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Trying to buy USA made.

Started by Qweaver, December 08, 2010, 09:31:05 AM

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Qweaver

I'm making a real effort to buy American whenever I can.  I own chevy and jeep cars.  I check the labels and choose made in the USA when there is a choice...even if I have to pay a little more.  But it's getting harder to do.  The stickers on my truck say made in Canada.  That's OK...at least it's not China.
This morning I start putting together a barrel stove kit.  The box says, United States Stove Company, South Pittsburg, Tn.  But when I open the box the damper casting has CHINA in the casting.  Now maybe only the damper was made in China and the rest made here by American workers.  I hope so.  The company has a web site...I'm going to ask.  I hate it when a company tries to pass off foreign made goods as made here.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

northwoods1

These days the chinese are making one heck of a lot of the items we use but in particular a lot of the iron & steel items like your cast iron stove kit. I went & bought drums & rotors for my pickup truck the other day and couldn't believe how cheap they are, I mean the quality looked good but $60-70 is all they cost now that is cheaper than ever. Lots of auto parts are now made in china.  I try to by usa made too, try not to go in to walmart ever. I don't know what the answer is but the way things are going in this country I don't know how we will survive if all our manufacturing jobs go overseas. I don't like the idea of having to depend on any foreign entity for goods we need everyday that seems like not a very logical thing to do.

Tom

If we want to buy American, we need to put this country back in the hands of people who want to produce here.  The Nannycrats and oversealous environmentalist are the enemies of a producing America.

isawlogs

 I would like to buy only made in Canada, but its almost impossible to so, so I resigned to buing north american if at all possible. Even with the broden specs it gets hard to do.  >:(
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Tom

It stymies us to try to buy "locally" produced stuff.  I think we should be asking ourselves, every day, "why can't I find products made in my country?"

Then we need to identify who is at fault and do something about it.

scgargoyle

Are there any power tools made in the US anymore? All of the Milwaukee tools I've seen lately are coming out of China, even the expensive professional ones.
I hope my ship comes in before the dock rots!

Peter Drouin

We need a big inport tariff on all that comes into our country  that will level the field   8) 8) 8)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

jim king

QuoteWe need a big inport tariff on all that comes into our country  that will level the field  

There are to many free trade agreements being made for political trade offs that do not permit tarrifs.  They are the craziest things you have ever seen.

Here is an example. 

http://www.ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/peru-tpa

customsawyer

The United States of America, Inc. is the way I see things now. How many times have you said the pledge of allegiance and said and to the democracy for which I stand? 
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Cedarman

I sell cedar into Ky, Tn and Mo.  Those 3 states have huge amounts of cedar and plenty of mills.  Therefore, why don't they buy local?  Because the locals won't produce what my customers want.  At least that is what they tell me when I ask them.

I also want to buy American made products.  I will buy Mexican over Asian, I will buy Canadian too.
I check labels.

We Americans have been brainwashed that buying an item at its cheapest price is more important than anything else.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Shotgun

Quote from: customsawyer on December 08, 2010, 05:37:13 PM
The United States of America, Inc. is the way I see things now. How many times have you said the pledge of allegiance and said and to the democracy for witch I stand? 

I'd guess that I have been saying the pledge of allegiance about 30 years longer than you have, CS, but I don't think I've ever seen it presented just like that.   :)

Norm
Joined The Forestry Forum 5 days before 9/11.

pineywoods

Went looking for a new pair of boots today. Everything I could find was made in china. Came home empty handed, still looking.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Bandmill Bandit

Hi everybody

some body mentioned tariffs(read taxation)
irresponsible taxation is the very reason for the exodus for manufacturing jobs from Canada and the USA

Tariffs do not create a level playing field. They distort it worse for the country charging the tariffs as our products become less competitive in foreign markets.

If manufacturing companies received competitive advantage tax credit for every 10 jobs that they create to a point where they only paid 10% flat tax on gross revenue, don't you think they would be lining up to manufacture in North America?

There are several small countries that take that concept a step further and continue to reduce the taxes as the companies gross revenue increases down as low as 2.5% flat rate on total revenue. Many companies pass on this advantage to their employees in the from of tax free performance bonus payment.

