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D&L Timbertech double cut mill

Started by Doc Hickory, December 26, 2010, 01:19:13 AM

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Doc Hickory

Hey guys;
I'm a newbie just getting my toes wet, researching portable sawmills and trying to learn what I can  from wiser heads. Does anyone have experience with a D&L dimensional sawmill? It's a double cut mill, not a swinger. I have got a sniff of one not too far from me, a low hour unit with trailer package for $12,500. Does that sound like it may be a reasonable price. Seller has gotten a larger mill so he's selling this one.  My intention is to build a retirement business, as well as sawing for my own use. There are several mills in my area of about every type...band, circle, etc, but I'm not aware of one like this. It looks similar to a Mobile Dimension Mill except it is married to it's trailer package which means I'll have to load the logs onto the mill instead of setting the mill up around the log. It'll take a 24" x 20'6" log, can add extensions if necessary. Any input would be greatly appreciated!
Feed a fire, starve a termite...

bandmiller2

Doc, sounds like a decent deal to me if theirs nothing major wrong.Have the fella show you how and cut some logs before you buy.Old Dan is our resident expert on those type mills he'll be up soon and on this post like a hen on a june bug. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

DanG

I'd hate to make a liar out of old Frank on the day after Christmas, so I'll give it a go. ::) :D  I won't agree that I am the expert, but I do have a little bit of working knowledge about those mills.

First, that price seems excellent, assuming the mill is in good shape.  I'm wondering what kind of power it has, though all of the D&L mills I've seen seem to have adequate power.  The D&Ls are similar in concept to the MD mills, but their operation is somewhat different.  D&L's saw always runs parallel to the bed, so you have to adjust the log to compensate for taper, whereas on the MD you adjust the saw for that.  The disadvantage of the D&L is the limitation on log size due to the "four post" arrangement, whereas the MD's open arrangement will accomodate larger logs.  D&L's advantage is in stability, also due to the four post arrangement.  The saw is not hung out there in the middle of that long beam, so it is stronger and more stable.

I cannot speak for quality of construction or factory support on the D&L, but will say that they are very good on the MD.

Like any good mill, that D&L is excellent within its limitations.  You just have to decide whether you can live with those limitations.

Old Dan. :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

argyle1

hi Doc
D&L's shop is about 5 hrs away from here, so we have seen a few of there mills.Whenever we see a second hand one the size you're talking its around 18-20,000 dollars cad---so the one you're looking at might be a real good deal---have you checked out their website.
I think their mills are full of real good ideas, but i some areas are a bit light---tho easily beefed up
I ve been thinking about one myself for a "retirement mill", as my old head rig without an edger is getting a bit to labour intensive (mostly 'cause my birthday was to long ago)----i think i have most of what i'd need to build one laying aroun here, and i have 3 ph. power
Brian

KellyH

My experience with these mills easily fits into a sewing thimble but I did find this link listing a used D&L.  I don't think it's the same model you're looking at but I thought you might find it helpful.

http://www.dltimbertech.com/used-mills/

Good luck in your search for that perfect mill!

Happy New Year!  smiley_striped_tophat 
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is who you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."

Doc Hickory

Thanks for the input, guys!  This story is getting better...just spoke with the owner and made arrangements to meet with him after New Year's is past to see mill in action. It has a 2 cylinder 25 hp Kohler gas power plant and he's added hydrostatic power to move the head, which I'm thinking down the road can also run a a set of log loader arms. The mill has less than 100 hours on it, so it's barely broken in. Teeth are replaceable, another plus! I do declare, I think I'm beginning to get a bit excited about the possibilities here. Any further comments still wanted and appreciated. You good folks enjoy the rest of the holidays, be safe, and may the good Lord love ya real good!
Feed a fire, starve a termite...

backwoods sawyer

It is looking like you may have been bitten by the "BUG" Bad news is there is no cure, however making sawdust sure helps.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

