Who is sawing long?(The big stick project)

[Dave Shepard]

I know customsawyer has a BX on his Wood-Mizer. Anybody else cutting long timbers? We are getting a BX24 as soon as they can get it shipped in. I'm going to be sawing white pine, so I don't expect huge problems, but I'd like to hear the ups and downs of sawing 45'+

[sgschwend]

Much less recovery.  You will be removing the tapper and also any bend or defects.  Even at 24'  it is noticeable.

[sjh]

I can saw up to 40', but have done a few 32'. The biggest problem I have is turning them and centering the pith on them. I did some 20 and 25 a few months back. Now i am installing them for a sill of a timber frame. I have to say they look realy good.

[Brucer]

I seem to be extending my mill 6' at a time (don't ask). I'm up to 12' right now. Here's some issues:

Loading. The log will overbalance on your loader at around 22, 23 feet depending on the taper. You can use auxiliary equipment to lift the far end (and risk hooking the mill); you can build a dead deck level with the mill, which is what I did; you can invest in a second loader on the extension, which some folks have done; or you can add a live deck.

Leveling. The toeboards are at the front, so that's where the pointy end has to be. With 33' of mill I'll get sag in the middle when I'm leveling a log, so I end up using both toeboards. On a 45' mill you that may not be enough. Some folks add one or more toeboards to the extension.

Rollers. How do you plan to offload your timbers? I roll mine off the far end of the mill. Without a toeboard there, I have to lift the near end, slide a roller under the timber, then lower the near end again and put a second roller under the very end. It's time consuming.

Side stops. Yep, they're manual at the far end. If I have time next spring I'm going to link the first extension to the last stop on the mill.

Clamp. The extensions come with the good old manual clamp. I've only had to use mine a couple of times. Mostly I just let the far end hang out and everything seems to be OK. It could be an issue if your timber tries to curl up off the bed.

Slabs & Flitches. What are you going to do with them? I've got a dragback and I just pull them back off the end, onto a roller table. Slide them off onto horses beside the roller table, buck them with a chain saw, and deal with the shorter pieces as normal.

Pricing: All of this handling takes extra time, but I charge a premium price for long timbers -- the longer the timber, the higher the $/BF. I always let people know they will save a lot of money if I saw their timber in two shorter lengths. About 1/4 of them do that when they see the price difference. The other 3/4 want the long timber anyway.

[Peter Drouin]

You can add to the mill to cut the log. the hard part is to get the logs. 45' good trees are not everwhere.and the loger has to cut them right not brake them . 8)

[pineywoods]

I seem to be extending my mill 6' at a time (don't ask). I'm up to 12' right now. Here's some issues


Side stops. Yep, they're manual at the far end. If I have time next spring I'm going to link the first extension to the last stop on the mill.

Brucer look here

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,24757.msg353671.html#msg353671

[Dave Shepard]

I'm not worried about handling. We've got a 644 LULL, an SK-150 Kobelco excavator and a Samsung SL-150 loader, any of them will handle logs and timbers. Slabs and flitches will be cut to a usable length with a chainsaw and handled by hand. Finding the 45' logs will take some searching, that's for sure. I know we have some of what we need on the property.

[scsmith42]

I can mill up to 58'; the longest that I've done so far is 44'.  I think that there are some pix in my gallery of the 44' boards.

Finding the right logs is key.  Since I have a swing mill, turning the cant is not an issue.

[Brucer]

45' good trees are not everwhere.and the loger has to cut them right not brake them . 8)

Maybe not on your side of the continent :D :D.

My "standard" log: D-Fir, 12" - 14" top, 52'-2" long. They grow a lot taller, but 55' is about the longest they can truck on the highways without special permits.


pineywoods: Thanks for the link. Somehow I missed that topic. Oh, wait, I wasn't planning on extending the mill back then ;D. I had been looking at running just the other side of the outrigger, but the method you show looks easier.

[bill m]

This picture is of some 38 foot logs a local timberframer bought from me last winter


The next picture is one of the 43 foot logs he bought.


He saws them on a LT40 with no extensions. I wanted to go watch/help him saw them but did not have time. I saw the finished timbers early this fall and they looked good.

[customsawyer]

I had WM add the all of the regular hyd. functions on my 24' ext. and hooked them all up to another valve bank that I mounted to the underside of my roller table. This gives me hyd. toe board rollers, two plane clamp and another log turner which is worlds of help on the long stuff.