Greed is very blinding issue in North America. Thanks to big government and Labour unions run-a-muc.
 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: pineywoods on December 08, 2010, 07:25:38 PM
Went looking for a new pair of boots today. Everything I could find was made in china. Came home empty handed, still looking.
Try Wesco in Oregon!  Made in USA and doubtless of the highest quality.   Start at about $375 a pair, from Bailey's.  :o
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

northwoods1

Quote from: pineywoods on December 08, 2010, 07:25:38 PM
Went looking for a new pair of boots today. Everything I could find was made in china. Came home empty handed, still looking.

Shoes have to be about the worst thing to try and find usa made. Wesco boots are nice that is what I wear in the woods in the summer I have the firefighter lace to toe boots. But @$450 per pair they aren't for everyone :-[ in fact they wouldn't have even been for me until I found a very slightly used pair on ebay 10 - 1/2" EE for 1/2 price new. They are nice though I mean you put those things on and it is impossible to turn and ankle you just know your foot is protected. REdwings are nice too, and made in usa, and much cheaper probably $125 for a good pair. I've had a lot of redwings over the years. There is still a old 80 year old man with a shoe shop in town near me that sells redwings. A guy that actually fixes shoes, and that is what I like to buy shoes that can be fixed not just thrown away like everythign else these days. When I stop there we have the same discussion as this thread is about :D

Qweaver

Quote from: Peter Drouin on December 08, 2010, 05:10:02 PM
We need a big inport tariff on all that comes into our country  that will level the field   8) 8) 8)
I agree with Bandit, big tariffs (taxes) are not the answer.  The problem is...there is no easy answer.  Our workers are expecting big wages for small skills in many cases.  Manufacturers can be more competitive in their pricing building in China paying half the wages of an American worker and with lower taxes or even government supported.  And we are willing to choose the lower priced foreign made products even tho' it kills our local industry. 
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Banjo picker

Q I don't know about where the stove was made, but there is a foundry in South Pittsburg Tn...I lived about 10 miles from there once up on a time ...The town is famous for making Lodge cook ware...If you are buying a skilet look for Lodge..I still have a friend that works there....they make a large variety of things....might make some stove parts when they can...I have a couple of grills that they made...very nice..but heavy for little fellers...Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

northwoods1

Quote from: Banjo picker on December 09, 2010, 08:42:01 AM
Q I don't know about where the stove was made, but there is a foundry in South Pittsburg Tn...I lived about 10 miles from there once up on a time ...The town is famous for making Lodge cook ware...If you are buying a skilet look for Lodge..I still have a friend that works there....they make a large variety of things....might make some stove parts when they can...I have a couple of grills that they made...very nice..but heavy for little fellers...Tim

You know, you mention that foundry and it makes me think about how for a lot of our manufacturers, i.e. some foundries, the enviromental restrictions in this country make it an un-level playing field when competing against countries like china. But it isn't really that in all cases our laws are too strict, its that there laws and regs aren't strict enough.

Reddog

Made in the USA doesn't even mean much any more. :( It could be made here but owned by a foreign corporation. So all of the gross profit leaves the US.

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: Reddog on December 09, 2010, 10:02:44 AM
Made in the USA doesn't even mean much any more. :( It could be made here but owned by a foreign corporation. So all of the gross profit leaves the US.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but yet again irresponsible TXATION is the issue here too. Just because the local company may be "foreign" owned doesn't mean it is not ultimately still owned by an a American or Canadian group. Most of the "elected" career political types ( they would like to think they are the ELECT  :D) have established organizations out side of the jurisdiction in which they reside so that they can carry on business locally without breaching conflict of interest regs. Its a game of meeting the home grown regs of foreign ownership and the tax treat regs of the head quarters domicile. At the end of the day the "settlor" of the organization has total control with no apparent or real ownership but saddled with the task of settling ALL affairs of the organization as per the Settlors Deed of Responsibilities" For this the Settlor receives remuneration in the form of stipends, performance bonuses, and expense re-reimbursement. This results in a drastically reduced tax burden in many cases and actually allows the the "Settlor" to expand business or open new operations that he would not be able to afford  if he were to domicile the organization in his region of chosen residence.

If north American governments would eliminate the CRA and the IRS and go to a flat no deductibles tax system, with tax advantage credits issued on the basis of economic impact in the local region and the country, these to countries would not be in deficit positions ever.

