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I went logging!

Started by sawdust, December 05, 2010, 08:48:57 PM

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sawdust


I have a couple days off and went logging with my friend. I am not a logger though I have cut down lots of trees. Brought the GPS from work, N 52 54 35.0  W 115 06 33.2 . Did not take any pictures though, they were trees. 85 foot spruce about 24 to 30 inches above the flair at the bottom. Six degrees F most of the day and only five inches of snow on the ground. Walking over all the tree trash gets tiresome though.

I brought my Makita 7901 which is wonderful for falling but WAY to big for limbing. I am a skinny dude and tonight my arms can barely reach the keyboard. Next time I am also going to bring my little Stihl for the branches.

I have a question, revealing my ignorance! I plot out a couple escape paths, once I can see the tree is falling in the intended direction I run away. Bruce insists this is wrong and that I should back away looking up to watch for falling crap. Those are two options, is there a better safer way?

A very different way than I normally spend my time. I had a great day

When I was building my house I was always thinking that lumber was horribly expensive. I have now logged, sawn, planed, piled.... I think store bought lumber is cheap!
Sawdust.


comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable.

bill m

Your escape paths should be cleared before you start cutting the tree. When you drop the tree don't walk backwards, to easy to trip and fall. Walk forward looking back over your shoulder until you are a safe distance away and the tree is on the ground. Then wait for any trees that the one you felled brushed against to stop moving and look for any broken / hung up limbs. If there are any unsafe broken limbs over head winch the tree to a safe location before limbing. Have fun and be safe.
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Maine372

ever suprised a deer? what do they do? 3-4 bounds then turn around to assess the danger. thats exactly what i do. once the tree is moving i take 3-4 quick steps, putting another tree between me and the one falling if possible. then i turn around and see whats happening and adjust accordingly.

i cant run looking backwards, and i cant run backwards. i think the statistic they told us in my felling training was that 90% of felling injuries happen within 7ft of the stump. so my aim is to get outside that 7ft radius, thats three or four steps.


isawlogs

 Looking up should be done before you cut the tree, you should look for and locate any dried/dead limbs and any that are hanging from any trees including the one you are about to fall. You escape route then should be planned according to what you see beforeahnd .  ;)
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

craigc

Your friend sounds like he went through the Game of Logging if he did this is the way that is taught.  If a escape route is properly planned there will be nothing to trip over.  Almost all dangers come from above.
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beenthere

craigc

Not taught that way in my GOL.  Escape path wasn't very long, if I remember correctly.
Even if I cleared a path with nothing to trip over, I'd find something. :)

When the tree starts to fall, make note of which direction it is falling. Then move away (I like Maine372 description :) ) and turn to look back (up as well, to see if the falling tree is dragging down any other trees/limbs with it that can spring back and get you).  I've had more dangerous surprises fall out of the trees that were not cut than any other surprises when falling a tree.

But it is hard to come up with one set of rules that will cover every situation. Just need to assess each one as best you can, and execute the plan. 

south central Wisconsin
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Ianab

On flat clear ground, maybe that's OK. But most trees I cut are on the side of a hill, with old cow tracks, roots, 6ft banks and assorted man-traps. My strategy is that if something does come down with the tree, I'm not there any more. Makes planning and clearing your escape path even more important.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Bobus2003

I don't run away from a tree,  I watch where its falling take a step or two back from the stump and watch it fall and for other falling stuff..

jimparamedic

Also move in a route that is 90 degrees to the falling tree or as close as possible to avoid kick back I've had several close calls had a 24" oak brush my shoulder once after that I took the rest of the day off and cleaned my shorts

thecfarm

Six degrees is cold for me to be outside.I don't have to be outside when it's cold like that,so I just stay inside. My Father always planned an escape route and cleared one too.Be it small bushes or trees or wood sticking up in the air or limbs from another tree. This was an angle escape route too.He took time at every tree.We would walk quickly from the tree falling and than wait for everything to quite down and look up to see if everything looked OK. Always kept an eye on me when I was young. This was long before GOL. He might of never wore a hard hat or chaps,but did know how to cut down a tree safely.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

John Mc

I pick and escape path, and clear it. If there is a good tree along the path to put between myself and the stump, so much the better. I generally look to go at about a 45˚ angle back away from the direction of fall (not 90˚, and not straight back), and try to get at least 15 feet between me and the stump. Often, that has to be adjusted a bit depending on terrain or major obstacles.

I do NOT back away. Being sure of your footing and putting some distance between you and the stump is more important than looking up to see what's going on, IMO. I cut in rocky, hilly terrain, so even with clearing the escape path, footing is unpredictable. Besides, if something unexpected is falling, I'd rather have it hit the top of my helmet than smack me in the face as I looked up to gawk at it.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Ed_K

I agree with John MC 100% + the bigger the tree to hide behind the better.You have to make it a point to NOT watch a tree fall,thats always when something happens.You can see the damage after all is quiet for a min or two.I had a hard time teaching myself to walk away quickly and not watch.Pine is the worst for slinging branches far from the stump.
Ed K

Quebecnewf

Run and run hard I say of course this is sometimes tricky carrying a chainsaw and sinking to your knees with snowshoes on.

Plan your out and take your time. Time in the woods is the best time so why rush to be finished

Quebecnewf

sawdust

Thank you all. I would rather learn from your experience than try to survive my own! I like running away 20 steps and then watching it fall, guess I will have to adjust that. I always make my escapes away from the direction of fall at a 45 aware that trees can jump back. I have never seen one do it yet though I did have one do the barbarchair stunt once. I got my saw stuck and walked away to get another, it popped when I was 100 feet away. scary.
comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable.

