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Walkie-Talkie Suggestions

Started by doctorb, January 06, 2011, 03:39:47 PM

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doctorb

I have a cabin in Canada on a lake about 1.5 miles wide and 5 miles long.  When I go out fishing, often by myself, or my kids go on the water, I use a pair of walkie-talkies to have an easy contact with "home base".  My cabin is elevated about 100 feet straight up a rock cliff, and is right on the shore.  There are a few trees around the cabin, but for the most part we are at tree top level or above.

My question is.....why can't I find a reliable pair of walkie-talkies that will cover this entire area?  The ones I have purchased claim up to an 18 mile range, but they really do not perform any where near that (Sorry, they are in Canada for the winter so I can't provide the make and model.  I purposely looked for long-range walkie-talkies when I made this purchase.).  Our cabin is in the middle of the long axis of the lake, so the longest call is probably 3. - 3.5 miles.  Often, the reception is so bad you can't identify anything that's spoken.  Cell phones would suffice but then I would have to have international plans on a bunch of cell phones, which is expensive.  Does anyone have any knowledge of devices that will serve my purposes?  It's a little frustrating when I can see my boathouse in the distance and not be able to talk to someone at the cabin.  Appreciate any insight or suggestions.  Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Radar67

Have you tried hand held CB radios? I have an old pair of Realistic from Radio Shack with three channels that do pretty good in the woods. We used to use them while hunting to keep in touch with each other. I've talked 2 to 2.5 miles with them.
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Jeff

I got some for Christmas I could charge up and test for you.
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Ezekiel 22:30

doctorb

I have not tried the CB's yet and would welcome any first hand experience with them.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Ianab

Thought about buying a couple of cheap pre-pay cell phones locally. I know you can get them here for about $50, and that has $20 of calls / txts included.

Just leave one in the cabin, and take one on the boat. No monthly plan, no international roaming etc

Another thing we do here if we go to Australia is to buy an Aussie "Sim card" for your Vodafone handset. Then you have a different Aussie local number when you put that card in.
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beenthere

Doc
Maybe some code using the existing radios.  Something like Morse code for:

Come home
Stay away
Dinner time
Send food
Send money
I still love you
Help (SOS)

If out on the lake prolly don't want long conversations anyway. :)
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SwampDonkey

Walkie talkies pretty much have to have line of site. Although the weather tower up here I can get 30 miles away. We use them, and if a guy is down behind a hill he probably can't here. Probably good for 500 meters in the woods. CB's like Cobra probably 1-3 miles in woods roads. In open fields several miles. I can pick up truckers a long way off from home. I'm on a ridge with big fields. Cell phones are useless away from the main arteries, most lakes are off the beaten path around here. If you're in a settlement around a lake, you might have a tower. Not always. Out where we work no cell phone coverage, CB's are mandatory for truckers, they must call every KM on their route.
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Jeff

We've had some "18 mile"  radios up to the cabin. Midland and Motorolas. I'm not sure how they come up with that rating unless its straight up.  We can get about 1/2 mile with them in the woods and around 1.5 miles across the water.  The kids got me a new and supposedly better set of rechargeables for Christmas. They are still in the packaging.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

SwampDonkey

Yeah, these are 45 mile Motorola ones I have, but you can't get that range talking, just listening to the Wx channel. Of course the packaging don't say Wx versus speech. And the fact that the tower has a lot stronger output than a hand held radio. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Mooseherder

We have a couple at our Camp also.
I don't remember the brand but they don't work well either. ::)

Kevin

Doc, do you have ac power at the camp?

pineywoods

Doctorb without getting into technical details and legal problems, your best bet would be handheld cb radios. Battery size is important. Bigger is better. Even then, the limiting factor is antenna size. Get one for the cabin that has a jack for an external antenna and hook it to a  full sized cb antenna on the roof. By full sized, we mean about 17 ft wide by 8 ft high. I am assuming it's legal for a US citizen to operate a cb radio in canada. I know at one time it wasn't.

Anything other than low powered walkie-talkies, cb radios, and aircraft radios will most likely involve getting in bed with the canadian equivalent of the fcc.
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SwampDonkey

Shouldn't be any issues with you bringing a CB radio and using it. I had one last summer and went from Canada to Michigan and back, no troubles.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

doctorb

Yes, Kevin, we have full electric.  This cabin is not really roughing it!  Indoor plumbing, kitchen, separate beer frig, all the necessities :D

I think the "two-way radios" (Midland Motorola Cobra) are different than CB (Also made by the same manufacturers) radios.  There are several different frequencies used, including newer ones that use 900kHz, the same frequency as cordless phones.  I am not much of a conspiracy theorist, but it seems a little wierd that they talk about maximum range of "X" miles when the average coverage is so much shorter than that.

I have been on the internet today and found some claiming to go 38 miles!  Interesting remark by SwampDonkey.  He may be right that they measure distance of reception from a tower transmission and not distance from a hand held unit of the same type.  Jeff, your post makes it sound like you've been to my cabin and used my radios!  When did you sneak up there?  Your description is exactly my same experience.

