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Author Topic: Nice Sticks  (Read 9523 times)

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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2010, 04:45:22 pm »
Also to keep in mind, we have a scaler's licensing and Act up here. Anyone who markets wood through crown or a marketing board has to have a license if they scale, according to the Act. I don't know how hard they lean on private mill owners, portable and such. But, pretty sure if I was a mill , (small, private or otherwise) buying my wood supply through a marketing board they would be looking for a scaler's license. ;) If I was to go to a farmer and buy logs direct, probably not. I think it's just the contract holders. You could bet that farmer knows something about scale. ;)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2010, 05:16:37 pm »
I bought a small load of ewp a couple of months ago. Guy wanted to scale the butt end. :D We were able to come to an agreement about it in the end. :-X
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Offline snowstorm

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2010, 05:19:26 pm »
the pine mill just down the road from here always was bangor rule now they international. most of mine goes to irving in dixfeild tho the other mill is only a mile away. he always tries to pack all he can 6800' on a triaxle truck is not unusual.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2010, 05:42:09 pm »
I bought a small load of ewp a couple of months ago. Guy wanted to scale the butt end. :D We were able to come to an agreement about it in the end. :-X

Don't blame him, I'd try it to. :D :D :D j/k

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2010, 05:45:34 pm »
Seems to me if you have the experience behind you, many going through the ranger school course will pick up their licensing.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline Ken

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2010, 05:21:24 am »
I had over 9000 bd ft on the last load with 2/3 of it being the top grade at $400/   The only mill that I am aware of in NB that uses the Bangor rule is Twin Rivers in Plaster Rock.  It is not uncommon for us to get 8500-9000 bd ft on two bunks there if we send good (8"+) logs. 

The old 230 shown in the photo has been around for quite some time.  I am not sure if there is another piece of equipment in anyones fleet that is as tough as the old "jacks".  They are very easy to work on and just keep chugging along. 

Cheers
Ken
Lots of toys for working in the bush

Offline northwoods1

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2010, 06:18:08 am »
I had over 9000 bd ft on the last load with 2/3 of it being the top grade at $400/   The only mill that I am aware of in NB that uses the Bangor rule is Twin Rivers in Plaster Rock.  It is not uncommon for us to get 8500-9000 bd ft on two bunks there if we send good (8"+) logs. 

The old 230 shown in the photo has been around for quite some time.  I am not sure if there is another piece of equipment in anyones fleet that is as tough as the old "jacks".  They are very easy to work on and just keep chugging along. 

Cheers
Ken

That is interesting your getting so many b.f. on your loads. That is way more than what a typical load here would scale out at. That is why I asked how much your loads ##? The difference between the scales used wouldn't seem to account for the differences in load volume, maybe the guy scaling your loads in just a really nice guy :D
Below is a pic off a job I cut. The run of wood was bigger than what you are cutting there, but you can get an idea of what I am talking about. It would be unusual to have a load over 6000" here and most are closer to 5000'. Same type of double bunk arrangement your using. 80-90,000# depending on time of year. Typical load of pulp is 12-13 cords. I would love to have a load like what you showed scale out that high, man a guy could make good money sawing in the woods that way :)





 


Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2010, 06:39:43 am »
At our marketing board we used one trucker delivering veneer to Columbia Forest Products in PI, Maine on Bangor Rule. Using a straight triaxle with a pup and self loader would scale fairly consistently to around 8000 bf. Our regular loads of hardwood pulp averaged 38 metric tonnes per load (that's a 10 % heavier ton). Some fellows pushed that to 48 metric tonnes. You get to become real familiar with this when you handle scale slips for hundreds of loads submitted by truckers from the mill scale houses. We now have our own scales at our yard now. ;D I say our, because all of us woodlot owners bought and paid for and thus own the assets. We (from the farm) paid levy on about 12000 cord over the years so I'd say we, us, ours. ;) :D

I would say it's quite obvious and clear it's the scale used on them loads that yields more bf. ;D I can tell you right now that Irving is no logger's buddy on scaling. Probably the most hard nosed you can come up against. :D

Maybe the scaler is like Dave mentioned about his recent purchase agreement, scaling the but ends. :D

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline barbender

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2010, 09:09:05 am »
Usually a 5000' load over here is around #100,000, but that's red pine, the little bit of white pine I have hauled was way lighter than red pine.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline barbender

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2010, 09:12:31 am »
One pine mill here uses decimal c Ithink, is that Scribner? The other uses International.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline northwoods1

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2010, 09:16:54 am »
Usually a 5000' load over here is around #100,000, but that's red pine, the little bit of white pine I have hauled was way lighter than red pine.

Right, that is why I can't understand the discrepancy between the scales used, I mean Ken is talking about 9000' loads and a typical load here is about 5500' how is it quite obvious like swampdonkey says it is all in the scale? That doesn't sound right ??? according to the scale example he gave it doesn't seem to be that much of a difference.

Offline northwoods1

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2010, 09:21:43 am »
One pine mill here uses decimal c Ithink, is that Scribner? The other uses International.

