small skidder

logman81 · January 05, 2011, 01:26:56 PM

I'm thinking about up grading from my tractor to a small older skidder. Looking for a small machine that can maneuver around in the tight woods to do wood lot thinning's and house lots. Would also like one that is reliable and easy to work on and cheap to run and fix when needed. Looking for opinions on brands and models. Will be using it mostly to skid firewood and some saw logs and clear house lots with. After landing the resent 75 acre thinning job it's making me think I need to up grade a little. ???

Ron Scott · January 05, 2011, 05:36:46 PM

You might consider an Iron Mule.

Frank H. · January 05, 2011, 05:43:13 PM

Old Treefarmer C4. Parts available at napa, easy to fix and maintain. For that matter, any old skidder with a 3 53, 4 speed warner t-18 (junk yard find in 70s trucks) and rockwell rears.

lumberjack48 · January 05, 2011, 06:27:06 PM

A C5d Tree farmer, 353 Detroit, stick shift, Model 20 winch. Don't get one with a Ford motor way under powered. I have worked with TJ's and 440 J D's there good machines, for dollar up keep, easy to work on , you can't beat the C5d, its a reliable skidder.

mad murdock · January 05, 2011, 07:41:45 PM

Garrett Model 10 or Model 15 or 15A. There are a few of them around. They were the precursor of the CanCar line of Tree Farmers, Garrett invented the Tree Farmer and trademarked the name. They sold it to CanCar in the lat 1960's. Early C4 is almost the same machine from what I can see. Parts are easy to get at any autoparts store.

CX3 · January 05, 2011, 07:47:25 PM

I sure do like a 440 john deere

cjfrank · January 05, 2011, 08:42:31 PM

I surely tink you cud fin an old pettybone for lil or not'n and they too have da parts at napa. Me too from up der in does parts of mn. You betcha, don't ya no. I wurk in da voods ovr der.

logman81 · January 05, 2011, 09:13:10 PM

I'm thinking a c4 tree farmer with the 353 Detroit might be the machine for me. There's a guy near me in Connecticut that is selling a older c4 for $6500 I might just go check it out if he still has it. He says it is in good working condition and the price seems fair if it works like it should. Does any one know or have any specs on these machines.

lumberjack48 · January 06, 2011, 12:30:27 PM

A C4 with a 353 was called a pulp wood special, it had the light rear ends , my brother had one. With any of these older machines i would make sure it had the heavy rear ends.
The skidder in the pic had all 3 names on it, Garrett, CanCar, and Tree Farmer, a C4 like the one in the pic would be a find with a 4 cylinder Ford Industrial gas engine, i could pull 20 cords on 5 to 7 gals. I personally would not buy anything with a Ford Diesel engine.
A older 440 John Deere with a stick shift would be a good find. The only problem i remember were the steel hyd lines, boy were hard to change, they were all changed over to rubber as they broke[ 40 yrs ago ]
Its really hard to buy a older skidder with out buying a money pit, there is so much to look for, motor, clutch, tran, rear ends, winch, frame cracks, steering cylinders, blade cylinders, hyd pump, tires, radiator, ujoints and the blade for cracks, it can get scary and over whelming.
This is why i used to lease with option to buy a skidder before i bought it, i would make sure it was a good one.

logman81 · January 06, 2011, 06:48:46 PM

Are the rockwell rears a must in a small skidder like the c4. What did most of them come with for axles? Are there any specific things to watch out for on the c4 models. What are the specs on the the machine? It is a 1974 machine, what does it weigh?, Model of winch? Where can you get the paint for it? Any info you can be provided this would be my first skidder so I'm trying to learn about them and get as much info before I start looking around so I will know what to look for.