I think that the wattage power of the unit matters and I need to find the largest watt transmitter I can to increase the liklihood of this improving my reception.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

doctorb

Pineywoods - I think your suggestion would solve the problem, but the antenna is not much smaller than my cabin!
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

SwampDonkey

CB have a longer range for sure. We used marine radios and we could use BCtel repeater towers to call like a phone. You needed an account. You held the call button down for 2 or 3 seconds and release to reach the operator. You then gave the account number. You only had privacy one way.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

scsmith42

The range of any wireless radio is usually dependant upon five things.

First, the frequency that it operates on.  All things considered, the lower the frequency, the longer the range for a given power output.

Second, the power output of the device.  Most modern cell phones are .5 watt output on frequencies in the 1.8 Ghz range.  Older CB's were 4 watt down in 400 Mhz as I recall.  I've seen some handheld ham radio's that could talk to South America from North America. 

Third, the gain of the antenna.  Longer whip antennas have more gain, and thus amplify the signal.

Four - the terrain.  Signals travel farther where there is clear, line of sight.

Fifth, the amount of other local devices operating on similar frequencies.  The more RF around, the more interference, and as the "noise floor" goes up, the signal quality goes down.

When you're comparing options, keep these things in mind.

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WildDog

Doc I am no "Tech head" but its quite simple, the problem is Canada is metric like us down here, you need a set that transmitts in kilometres :)
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doctorb

WildDog- Oh, it's more than just the miles to kilometers conversion.  You've got to consider the Canadian$ to US$ difference as well! ;D

scsmith- thanks for your post.  I don't think I have a problem with #'s 4 or 5 on your list.  While there are islands throughout the lake, they are mostly small and don't have massive stands of trees.  Our cabin is up, direcly straight up, and right on the shoreline so there is a minimal terrain blockage in my cabin locaion.  There are relatively few cabins on this lake with no urban area nearby, so I think the amount of interference from other sources is minimal.

I have to think, as others have stated and have experienced, that I simply don't have the optimal device with adequate power to do the job that I am asking it to do.  I have noted some handhelds with longer antennae.  These may need to be further investigated.  I would like confirmation that the CB units go farther, as this may solve my problem.  Looking online, you would think that the CB units are being "phased out", as there are fewer of them from which to choose, as compared to the newer devices.

As necessity seems to drive creativity, I can't understand, with others experiencing the same lack of satisfaction with these products, that better devices aren't out there.  When you go to the store and see that a unit has a range of 12 or 18 miles, and it barely receives at a range just over a mile, I feel like we are all being duped a bit!  People would buy a unit, and be willing to pay more for it,  that reproducibly transmits, say 5 miles, through most terrain.  Maybe cell phones are preventing the development of such a device.

Appreciate all who chimed in.  Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Kevin

With AC I would go with a cb base station in the cottage with an external ground plane antenna .
Protect it from lightning.

Jeff

Wildflower and I met during the cb craze of the 70's. She was talking to someone from the base station at her grampa's junkyard and I butted in from 10 miles away. I was at a weekend church youth group float trip on the Muskegon river. I had driven my own car up there and had a C.B. in it.  Somehow talked her into having her mom bring her out into the middle of the woods to meet me. :D

That was this car, only it was just flat black primer at the time. I was 16. Bought the car with a blown engine for $75 and my brother-in-law gave me a 440 out of his wrecked Chrysler New Yorker. He had got that engine from a wrecked coleman city police car. :)  I not only had a CB I had an 8 track too! :D

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

doctorb

Jeff-

Let me get this straight....

You met your wife over a CB channel in a car with an engine salvaged from not one but two total wrecks.  Your still together.  Do you still have the car????  How about the CB radio?  I could put it in my cabin. :D :D
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Jeff

Nope, don't have the car. At the time I met Tammy I actually had a 383 in it out of an old station wagon. Tammy's dad helped me put the 444 in it and paint it a few months after meeting Tammy.  He and I took it for a test drive down M-66 without the hood on and when we went past Tammy's mother, we were doing 145 mile an hour.  Tammy's mom would not let her ride in it after that.  I ended up trading it in on a 76 Plymouth Volare with a slant 6 in it. I was never sure whether I was gaining or losing manhood over that deal. :-\
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

doctorb

That is one great story.  Fact is funnier than fiction, every time! :D :D :D  You don't hear much mention of the Volare anymore, wonder why!
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Bro. Noble

Well, back about the same time Jeff is talking about,  We bought a couple of Midland hand held CBs .  We had planned to use them on the farm after Dad broke his leg in a remote location and although we found him right away, we thought we should have better communications.  The best I remember, we could communicate pretty well over a couple of miles in pretty rough terrain,  but they were just too big to carry around so we quit using them for that purpose.  I was working about 50 miles from home at the time and needed a car with good milage, so I bought a new 75 vega for $2500.  Part of the reason for the low price was that it was orange :o :o  Part of it was because it didn't have a radio ::)  Well driving home at night with no radio was real boring so I got a car CB antenna and plugged one of the waldie talkies into it.  At that time you had to buy crystals for each channel and they were expensive.  I think it came with the emergency channel and I added the truckers channel.  I was amazed at how far it would reach at times but it was easily reliable for 5 miles.  I forget the power rating,  but it was limited by FCC regulations.  I think the antenna is the key.

Jeff,  that vega was just a 4 banger,  but I bet I could have outrun your Volarie -----at least over the hills and around the curves to where I worked at night :D :D :D
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