DanG

Yup.  The "Sawdust Bug" is viral, and all you can do is treat the symptoms.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

doublecut

Hi All.
We will be having a new line up of mills coming out in the spring, with some exciting news to follow that i can't quite disclose right now. I have been away on another project building Timber Frame Homes www.haventimberhomes.com. But we do have another line up of D&L 180 Degree swingers to come out in early spring. Hey DanG how are ya  8)
Doublecut

wdncno

Make sure you see it running and sawing, and don't immediately be awed by how clever it is.  Be sure to check the welds at any stress point on the frame.  My experience with D & L, as a purchaser of a new mill, was- to put it mildly- not one of the better ones in my 35 years of business.

doublecut

I am sorry to hear that micheal. Please call me if there is anything i can help with.
Doublecut

Bandmill Bandit

D&L double cut is a saw mill and that is about as far as I am willing to go as far as mill quality goes.

In Canada we had a farm equipment manufacturing company call Versatile that started in the 50s if i remember right. Their equipment was decent and pretty well built but it was always giving the owners grief be cause versatile equipment was never completely finished from the factory. When you got the stuff home you had to spend a week to make retro fits that made a piece of mediocre equipment a piece of reliable equipment that was still a pain in the back side.

After a week of off bearing for a D&L double cut and the acre and a half of knee deep saw dust it produces, I relegated it to the same category as Versatile Farm equipment in my books. If you have time and shop and a limited budget then D&L will get you sawing. If none of those are a factor than a band saw (any Band saw) is a better choice.

I had actually decided to buy a new D&L in 2007 and took the advice to go out and work with some one that owned one. Boy am I glad I did! by the end of the second day of five days I knew I would not be buying a D&L. Did a few hours with several different  band mills and it didn't take long to find the "John Deere" of the portable band mills. It is orange and that is what I own and have not a single regret except that I shoulda bought the LT50.          
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

sawdust


I got to run one of these for a few days last summer. I loved it, the mill brings you the lumber. Down side.. there is ALOT of sawdust and no real way to get it out of the road except a shovel. The small Honda powering the hydraulics was a pain and the dogs could be improved on. There are all kinds of things on it that a person would want to customize.
Sharpening in place was very easy and was not needed often. The blades almost always are cutting out of the wood rather than draggin the bark and grit into the wood.
The fellow that owned the one I used has it for sale in central Alberta. It was one of the largest ones that Lindsay built.
I think they are very expensive.
i think there are picture in my album.
Sawdust
comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable.

beenthere

Seems like a big pile of sawdust would be a good sign that the mill was doing a lot of cutting. True, a bit more kerf but that isn't always a bad thing either.
Guess they leave the design of sawdust removal up to the operator. :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: beenthere on December 30, 2010, 03:04:24 PM
Seems like a big pile of sawdust would be a good sign that the mill was doing a lot of cutting. True, a bit more kerf but that isn't always a bad thing either.
Guess they leave the design of sawdust removal up to the operator. :)

When you find a ready market that will pay the equivalent of MBF prices for saw dust I may be interested. Until then I will take the extra lumber that a band mill delivers and that is a significant dollar value. More saw dust per day doesn't equate to more saleable lumber. In fact from my experience, a band mill of similar spec will deliver a significantly larger pile of marketable lumber with a whole lot less clean up.
   
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

sawdust


Band mill, what part of the province you from?

sawdust
comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable.

NZJake

Circular shavings ground down to sawdust will actually look a lot like bandsaw dust, probably around the same sized pile at the end of the day too.

Circular shavings are usually very useful. The circular makes up the difference of kerf loss through consistancy between sharpens.

A lot of builders like the bandsaw look of cut though. No way around this for us circulars yet, you've got the edge here.