madmari · January 06, 2011, 07:19:09 PM

I went through this process in the last year. Started with a tractor and then bought a IH S7 (1968) skidder with a 3-53 and gearmatic 19 for small money. The machine worked good, but really tippy. I found out the hard way that there were serious front axle cracks that had been welded by somebody that should not weld.
I then bought a Timberjack 230 after scouring it with a magnifying glass for 7 hours. This has a 3-53 and is really nice to work on. Parts are readily available and the machine is very stable and tough. It's easier to get on and off and did I mention it's tough?
Never ran a TF c4, but I looked at afew- I still prefer the TJ.
Best of luck- really check out any machine you look at!

lumberjack48 · January 07, 2011, 12:03:15 PM

Logman81, one more thing, make sure to check the front cradle bushings, and the pivot bushings, the middle of the skidder, if these are wore out, pretty big repair.
Some guys run there equipment right in the ground, my father had a C5d, he ran it 16 yrs never fixed anything. When he retired, that poor old C5, i don't think there was one thing that didn't need work, it was like a dish rag, he sold it for $3500. ,i thought that was to much money for junk.

maine tree farmer · January 07, 2011, 02:44:23 PM

Great postings,

I have a c4 with Garrett written in weld script under the arch and Can Car on either side of the nose, the transfer case is called a Tree Farmer. I think it's a 1964, and has a 172ci. Ford Diesel.

I've been told it was the first articulating skidder. I remember in 1964 seeing the first front end loader (Payloader?)that articulated, and had everyone excited.

I've always wondered if that concept started with an early Tree Farmer (Can Car )?????

logman81 · January 07, 2011, 03:51:27 PM

Thanks for all the info keep it coming! Need to know anything and everything I can about the c4. Are the rockwell axles a must for this size skidder? Where can you get paint for it? I like to have my equipment looking good when I take them to jobs. That is if I can find one. What is the average price for a good running c4?

ga jones · January 07, 2011, 05:02:18 PM

I have a 1963 tree farmer . Ive pulled some realy big red oak with it 40 inch at the stump. 70 feet (one at a time) but the machine handles it. Granted i dont do long pulls. A few hundred yards. Ive also pulled tree lenght hemlock 24 inch at the stump 3 at a time. Mine is a 353 detroit with 18.4x34 tires And It is a little tipsy..The best thing is to find whats popular in your area .Thats the easyest thing and other people near you can help you figure things out.timberjacks around here but I couldnt pass up the price on my tf.

lumberjack48 · January 07, 2011, 06:14:00 PM

I worked for a guy that had a 1960 Garrett, it was dam'est looking thing, the back end was all tube frame, it had a Ford gas motor[ 4 cylinder ].
Have you tractor loggers looked at that Farmi, i don't know anything about them, looks pretty slick to me. [ hooks up to the 3 point hitch ]

logman81 · January 07, 2011, 08:58:31 PM

I've got a fransguard winch on my 40 hp tractor. Very similar to the farmi it works very well for skidding firewood logs and doing thinnings. I saw a Garrett for sale awhile back on the net it had a ford diesel in it and a deere winch cool little skidder.

Sounds like the c4 machines can pull some decent wood as long as it has the 353 in it. ;D Love the sound of them I work with a guy who has a clark 664 with the 353.

Ironwood · January 07, 2011, 09:34:47 PM

I think you could find something like this Ditch Witch, little Ford diesel, and wayyy cool. I think he wanted $4500 I dunno if hes still got it.

red · January 07, 2011, 09:37:19 PM

Brave man to stand there while you did Donuts Reid

mad murdock · January 07, 2011, 09:59:16 PM

Quote from: maine tree farmer on January 07, 2011, 02:44:23 PM
Great postings,

I have a c4 with Garrett written in weld script under the arch and Can Car on either side of the nose, the transfer case is called a Tree Farmer. I think it's a 1964, and has a 172ci. Ford Diesel.

I've been told it was the first articulating skidder. I remember in 1964 seeing the first front end loader (Payloader?)that articulated, and had everyone excited.

I've always wondered if that concept started with an early Tree Farmer (Can Car )?????

