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standing dead trees

Started by adk dan, December 09, 2010, 01:24:34 PM

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adk dan

We own 52 acres of mostly white pine. My question is, if a tree is standing dead well over a year, with no bark, is it dry enough to burn efficiently? We literally have dozens of these trees, which I feel is a valuable resource for heating.  I also want to use some to build an Adirondack lean-to.

northwoods1

Certain species will be good if there standing dead with the bark off, but white pine is not one of them the sapwood will begin deteriorating right off and the rest is not to far behind. Best thing for white pine is as soon as you see it is on the way out w/dying needles, take it down and process it. Even standing dead wood is not fully dried out it has to be split before it can fully season for burning, but being standing dead it will have less moisture than if it was green. Cut some up and try burning it see what happens. I think you'll find it would burn better if you split it and let it dry a bit.

doctorb

Interesting - Northwoods1:

I bought rounds this summer from 4 standing dead oak trees.  Bark mostly off by nature, and the rest removed prior to delivery.  I split and measured the MC on the smaller diameter stuff - say 6-8" - and found it acceptably dry - about 22-24%.  Larger rounds of 14-24'' measured higher 28-34%.  So, if I wanted to use standing dead timber for fuel immediately, it makes sense that the unsplit smaller diameter stuff will have seasoned  faster than larger diameter rounds.  Just common sense really, but the numbers confirm our beliefs.  I do not know how long these trees had been dead.  Doctorb
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Magicman

doctorb, you said "standing dead oak trees".  I suspect very different from the white pine that northwoods1 was referring to.

Customsawyer just detailed splitting and sawing a large oak.  Very solid lumber inside even though the sapwood had rotted off.  I have sawed oak logs that looked ridiculously rotten that had very solid lumber inside.



Rotten log
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doctorb

Magicman-

How long does it take for an oak to rot after it falls and lies on the forest floor?  (probably temperature and moisture related, I would think)  I have taken some of these downed trees for firewood and have been impressed that there's often a lot of good wood inside.  This past year I cut up some black locust trees that have been down for as long as I've owned my house (11 years).  My neighbor was laughing at me.  He stopped laughing when he saw what the inside of those rounds looked like!  I am burning some of that wood today, as I type this!  Doctorb
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Magicman

doctorb, our Cherrybark Red Oak and White Oak is the longest lasting that we have.  It will last longer standing or if the limbs or root ball keeps the log off of the ground.  That Red Oak log on my mill had laid on the ground for 5 years. (Since hurricane Katrina)

I don't think that Black Locust will ever rot.
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breederman

It will be a full time job feeding the fire if you are trying to keep warm with white pine in Boonville! ;) white pine will need to be split and dried for a bit before it will burn good.,even if standing dead.but it will dry out pretty quick after you split it.
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WDH

Most dead standing trees stay wet inside for a very long time.
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Banjo picker

Dan I don't know anything about you, but anybody that has a little banjo man for his pic. is ok by me...Welcome and be careful cutting standing dead anything...I cut a bunch about two years ago that had been killed by overspray on adjointing land...they won't cut like a live tree....ex. lean may be slightly one way but the tree may go the other ..I think it is from sunshine drying one side of the tree more than the other , making it heavier on the dark side....just a guess...Tim
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Bandmill Bandit

Standing dead white pine will be a lot more than 1 year dead if the bark is off from wind rain sleet and snow. There is a fine line between punky sap wood and good fuel wood when it comes to most of the pine species and the difference is about one summer. When the tree is dry enough standing, to allow the local ant and termites to begin setting up house keeping your about a summer to late on cutting it down from my experience. I have found that the best time to take em is when you see the ants starting to make saw dust at the base before the bark is off coming off. If you see the bark coming off in big chunks after a good rain, thats a pretty good indication that the ants have pretty much done the easy part of the work of loosening the bark. That is the point at which you still get some decent wood. The fall before that happens is even better. Take em in may/ june ish in this country, split and pile em you will get a pretty good heat supply for the winter. I have even milled a few and got some pretty decent fencing lumber out of them. mind you the fence was a decorative garden fence designed for squirrels to fight on.
    
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cheyenne

.......Will it burn efficiently......... In a word......NO.......I will assume you have a wood stove....If it is an air tight the pine will just lay in there and smolder with very little burn & very little heat....If it has a damper in the pipe you'll have to crack it open to get a good burn but you still won't get a lot of heat.......I burn Pine & hemlock all the time & unless it's been split & stacked to dry for at least 3 months it won't burn worth a Dang....The other thing is you won't get a good bed of coals from softwood & you have to feed it like crazy but if it's dry it will cook you out of the house....I burn fresh cut dead standing in the early fall & spring just to take the chill off & it's nice & comfy......When the cold hits I go to the dry stuff & the good hardwoods......To much moisture in the wood is what fills the chimney with creosote.......Cheyenne
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thecfarm