Well over 50% of tax revenue under current regulation is required to operate the tax system not including the payment of the elected Representatives and their staff. When you consider the cost of the collections operation there is very little left for the Government to use on running the country.

A flat tax system eliminates the need for these gargantuan departments and the huge cost of keeping them running. But then I am not sure what we would do with the 30 to 40% of the work force people that have been feeding at that trough for the last 60 plus years. They don't know what the word work means mostly through no fault of their own either.   
     

     
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Qweaver

It just gets complicated.  The people that invest in companies come from all over the world.  If I want to buy stock in a foreign company it's easy to do.  As an investor, I want my stock to make money and most investors are not really concerned about how that happens.  So if a business in China can make the product that I as an American business want to sell more cheaply, then I have very little choice but to buy from them if I want to be competitive.  So if workers here are not willing to work for the same wages as a worker in China...how can an American business produce and sell a product?  I'm not saying that I want us to start living at a much reduced standard of living.  I just don't see a way to fix our problem unless we can produce goods at a competitive price. 
My Aunt says "But we deserve better wages".  And I say "you only deserve what someone can afford to pay you and still make a profit."
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

KellyH

Ditto on the RedWings but over the last 20 years or so it seems they don't hold up as well as they used too.  Maybe my extra 50 lbs from 20 yrs old to 48 yrs old has something to do with the rate of wearing out!  lolzzz  :D  But they still don't seem as well made as years ago.  Carolina makes a good boot too but not sure if they are USA made or not.  ???
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is who you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."

Captain

In the history of our nation, we became what we are today based on the ideals of a free, capitalistic society.  Our nation has great resources, and in our history was a great workforce with a great work ethic and drive to succeed.  Some of us still have it.  However, to many in society the idea of hard work for an honest and fair compensation is now lost. 

It is inevitable that other peoples of the world will modernize and industrialize.  One hundred years ago, nearly every living essential and certainly most tools and other fixtures were produced within 500 miles of point-of-sale.  Today, they are produced on the other side of the globe.  Last weekend I went table saw shopping for a portable 10" table saw on a folding stand.  I really wanted a $600 Bosch saw, but instead reasoned for a $300 Porter Cable.  Not a one of them on display at Lowe's was built in the United States.  In many circumstances as pointed out, the consumer has no choice. 

Captain

Ianab

Just a thought from the other side of the world.

Here in NZ 100 years ago ALL manufactured goods came from the other side of the world. Mostly from England, which is about as far away as you can get. Ships returned with butter, wool and mutton which paid the bills.

Not much has changed. 90% of the manufactured products are still imported, just not from the UK or America so much.

But looking through my power tools the other day, Japanese (Makita), Swiss (Bosch), German (Stihl) although some is surprising. DeWalt made in England and Taiwan. A new heavy duty Makita electric hedge cutter is English which surprised me.

So for us international trade is vital, and restricted trade practices really bug us. We have to export to be able to import the stuff we need. Our exports are not subsidised, but we can produce cheese, butter, beef, lamb and timber cheaper than most other places because of the climate. So when another market taxes these things, often to protect local producers who are less effecient, it annoying. We need to sell that stuff, so we can buy cars, jet airliners, computers, chainsaws, plasma TVs, etc.

Problem for the US I guess is that you are now importing a lot more stuff, but exporting less? One situation I noticed a few years back was when one of NZs few bigger manufacturing companies (Fisher and Paykel Appliances) actually "outsourced" part of it's manufacturing to a new factory in the US. Basically to save the cost of the freight for bulky things like dish washers and ovens. So now you can buy a US made dishwasher, just it's a NZ design, from a NZ company.

But if it's economic for a NZ (or Japanese or German) company to set up manufacturing in the US, why aren't US companies doing it still?

Bottom line though, is that whether you are mostly self sufficient on food, energy and manufacturing, or rely prmarily on imports and exports, they have to balance, or you are digging yourself into a hole.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

jim king

I saw on CNN today that the US trade Deficit was down to $ 38,000,000,000 last month and the Chinese trade balance was down to $22,000,000,000.

They didnt say why but maybe things are turning around a little.

WildDog

Its no different down-under, my boy and I are just about to head out and check the yabby traps we have set. When we set them last night I pulled the label of 2 new ones "made in China" these traps are called "Opera House" named after the best known Aussie building on the banks of Sydney Harbour...........Maybe they should be named Great Wall, oh wait a minute thats the name of a vehicle they are flogging over here.