Scribner and Scribner Decimal c are a little different, with decimal c it just rounds off the board feet to the nearest 10 board feet. Scribner is what is used around these parts.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2010, 01:18:11 pm »
I guess when I say it's hardwood weight I'm giving, everyone is still thinking white pine weight?  ::) ::) My mistake I guess. But we never moved any white pine in my area to amount to anything as I said in one of my first posts. Maybe someone is confusing a stick scale with a weight scale. I dunno. If your not convinced it's all in the scaling, and your saying your trailers are like ours for load capacity and we get twice the stick scale for the same load than I can't say much more. Maybe the world is really flat, I dunno. ;)

Scribner as pointed out yields quite a difference in scale. I don't care what name you want to call the scale rule, I'm paid on the board footage. ;) What are you getting for the better white pine?. Most I've heard from south of here is around $250-350. If your getting $600 or $700, which I doubt, then your not doing so bad. But it doesn't seem so to me. I can bet the difference in scale per log size is not constant. Doyle is a lot harder on scale with logs under 14" for instance, so the difference in scale is not a straight line on a graph of constant slope, more of parabolic curve. Use Excel and calculate the scale for each of the rules and graph the differences using International as a base line.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2010, 03:30:59 pm »
Don't laugh guys, old school break down, if hes 8 feet high, 7 feet wide, and all 16 footers, 7 cords each bunk. We have a 14 cord load, 2.5 cords per thro. turns it in to a 5600 food load.
I logged and trucked 30 yrs, never had a 8000 foot load, 4500 to 5500

I wouldn't ask any questions, I'd keep on truck' en . 8)

That's really nice timber, look's like some fun logging

I got so sick and tired of the short stick i started hauling all my pine tree length up to Page & Hill, Big Falls. MN., pretty hard to steal it that way.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2010, 04:52:44 pm »
The only mill that I am aware of in NB that uses the Bangor rule is Twin Rivers in Plaster Rock.  It is not uncommon for us to get 8500-9000 bd ft on two bunks there if we send good (8"+) logs.

Yes, because they have US sawmills as well.

We are more fortunate than others here in some ways. We have a short haul to the US at 3 crossings within 5-10 miles of the largest towns in our area and decent truck roads. Competition for Irving, and why we don't sell much to them. Most times they are the poorest price anyway.

Who does the check scaling at your mills down in the US? I think someone laughed at me the last time I asked. ::)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline Ken

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2010, 06:52:45 pm »
Northwoods,

Unfortunately the Irving Pine mill does not weigh the trucks when they arrive so I don't know the exact weight but my guess is close to 110 000 - 115 000  lbs loaded.   I agree that there seems to be a large discrepancy between scaling methods.  We find that the Bangor rule used by Twin Rivers (formerly Frasers) gives us an additional 10-15%.  I have seen loads with 3 bunks scale out over 13 000 bdft using that method of scaling.  Those truckers were very happy not to meet the highway authorities with the portable scales during those trips. 

The really sad thing is with much of todays curve sawing technology and high efficiency sawmills we as contractors are not getting paid for the amount of board feet that is actually being produced/ton delivered. 

Cheers
Lots of toys for working in the bush

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2010, 07:09:38 pm »
I don't know what the answer is, but some of it may be the result of buying timber tracts on a cruised scale before it's bucked and rolled to inspect the grade, including the inside. If it were done that way up here, the odds would not be in your favour if you think every smooth maple and birch is a nice sawlog or veneer log. Non-the-less we know what direct contracts with individuals did for price. It sucked, thus we organized into marketing boards.  8)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2010, 07:17:07 pm »
That is some nice wood your cutting there, and 8000' loads? That is a lot of wood :o I don't think I have ever had a load that big in my entire life :D how much does a load like that weigh#?

Come to Michigan much??? Scale loads every day with 8000+ feet on them. (scaled in scribner decimal C)

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2010, 07:42:25 pm »
Don't laugh guys, old school break down, if hes 8 feet high, 7 feet wide, and all 16 footers, 7 cords each bunk. We have a 14 cord load, 2.5 cords per thro. turns it in to a 5600 food load.

I can say one thing, the loads are taller than 8 feet from bed to top of the posts and wider than 7 feet.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline barbender

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Re: Nice Sticks
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2010, 12:06:35 am »
I don't know if we are confusing issues here or not, I am a little dense ::) But, the point I was trying to make and I think Northwoods is too, is that if I put what will scale out as 5500' of Red Pine logs on a truck I'm going to be overweight. With a three axle trailer we can run approx. 94,000# in the summer and 102,500 in the winter if I remember right (I haven't hauled since last winter, I forget quick ::)) There is no way we can get 8000' on and be even close to legal weight any time of the year, with the scale you get at the local mills. I just brought 2 loads of red pine logs home because it was smaller wood, mostly 10" tops 10-18' lengths, and when I tallied up what I had using the Scribner C scale, I figured that I would have been way ahead cutting the stuff into 100" bolts and sending them to the potlatch stud mill. They weigh scale, and a roughly #100,000 load converts to 11 1/2 cords or so at $89 cord. $1000 give or take. I figured scribner would only get me about 2500', at $205 per mbf. $500 or so, unless I am figuring wrong. I don't think I am as one of this mills main suppliers is only sending them wood that is too big to make Potlatch's 17"max size. The lumber scales beat you up bad on anything under 14".
Too many irons in the fire