As building material I would not and do not use white pine that is dead. But I have and do burn it for heat. I have a stove that has some sheet metal in it,Ashley.The pine burns hot and fast.Kinda warped the sheet metal,but it is still usable for heat.I have a OWB now and it does wonderful for heat in there.With the Ashley it takes alot to keep the house warm.But with the OWB it really not that much differant from good hardwood. cheyenne right,sounds like he's burned it before.With the pine that I burn,it's been dead for years,no bark and the first few inches is kinda punky,but born dry.So I have no problems burning it.Hope you have a wood splitter too.Nasty stuff to split by hand.Will follow a knot and hates to split straight. Could you mix it in with some good wood?
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cheyenne

Another thing about burning fresh dead standing... :'(....Once it gets cold out the moisture in the wood freezes & just makes it worse pull_smiley........Cheyenne
Home of the white buffalo

Bandmill Bandit

 only use dead standing pine for garden fence  and other rustic stuff for the yard at the demand of my wife. its the look more then any thing for her and I get to change it our when she get tired of it about every 2 or 3 years to do something different so it mostly ends up in the barbecue pit.
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woodmills1

standing dead trees, no limbs no bark = instant burn now firewood

fallen dead trees need to be dried they suck up ground moisture


for years back in Jersey I cut and burned hand to mouth week after week on standing dead

standing dead with soft outerwood needs to get inside or under cover quick, as the soft punky outer will suck up rain quickly
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SwampDonkey

Standing dead white pine will stand a very long time. I've seen fire killed pine standing with a whole new mature forest of spruce grown up around it.  That being said, I would have to agree that it will be a bit wet standing dead. It won't take white pine long to dry though with cut and split up, not like balsam fir, half of green fir weight is water. The sapwood won't be punky mush yet after a year I don't think. I've had to work around them when they fall in a thinning block and they seem pretty in tact. That being said it won't make good lumber if your looking for the bug free stainless appearance. But it'll be ample for a temporary lean to I can bet when you get into the heartwood.
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Austin 64

What is a good, reasonably priced, moisture reader?

Dean186

Quote from: Austin 64 on December 16, 2010, 07:48:08 PM
What is a good, reasonably priced, moisture reader?

After reading Doctorb's Seasoning Firewood Post and all of his moisture readings, I purchased my first Digital Moisture Meter.  

I purchased a MMD4E Digital Moisture Meter by General Tools for $38.95 from Amazon.

It is easy to use, durable, the readings are repeatable and I believe them to be accurate enough for firewood.  It has been a fun educational tool and I am glad I have it.

JJ

I have burned several dead standing trees.
They are not dry, even without bark or limbs.  They need to be split to dry.  Maybe it is diffrent in your neck of the woods. 
I think they also soak up water once the bark is gone.  I have tried dead trees with no bark but covered with fungus, and wood had digested look to it, and very little wood grain.  These need more time to dry out.

           JJ

bandmiller2

Boonville Dan,I burn pine mostly to get rid of it.Pine chunks can be hard to split by hand,if you have to, cut your chunks and stand on end.Take your chainsaw and make some cuts from the edge in a ways gives you a place to set the wedges so they won't pop out.Pine won't carry the mail in real cold weather but spring and fall its OK. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

stumper

I just burnt some.  Top burns well, bottom 8 feet would benift from drying.  It does not hold a fire as well as hardwood and you do use a lot more.  I tend to leave the dead trees that are not endangeering anything until winter, then cut it and burn it.  I do not want to tie up shed space fore a low heat wood, but I also do not want it to go to waste.  So I winter cut it and burn it.  I will mix in good wood as needed to keep the fire going strong over the time I need it.

Tom_Averwater

I burn mostly dead standing wood in my furnace,Red Elm, Black locust  & soft maple .After reading this post I checked all 3 kinds of wood with my moisture meter and it was 14 - 15 % for all 3. The wood had been cut within the last month .
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petefrom bearswamp

Burning white pine will keep you warm running back and forth from the wood pile to the stove with armloads.
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Al_Smith

It might sound crazy to those who have never been around northern oak but I've cut lumber out of stuff that had been down for over twenty years .

Now the bark and sap wood were gone   .Inside of all that was some of the nicest oak you could ever imagine . It was a wind fall and live when it got wind tossed because  the limbs were still on it .A dead one usually tosses the limbs before it goes over .

On that subject I often hear people worry about milling a long down log .Yes there will be a lot of loss but you'd be surprised at the amount of good stuff left .The drops are just high priced firewood .It all burns if nothing else .

Randy88

Cut some and try it is my recommendation, I burn whatever comes along, the good the bad and the ugly, if its wood it'll eventually burn, one form or another.    We burn some pretty lousy stuff to keep the timber cleaned up and to get rid of the dead trees.     By the time I get around to burning it, some of its been cut so long it has started to rot even after its split.    If your into the fine tuning of just how many btu's there are in one type of wood in a certain stage vs another I can't help any there, the lesser quality takes more wood than good hardwoods but by how much I couldn't tell you.   As for the comment of getting heat out of carrying it to the furnace that I'd agree with totally, soft wood burns faster than you can throw it in the furnace but it still gives off heat and if its what you have available then burn it up, what other options are there for it, just let it fall over and rot down?   

I was never a big believer in cutting good trees so I had the nice split wood to burn, we always harvested the worst trees that never would make good lumber logs and cut those out to eliminate them and make room for better saw log trees to grow and flourish but that's just me so take it for what its worth.

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