We have very little restrictions on OS investors buying property down here, we are seeing an alarming amount of quality rural land being bought up by foreign investors from China, the Aussie Govt has just decided to commission a study into how much has been sold already.
If you start feeling "Blue" ...breath    JD 5510 86hp 4WD loader Lucas 827, Pair of Husky's 372xp, 261 & Stihl 029

northwoods1

Quote from: WildDog on December 11, 2010, 03:37:09 PM


We have very little restrictions on OS investors buying property down here, we are seeing an alarming amount of quality rural land being bought up by foreign investors from China, the Aussie Govt has just decided to commission a study into how much has been sold already.

Hmmm... foreigners buying up quality rural land?  ??? I don't know what to think of that for sure... What the ramifications of that might amount to. I think my 1st question would be is why are they buying up the quality rural land, for what purpose? With all the new rich people in china they are probably just trying to find something to spend there money on I imagine :D


isawlogs

 
  To feed there country in a near futur .  ;)
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Bandmill Bandit

We had that happening in Western Canada starting in the early 70s. A lot of them (from europe) tried to be absentee land lords on large tracts of prime ag land.
didnt take em long to figure out that if your gona pay someone a high 5 digit wage plus bonuses for productivity that you will not see large profits if any at all. Many of the ones that did not sell out, moved here and are running the farms them selves and in most cases have become very good additions to the community. What we now have happening is Europeans selling dairy and poultry operations on a small property for very high $ and then coming here and buying large tracts of land for what we think are ridiculous prices and set up a new dairy and poultry that are quite often 2 or 3 times the size of the what they had in Europe and still have a lots of money left over. Lots of people don't like it but they are brining a competitive edge to the industry here because the high population density where they came from forces them to be much more aware of a efficiency, quality and appearance. Definitely not hurting the industry they get into in this country.
But so far we do not have Asians buying land here.       

Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Just Me

I have been trying to buy USA made products for many years, frusterating to say the least as you see one product after another move its manufacturing to China. I just bought a Pendleton shirt yesterdayl looked at the label, Indonesia.

I have a woodworking business, and trying to find modern tools at my business size level is impossible. There has been no innovation in woodworking tools here in fifty years, and American brands are just shells representing crap made in China. Most of my tool purchases in the last 15 years have been Italian, my next will probably be Austrian. They make what I want and they pay a living wage. I do not hate people from other countrys, and I do not begrudge them the opportunity to make a living. What I do hate is the basically slave labor conditions that some people work in and the companys that take advantage of this to make a profit. You will find no Chinese tools in my shop, although it is getting tough. I just bought a NOS Lion Trimmer, took me two years to find one, but I have the original, not a chinese copy from a company that stole the intellectual of an American company.

My brother and I designed and manufactured a tool for the automotive industry. Couldn't afford the pattent process, sold the tool through Eastwood Company, and did well for a while. As soon as it started to sell well a chinese company bought one, made a cheap copy, and our sales dropped to nothing, we quit production.

Why would anyone innovate on a small scale when there is no protection internationally of intellectual properties. This is killing us, and as I see it one of the key issues that need to be addressed. But our government is more interested in keeping the rest of the world happy, at our expense I might add, than they are in keeping us working.

I say keep our money here, stop trying to buy the rest of the worlds affection, invest in our future instead of using our tax dollars to strengthen our competition.

On a personal basis we can spend what dollars we are allowed to keep on products that are made here, or at least made in a country that allows a standard of living that is acceptable and gives its citizens the freedom to choose their own life path.

I'm ranting.... Sorry, I am very worried about my granddaughters future and get worked up sometimes.

Larry

KellyH

I was at HomeDepot the other day and I needed a couple 2x4's for a repair.  I had to look twice because the stamp on the wood read "Sweden".  I asked the guy at the store about it and he just shrugged his shoulders and said "I guess".  This made no sense to me at all.  I can't figure how it can be that lumber can come from so far away and make any profit. ::)
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is who you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Qweaver on December 08, 2010, 09:31:05 AM
The box says, United States Stove Company, South Pittsburg, Tn.  But when I open the box the damper casting has CHINA in the casting. 

