can.  Good luck and you're not alone in this battle.  All of us loggers need to stand united against them.  I might be a few thousand miles from you friend, but I'm on your side!!!

chain

I really hate to see that protesting stuff get started in the private sector; I've known of  protesting  in some of the Mark Twain National Forest projects here in Missouri, as  when clear-cutting began as a common forestry practice. But today, unfortunately, we have a culture not so kind to those of us working, making livings in traditional venues.

Here's something to consider and shocking to me... this last week I was paying fuel bills when opening the Shell Oil invoice I noticed the print saying something like, "go on line save paper and trees" Can you imagine, a hugh company like Shell disrespecting our whole paper and forest industries? [Not unlike Oprah of years past telling those to not eat beef when half the children of the continent of Africa were starving or undernourished but for the lack of good red meat!"  :(




paul case

ther may be a few die hards but most of those protesters are oblivious to the fact they live in wood framed house and read a newsPAPER everyday and wipe with.....  well you get the picture . i am on your side as well .  pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

quietrangr

Yes, it's interesting to see people who live in wood houses, maybe burn wood for heat, and use paper products repeatedly every day of their lives, write in to the local news outlet and have their anti-logging opinions printed and distributed on pulverized wood,

snowstorm

anybody see the pic last summer of the protester that chained herself under one of poland springs trailer

SPIKER

Quote from: snowstorm on January 16, 2011, 12:39:36 PM
anybody see the pic last summer of the protester that chained herself under one of poland springs trailer

got the pic? or ya just mentioning it?

mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

snowstorm

it was in the kingfeild paper. one walked in front of the truck while she was talking to the driver her pal got under the tralier put a lock around her neck and the landing gear

Ron Scott

Quote from: Rocky_Ranger on January 15, 2011, 10:59:20 AM
Protest in SW Missouri?  Tell us more, folks in Missouri are generally considered "normal" (with a few exceptions), must be a heck of an undertaking to have Missourians up in arms over timber harvest.  What are their concerns; cutting trees or cutting those trees?  Are there ways to mitigate the effects?

Yes, what are the issues and concerns of your clearcutting the 100 acres?
~Ron

Skiddah

Snowstorm, it wasn't a Poland Springs truck last summer, it was a truck hauling the wind turbine blades to the Kibby Mountain Wind Farm.  The protestors stopped the truck around the Sarampus Falls Rest Area on Route 27 and two of the protestors went and told the driver what was going on while one girl chained herself underneath the truck with a U-shaped bicycle lock around her neck.  She was really lucky, more than half of the drivers on that project were French Canadian that didn't speak a lick of English.  Imagine if the poor driver couldn't understand what her cohorts were saying and then drove off?  That's typical of these protestors though, going off half cocked with no regard for anyone else.

chain

Missouri's own Sheryl Crow went after the toilet paper industry, chastening fellow Americans to use only one 'square' of toilet paper per wipe!  Wonder how that rationing is holding out now that Sheryl's a mom? :D

Rocky_Ranger

I guess I lost ya Ron, I think we may need to hear more on why these folks are so upset.  Just like the video, it'd be knee slapping ignorant if it wasn't so serious - these people know how to bring suit, and get somebody else (including our tax $) to pay for it.........

I wonder what makes this 100 acres so special?
RETIRED!

Ron Scott

I agree. We need to know more on what's generating the contoversy to the timber harvest.
~Ron

barbender

These people seem to think that you have to cut down the old growth redwoods or something to make toilet paper from ::) 1 square? You may as well just use a stick or a piece of bark, oh, that's a wood product too.
Too many irons in the fire

WH_Conley

Quote from: barbender on January 16, 2011, 10:53:26 PM
These people seem to think that you have to cut down the old growth redwoods or something to make toilet paper from ::) 1 square? You may as well just use a stick or a piece of bark, oh, that's a wood product too.

Don't imagine they would flush very good. ::)
Bill

Cedarman

We still use corncobs, red and white.  Red first, then white to see if you need another red one.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Black_Bear

Quote from: SPIKER on January 16, 2011, 02:56:07 PM
Quote from: snowstorm on January 16, 2011, 12:39:36 PM
anybody see the pic last summer of the protester that chained herself under one of poland springs trailer

got the pic? or ya just mentioning it?

mark

Here are two articles about Earth First's rendezvous last summer. They waited until the last day of the rendezvous to create commotion.

http://www.bangordailynews.com/story/bdn/3-protesters-arrested-at-Kibby-Mountain-wind-power-site,147980

http://www.sunjournal.com/approved/story/874074

treetech

skiddah posted
"As was evidenced in the video posted on this thread, these people are not grounded in reality and fight their battles in the court of public opinion."

This is so true! They always have "right" on their side because most of the public are ill informed on forestry practices. I think it's high time people involved in forestry start to fight back with a public education campaign that informs the public on (a) how important wood products are to everyone  (b) how important "realistic" forest management is. and (c) How expensive forest products would be if forests were managed by these people.   They never want to cut a tree but they never give an alternative except not in my back yard.

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