[Dave Shepard]

Bill, I like the look of those long sticks you've got there.  ;) I've been putting together a log list for this project, so the hunt will be on pretty soon. We need some shorter stuff as well. Some 26'-6" to make finished (hewn after sawing) dimension 10"x12" and 14"x14".

customsawyer, I think it's too late to add a two-plane clamp to our extension. I don't think the standard BX frame has the bump out for the clamp. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm thinking on stuff this big and especially in EWP, that clamping won't be as important as the backstops on the BX.

[customsawyer]

Dave I went with the 24' ext. so it is just like the sawmill frame so it was no big deal for them to add the hyd. to it. I had it done this way because I knew this was what I was going to be doing 98% of the time and I didn't want to have to walk a extra 40' back and forth to raise lower the side supports and it makes the adjustment for taper a piece of cake.
Once I get the log trimmed down a little bit I don't usually have to use the log turner or the clamp on the ext. I can just handle the log with the hyd. on the mill but it sure is nice to have when you need it.
When you are trying to turn logs of this size just one set of hyd. may not be enough. This is 4 12X12X40' and I would have no idea as to what the weight of the log would have been before I started cutting.



This is what I use to load and unload the mill.

[red oaks lumber]

my hats off to you long log millers! i'll stick to 20' and shorter.

[Chuck White]

The long mills are impressive for sure.

If you're in an area where there is a lot of timber framing going on, they'd be just the ticket.

[Dave Shepard]

There is a lot of timber framing around here. These long sticks are for two projects that we currently have under way at work. The one barn originally had 13 45'-3" timbers and the other had 11 44'-3 7/8" and 2 40' timbers. Not to mention many large section 24'-26' timbers in each.

[customsawyer]

If you are only doing it on a very limited amount then the hyd. would not benefit you enough for just that few of logs. I can't remember the cost difference but I think it was close to $8,000.00 extra for all the added hyd. parts. 

[sigidi]

Best I've done is 8m (26') on my Lucas, done quite a few beams for my house at this length, but nothing in the 40' (12m) range, but I have found recovery is very low in such lengths, plus log tension is quite dramtic over such a length. I know you bandsaw guys overcome it by turning the log, which would create it's own probs at that length. On the Lucas you do things a bit different too, but can still get good long sticks of lumber ;D

[Brucer]

I had WM add the all of the regular hyd. functions on my 24' ext. and hooked them all up to another valve bank that I mounted to the underside of my roller table.

If only I'd know what I was getting into. If I had any clue that people would be wanting long timbers around here -- and were willing to pay for them -- then I'd have gone straight to the 24' extension. Then I could add hydraulic options as time and budget permit.

What I'm finding now is people are asking if I can deliver the timbers (after they've ordered and paid for them). "No, I can't. Bring a long truck or trailer and I'll load them up for you."

[customsawyer]

I am not saying that I was all knowing and went strait to the 24' ext. I started with a 6' ext. then traded it for a 12' ext. and then the request came in to start cutting longer so I ordered the 24' ext. and since I had the learned how difficult it was to turn and adjust for taper on these big boys I had them add the hyd.
They were not too interested in doing it for me at first but I was kind of persistent. I am glad that I held on to that 12' ext. as they bid a job for some 52' timbers the other day and I might need it. Part of me is hoping that we get the job as I love to try new tasks and part of me hopes I don't get the job as it will not be easy.

[Brucer]

When I got a job that included 40 - 3x8x24' FOHC, plus 2 - 8x12x30', it made sense to buy a 6' extension because it made the difference between getting the whole job or none of it. I figured I could "shuttle-saw" the two 30' timbers.

I didn't see much point it getting a longer extension because my "next mill" is going to have a remote station on it and they'll only accommodate an extra 6'.

So last year I got a job that included 40 - 4x12x30' FOHC, several 8x12x32', and two 8x12x34'. I figured I could "shuttle-saw" the two longest timbers.

No point in upgrading to a 12' extension as this was a one-time deal and I still plan to upgrade to a remote mill sometime.

I'm beginning to see a pattern developing : :.

[customsawyer]

That is how it starts. I am shocked that it has not happened to you earlier with the trees you have to choose from. I have been wondering if the wireless remote LT70 they have now could run on a 24' ext.

[Dave Shepard]

Our mill is the LT40 Wireless. My boss ordered our mill before I was hired, and I'm glad he got the wireless over the Command station, as I've always known I'd be sawing long stuff. With wireless, you can be anywhere around the mill (up to 900 ft. :D) you want. Especially handy when the wind is blowing the sawdust. ;)

[customsawyer]

I think the LT70 has a different set up and is required to be with in 20'.

[Dave Shepard]

WM website shows 24' BX for LT70 Non Command station remote. Only difference between non-remote and wireless remote is the controller inside the Accuset2 box.