I think China made a trillion of those dampers, every store has the same Chinese damper and the rod that goes through the pipe and through the loop holes in the damper is too soft, like aluminum. They were iron back in the day. Frustrating as all get out those dampers now.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on December 11, 2010, 10:03:38 PM
so far we do not have Asians buying land here.       

Ask Samuel who owns his pulp mill. ;)

The reason those Europeans can do what they do is they have huge farm subsidies and marketing agencies that inflate their true capital worth. Your government is like ours, we give handouts to supplement the purchase of these farms, it's not all out of pocket. And who knows if the old country isn't cutting them a cheque just to reduce the number of producers, be it chickens, milk, beef or donkeys. ;) One such program over here is the "New Entrant Program". Come on over, here's a $1M to stuff in your pocket. :D

I can take you for a drive around the country and show you old farms many recent European immigrants acquired, farmed a goat for 3 or 4 years and either went back home, drive truck or got a government job. One fellow I know makes those travel maps, and the weeds and alders are growing up around his door. Sometimes there is a false impression created in someone's mind, more of a myth, that soon gets accepted as truth by many of the population. Makes good book writing sometimes, if you like fiction. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Oh, and about them boots. The price isn't cheaper for you and me when they make them in China, it's still a $300 boot around here. What it's about is profits.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

JIM GORMLEY

I dont think Redwings are made in the USAanymore
My bad, Redwing boots are but shoes are not
I live with fear and danger. On the weekends,I leave her and go wild boar hunting.

WH_Conley

I was in the boot store a couple of years ago trying to buy American made boots, couldn't find any. I spotted some Carhart boots, asked the salesman about them, they always bragged that their clothes were Union made. He replied that they were made by Redwing in one of their Chinese plants. ::)
Bill

SwampDonkey

Yeah and look at the difference in price of Dickies work units in Walmart compared to farmer stores. About half at Walmart, all made in China at either place. It would cost me about $60  for a suit of it here at a men's clothing shop in either NB or Maine, I've checked. $32 in Walmart in Maine. The only Canada made I see is at the saw shop, "Big Bills" still about $60 but made here at least so you don't feel so bad. They also make Wool pants i can't buy around here, but out west Bill Bill's wool pants are on department store shelves. I guess we are a warmer climate here now than 70 years ago. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Jasperfield

Arguably, the best boots in the world are made here, in the U.S., in Spokane, WA. by several privately held companies. Not the smallest of which is Whites Boot Company. Another is Nick's boots.

They are not cheap and do not appear or wear as cheap. But, they are the best. One pair will outlast several pairs of mid-level boots.

Peter Drouin

Hi all,  when you go into the big box stores and you see lumber, windows and doors that say made in Africa, Sweden or other places in the world, I've been told that the logs are being bought on the eastern shore of USA loaded on a ship from whatever country.  They cut, klin dry, and make the doors and windows and lumber out past the 200 mile limit.  The wood waste runs the ship and it makes a big loop, comes back to our shores and fills our big box stores with the wood and windows and such.  Look closely on some of the products. The factories are on the ocean. That's how they can sell things so cheap. Pete
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Ironmower

My ex brother-in-law swore by Mason boots. If i'm not mistaken they're still made in Wisconsin.
WM lt35 hd 950 JD

fishpharmer

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
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WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

scgargoyle

Part of the problem is how slanted the playing field is. I work for a company that injection molds plastic goods. We can buy finished goods from China cheaper than we can buy the raw material here in the states. In other words, we could buy widgets from China, and re-grind the material and save money! Since plastic is a petroleum product, I don't see how they can do that, except for that they aren't following any safety or environmental rules, and the government is paying subsidies. Why would the government do that? To dominate world trade to the point of eliminating the competition. Once everyone else gives up on manufacturing, they can charge whatever they want. Not coincidentally, they will also be able to do whatever they want militarily. Everyone here will be too busy playing with their electronic gadgets to even notice.
I hope my ship comes in before the dock rots!

Brad_bb

Lot of interesting discussion in this thread.  My 2 cents

Taxation, over regulation, and litigation in this country now stifles our productivity.  A non level playing field via our own aforementioned problems and foreign dumping and subsidies hinder play.

I think it's dangerous for our country that so much manufacturing capability has been lost.  Once the skills and knowledge is gone, it's hard to get it back and can in some cases endanger our nations security.