Dwight Garrett of Enumclaw, Washington invented the articulated skidder in 1949, built the model 10 and model 15/15A Tree Farmer into the 1960's and sold the Tree Farmer trade marked name and the design to CanCar. Garrett went on building skidders into the 1980's (model 21, model 30), and continued to support the type selling parts for the machines and helping operators up until last year when the grandson of Dwight Garrett, Don Garrett passed away. https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,44818.0.html
this is a thread on the subject from a few months back. http://www.vannattabros.com/skidder.html this webpage gives a concise history of the skidder, with pictures and other info.

logman81 · January 08, 2011, 07:58:36 AM

That ditch witch is cool but I need a purpose built machine for the woods. Don't want to spend to much time modifying something to make it work. Thanks for the history on the tree farmers very interesting. I would like to know how the c4's perform in the woods. Are they tippy? How much wood can they pull in a turn? Weight? Winch pulling power? Any week points?

Ironwood · January 08, 2011, 08:17:12 AM

I actually looked that thing over pretty good, and it looks fine for woods work, and at $4500, I figured the hoe on the front was worth around $1500-2000 alone. Do what you will, but if I were looking for a small skidder that Ditch Witch would be awsome. There was a 440 right across the yard from it (borrowed one here on property for 3 months once,s o I know the machine) and other than the winch they would be pretty compareable in the woods. AND big and, parts for the Ditch Witch may be easier and cheaper to find, just look at all the listings people have for older skidder parts, just a thought..........

Ironwood

lumberjack48 · January 08, 2011, 12:18:40 PM

I ran and owned c4's and c5's for 30 yrs, with Perkins, Ford [diesel & gas], Detroit [ 353 & 453] and the Deutz 5 cylinder air cooled engines .
Winch's, model 8 & 9 Gearmatic, model 19 & 20 Gearmatic and the Tulsa Hyd winch.
I ran the small and the big planetary rear ends, tire's, 16.9x30's. 18.4x34's and 18.4x26's

I never believed in over loading, i always tried to average a cord a every turn and making 4 to 6 turns a hour, with a c4 or the c5. If i had a long pull i would double up my drags.
I don't remember the pulling power on the model 9, but i know it would break a 9/16 mainline, trust me its all the winch you'd ever need. I skidded many thou's of cords with the 9, 19 and the 20 Gearmatic there all a very good winch's, I've rebuild them, a simple winch.
[Tippy] You do not want 18.4x34's on a c4 it's a accident waiting to happen. I used 16.9x30's on my c4, i never had a problem on steep ground. But its like anything you have to know your machines limits. [ 18.4x26's would be the better pick]
I used c5's with 18.4x34's and the 18.4x26's , a c5 with 18.4x26's road better, pulled better, and was stabler on steep ground
Here's my pick, a c5d with a 353, model 19 or 20 Gearmatic, with 18.4x26 tires, its the best all around, when you get in bigger wood, she'll huff & puff and blow black smoke and head for the landing.
If i wasn't in this wheelchair, I'd go look'in with you, I'd give it the road test.

logman81 · January 08, 2011, 01:14:17 PM

Thank you so much for the info on the tree farmers lumberjack48. It seems you are the one to talk to when it comes to these skidders. Your right about the winches that's plenty of pulling power for me. I think I'll have to start looking for one, probably a c4 with the 353 and 18.4x26 tires I think the smaller machine would be best. I do mostly thinnings for private land owners and skid firewood for them and my self. What are the difference's between the c4 and c5?

lumberjack48 · January 08, 2011, 01:43:36 PM

The c5 is all around heavier machine, like i said in a earlier post, a c4 with a 353 was called a pulp wood special. A c4 came with the light rear ends, the c5 has the heavy ones.
A c5 will get around just as good as a c4 in a small area.
The only thing is the braking system, all the TF's i had came with the drum brake, this was a broblem.
The best is to convert this to a disk brake system, i did this to my c5, i got what i needed off a junked S8 International. pretty simple fix.