Jake.
Wife says I woke up one morning half asleep uttering thin kerf and high production, I think I need a hobby other than milling?

slohand

I had a D&L DoubleCut and sold it after running 800 hours. My comments would be similar to others: too lightly built for anything but hobby use. I spend a lot of time fixing, modifying, improving etc.
I also once owned a Mighty Mite which was a pretty good little mill and much more robust than the more commonly found Mobile Dimension (originally a MM clone). Mighty Mite still makes mills (I think) but they are kind of hard to find used.
If you're really serious about the double cutting edging style circle mill the Duncan Beam Saw is the ultimate heavy weight, but definitely not portable.
All these circle mills are huge, messy sawdust producers. Ideally mount it high above a concrete pad and use a garden tractor with blade to keep it cleaned out underneath.
As for bandmills, the orange one is well engineered, but also well engineering to keep you buying their specialized parts and a pile of blades every year.
I currently run a Select double cut bandmill fixed unit. Bigger and not cheap but worth it. Their smaller diesel mill would be a great little portable and definitely a large step above anything else because they are very reliable and blades can be resharpened probably a 100 times.

Good luck with your search for a mill.

Doc Hickory

Hey guys;
Still chewing over options, not at all convinced yet which way to go. I like the thin kerf idea of a bandmill, but it seems they're more of a maintainence-intensive horse. The dimensional mill does produce more sawdust, but you don't have the extra steps to edge flitches.  I'm a little unhappy that this D&L is married to a trailer. I could get the same product with a Lucas swinger, just have to make 2 passes (down the log and back), instead of 1.  The Lucas will do very large trunks, a factor in their favor. The Lucas would also help delay acquisition of log handling equipment. Anyways, I got nothing but time, so I'm thinking my thinks until I think it's time to make a move. Thanks for all your comments-it's all grist for consideration. Y'all have a great New Years!
Feed a fire, starve a termite...

backwoods sawyer

Your primary use for the mill should have a lot to do with which mills are on your short list. Starting a retirement business can be a handful by its self. A dependable mill that is not going to take a lot of time to operate and maintain will give you more time to focus on other areas. Then again, there is always the challenge aspect of things.  ;D
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

weisyboy

buy a lucas, youll be flat out finding a bad report. ;D
god bless america god save the queen god defend new zealand and thank christ for Australia
www.weisssawmilling.com.au
http://www.youtube.com/user/weisyboy?feature=mhee
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000696669814&sk=photos

Doc Hickory

Hey Backwoods;
Challenges....wow, this is to be a retirement project, so the challenges I want are the ones I choose, not so much the kind that get shoved on ya.  I have some storage buildings I need for my own use I can saw out, and anticipate doing some work for others (will have to see how that pans out).  In reading tons of posts here I seem to encounter bunches of posts on replacing whatever gadget's gone awry on a bandmill but the swinger/circle boys just don't seem to have as many issues with maintenence. I don't really get my jollies by turning wrenches, would much rather turn trunks into boards. Weisy is right, I don't think I've read yet anyone who has a case of the sourbelly about a Lucas mill. The main knock I've thought of about Lucas is the teeth aren't easily replaceable like on a Peterson. I guess every mill has it's little quirks. If one mill had everything a person wanted all the others would go broke, right?
Feed a fire, starve a termite...

weisyboy

the blades on the lucas and peterson are all but identicle, i hav ea  jig for soldering new teeth on my lucas blades, and i have done more than 1 peterson blade on said jig.

you can alo get inserted tooth blades for them.

my lucas is over 10 years old and has done many thousands of hours and iv never had a serious problem, worst thing that happened was the started motor packed up.


every board has been exactly the size i set it to. from the very first log i cut with it.
god bless america god save the queen god defend new zealand and thank christ for Australia
www.weisssawmilling.com.au
http://www.youtube.com/user/weisyboy?feature=mhee
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000696669814&sk=photos

DanG

The Lucas is a fine little mill for sure, considering that it is a very basic manual mill.  It's great for youngsters in their 20's who have yet to figure out that backs and knees eventually wear out if you don't take care of them, just like sawmills do.

Doc Hickory, you only get the same product from these two mills as long as that product fits the capability of the smallest of them.  Well, you can get a 12x6 beam from a Lucas if you're willing to take the sawmill apart and reassemble it for each piece.  Now that isn't a slam against Lucas, but just a reminder that it just isn't in the same category as a D&L or MD.  It's about like comparing a LT15 to a LT40.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

doublecut

We are working on a feed works for a current customer in the US on our D&L 180 degree swing blade. Should have it out soon.
doublecut

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