We will always be in a global economy.  It makes sense that some places will be able to do some things more economically even with most things being equal.  But the playing field is too uneven at this point I think.

I worked in power tools.  Everyone went to China starting with Black and Decker and the last to go was Bosch.  While black and Decker figured out China was not the ultimate panacea, and began moving a bunch of it's operations back this way (to Mexico), Bosch was just starting to go to China and not learning from B&D.  While there is still such disparity in wages, power tools will scarcely come back to the US. 

One mans greed is a another mans Capitalism.  It's an issue of how you view these words.  If they are synonymous to you, then I don't think you believe in the ideals that build the USA.  I don't believe they are synonymous, but they are often used that way in modern media and by the current president.  The world doesn't function without profit and capitalism.  Who is to be the one decide what is profit and what is being greedy.  I'm am a believer in what the market is willing to pay.  That is not greed.  We don't have true free market capitalism in the US.  We have regulated  capitalism.  Some regulation is necessary, but over-regulation is damaging.  I'm just saying that you must be very careful about the use of Greed.  It's been overused to push certain agendas and sway emotion.

I'm just starting a very interesting book about the Fairtax.  People often pre-judge the fairtax because of it's name, that it automatically illicits skepticism.  It's a very interesting concept of simplifying our tax system and eliminating a vast portion of the IRS by having only a tax on consumption and eliminating all other taxes.  Of course there are a lot of skeptical questions thrown right up against this, but there seem to be answers to all of them.  There are a couple of books by Neil Bortz on the Fairtax.  Consider having a read.  I am now.  Something like this could help our economy overall and remove a lot of the corrupt power from our politicians(as it pertains to spending out money).
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

beenthere

I am thinking getting rid of EPA would be the most favorable thing we could do for us and the world. They continue to dream up new mandates (and now Congress lets the Pres. tell them to make more) that just continue to shoot ourselves in the foot.

EPA has driven most of WI factories and companies out with their regulations. Just happens that these companies used to hire people to work, but that isn't happening anymore. Surprise! Surprise! (as I think Gomer Pile used to say)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Larry

Quote from: beenthere on December 26, 2010, 12:36:54 PM
I am thinking getting rid of EPA would be the most favorable thing we could do for us and the world.

Do you think the EPA is run by the Chinese? >:(

It takes more time and money to write an environmental impact statement for a new factory in the US than building the factory in China.  I think that was one reason the furniture and textile factories left.  They couldn't be competitive in a 100 year old plant yet at the same time they couldn't modernize at reasonable cost.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

IMERC

Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish.... Here fishy fishy....

IMERC

Quote from: pineywoods on December 08, 2010, 07:25:38 PM
Went looking for a new pair of boots today. Everything I could find was made in china. Came home empty handed, still looking.

Chippewas
they have made in America..
just bought some...
Frye is still here...

and there are these...

http://www.madeinusa.org/nav.cgi?boolean=AND&case=Insensitive&start=0&group=20&terms=boots&x=17&y=7

http://www.constructiongear.com/made-in-usa-work-boots.html

http://www.american-made-boots.com/

http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/men.html

Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish.... Here fishy fishy....

Brucer

Quote from: scgargoyle on December 26, 2010, 08:45:06 AM
... I work for a company that injection molds plastic goods. We can buy finished goods from China cheaper than we can buy the raw material here in the states. In other words, we could buy widgets from China, and re-grind the material and save money! Since plastic is a petroleum product, I don't see how they can do that ...

China buys huge quantities of recycled plastic from overseas (i.e., North America & Europe). It gets shipped in the containers that came here full of consumer goods, so the shipping costs are minimal. Sorting is done by hand in China, often at the cottage industry level.

Because the China can sort and process the recycled plastic at very low cost, they can pay more for the raw material than North American recycling companies.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

coldnorth

This is a hot topic.

Shoes. - I use Bellevilleshoe.com

Gotta say my piece.   We did this to ourselves.  Buying by price. (cheaper is better)
We can fix it ourselves.   If it says "made in China" put it back on the shelf.  Force retailers to find quality merchandise (not made in China).  I am convinced that we don't need Gov't taxes, tariffs. etc.  They have already messed stuff up enough!  If 60% of the population quits buying China Crap, the pedulum will start to swing back.  When I walk into a shoe store, first thing is "do you have any quality, USA made shoes"  if not, I leave.

Just my $0.02, or is it yuan now?
If you want something done correctly, you have to do it yourself.

IMERC

had/have a problem with an older 1617 router motor....
serial # leans towards it being a bad switch...
new switch is on the way....

in the course of the conversation with the tech I find that Bosch has closed their Chinese plant(s) and have pulled out of China...
the manufacturing is being brought back here to America...

seems Bosch couldn't have it their way with the Chinese, declared enough is enough and ended up telling the Chinese to "have a nice day"... appears somebody is listening to those who vote with their dollars....

is this a ray of sunshine....
I hope so...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish.... Here fishy fishy....

Tom

Now, if they just don't take it back to Germany,

sprucebunny

I found USA made Christmas paper !

I really hope the Bosch story is true and more tool makers come back to the US.
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

IMERC

Quote from: sprucebunny on January 04, 2011, 09:03:41 PM


I really hope the Bosch story is true and more tool makers come back to the US.


you and me both....
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish.... Here fishy fishy....

Brucer

The higher the fuel prices go, the more manufacturing we'll see come back home.

Here's an interesting paradox. The new super-container ships spend a much higher percentage of time at sea. This means it's more economical if they can sail faster. Sailing faster means they use a lot more fuel per nautical mile. So fuel costs make up a much larger portion of the total shipping costs.

Bottom line, making stuff overseas is a lot more sensitive to fuel price today than it was back when all the manufacturing started to shift overseas.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

redbeard

I work in the trades on a military Base and we maintain repair replace the buildings and hangers, Government has a strict policy to use USA parts, Our vendors sometimes have to work extra hard finding USA parts and cost is higher in some cases but quality is night and day.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

florida

American manufacturers who move overseas are doing exactly the same thing we all are. We're trying to reduce our labor costs and overhead costs and make a larger profit.
If we were really interested in American manufacturing jobs we'd all run our businesses differently. I'm a contractor so  I'd put up my screw guns, nail guns and electric tools and go back to hand nailing, screwing and making all my cuts with a hand saw. You sawyers would sharpen your axes, junk your Wood Mizers and dig a hole for a pit saw. We'd both create a lot more jobs that way but of course making money would be a lot harder and prices to our customers would go way up. No one would be better off.

Here's a link to a short video about Wilson footballs. Take 5 minutes and watch it since it aptly demonstrates an American manufacturing job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8kZP4dRe3w

While I admire the workers in this video I can't even imagine spending 35 years of my life standing in a 4 square foot area and doing the same job 8 hours a day but that's the reality of a manufacturing job. Who wants this for their children?

But, the USA is still the 900 pound manufacturing gorilla of the world. We produce 19% of the entire world's manufacturing output while China and Japan each produce about 15%. But every year the factories get more productive with fewer workers just like you and I do.  Take a look at this article about world manufacturing.

http://mungowitzend.blogspot.com/2011/01/trade-is-good.html

And finally, read this last article about what trade restrictions and tariffs would do us all.

http://blogs.forbes.com/beltway/2011/01/06/embracing-more-of-trades-virtues/?boxes=financechannelforbes

General contractor and carpenter for 50 years.
Retired now!

SwampDonkey

Quote from: scgargoyle on December 08, 2010, 04:39:00 PM
Are there any power tools made in the US anymore? All of the Milwaukee tools I've seen lately are coming out of China, even the expensive professional ones.

My new Makita orbital sander was made in USA.
My new Stihl rain pants were made in Canada
My new Stihl Mix oil was made in Canada /w fuel stabilizer
My Viking Caulk boots were made in Canada

8)

Anything highly plasticized is made in China.

Apparently now-a-days, a mega huge consumption of petroleum is the plastics industry. At one time a few decades ago, the US was a net exporter of petroleum. Many of the chemicals in the plastics have never had to be proven safe. Many countries now reverse onus, the industry has to prove they are safe, consumers don't have to prove they aren't. 8)

I hate plastic!! Use paper instead it is recyclable, renewable and biodegradable. Plastic doesn't go away. Not all plastic labeled with the recycling swirl is recyclable, it's an industry scam.

At Tim Horton's they have a sorting area at the trash receptical, when they collect the trash all the sorted stuff is bound in one big bag and tossed in the dumpster. Corporate gimmick.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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