John Mc

Nothing wrong with turning around to watch after you're a safe distance away.

One thing I forgot to mention: I shut off the saw, or at least hit the chain brake lever as I'm standing up getting ready to move away. That way, if I do trip or catch the saw on some brush as I move away from the tree, there is less chance I've got a spinning chain to worry about.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

paul case

Quote from: Quebecnewf on December 07, 2010, 06:50:42 PM
Run and run hard I say of course this is sometimes tricky carrying a chainsaw and sinking to your knees with snowshoes on.
Quebecnewf

i dont log much when there is snow on. can you see anything with the snow falling from the tree? so it would be double dangerous being hard to get away and hard to see when and where its falling? pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
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pc

John Mc

Quote from: paul case on December 08, 2010, 08:54:03 AM
i dont log much when there is snow on.

A lot of folks around here will only allow logging on their land when the ground is frozen. Less chance of soil compaction and rutting or other damage to root systems.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Skiddah

What hasn't been addressed here, and what will help you determine how far to move away from the stump, is a clear felling path.  What do you have for obstructions in the general path you have decided to fall your tree in?  Do you have other trees that are going to be too close and might cause the tree to become hung up?  Are there large rocks or stumps that might cause the log to jump up, roll to one side, or crack?  Are there smaller trees that might become spring poles once the larger tree crushes them?  You need to devise a felling plan for every single tree that you are going to drop.  This doesn't mean sitting there filling out paperwork and making diagrams, but you need to have a clear idea in your head of what is going to take place.  There is a million variables out there and even the best of us cannot forsee all of them.  But with taking the time to evaluate the situation, you should be able to compensate for the vast majority of those variables.
That being said, the retreat path is designed to protect you from the ones you can't forsee.  Getting another tree between you and the falling tree is a good idea to some extent, unless that tree then becomes a hazard in itself.  I'd hate to be standing underneath a pine for cover when the tree I was felling rubbed it, showering me in branches.  Maybe the top might bust out of it also and come crashing down with deadly results.  That's a factor that should have been addressed in the cutting plan.  I use the bore cutting technique and leave a strap of release wood on the back of the stump.  That means when I cut that wood, I know the tree is going to go at that moment if I've correctly factored in lean, wind, using my wedges if necessary, etc.  I find that people who advise running on the retreat, simply notch the trees and cut them from the back.  This, TO ME PERSONALLY, is dangerous.  I know there'll be hundreds of anecdotes about how notching and cutting from the back is perfectly safe, and that may be so, but to me bore cutting is the safest method.  Workman's Compensation and the Certified Logging Professional Program here in Maine agrees with me fully.
As for myself, since I know when the tree is going to start it's descent, I engage my chainbrake or shut off my saw, and move with my back to the falling tree, a distance of four to five paces away depending on terrain, then turn to watch the fall if the tree isn't already down.  I chose not to watch the tree and move backwards, because the speed in which something drops out of the sky prevents me from reacting quick enough.  I plan on never getting hit, but should that happen, knock on wood, I'd much rather be pegged in the back on my retreat then have it come down across the vital area of my face, neck, and chest.

tycoon139977

you shuld also make sure the top dint bust out and is now falling at you, and like they said 45 degrees is the angle you want to run at to avoid kickback, jumping the stump or roll off, also if it barber chairs, they will roll off the side witch is why you do want to run 90 degrees to the tree
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tlandrum

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Ed_K

 Practicing GoL has helped me stay alive.
Ed K

bill m

tlandrum, Why do you think gol sucks?
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Bobus2003

What is the GoL exactly? If ya ask me the name isn't very smart, as for logging isn't a Game.. I also believ its a east coast thing, cause we don't have anything of its sort here.. Only a few Classes for felling for the Forest Service.. And most of thats just for Wildland firefighters

thecfarm

GOL teaches you how to maintain your saw all the way to maintaining your land.Meaning really everything you need to know to cut wood safely.And to get the most out of every tree you cut. Teaches you how to look at each tree and fell it the best ways,how to cut spring poles.As I heard one student say,"We talk the tree down"
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

bill m

Quote from: Bobus2003 on March 27, 2011, 05:20:46 PM
What is the GoL exactly? If ya ask me the name isn't very smart, as for logging isn't a Game.. I also believ its a east coast thing, cause we don't have anything of its sort here.. Only a few Classes for felling for the Forest Service.. And most of thats just for Wildland firefighters
They call it the Game of Logging to help create competition among the participants. Makes them pay attention better and hopefully come away from the class having learned something, not just a piece of paper saying they where there.
I worked a brush fire along side a wildland firefighter who had the forest service chainsaw training. I almost fell asleep watching him try to fell a 12 inch. soft maple with the lean. Maybe it was just him and not his training.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Mark K

I thought when I signed up for the GOL it was going to be a waste of time. I already have been falling trees for years. I was dead wrong. It taught me new methods of falling trees along with dealing with hazard trees. Also teachs how to be more productive in the woods and on the landing. I went through the first three levels and am taking the fourth this year to keep my credits going for my certification. About the best money and time I've ever spent.
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Ianab

Random thought on why it's the "Game" of logging.

A game suggest that you train to get better, learn new techniques, listen to the coach etc.

Many people put a LOT more thought and learning into their sport or game than their "work". Work , you turn up in the morning, do what you need to do and go home at 5.

But a Game?

You sit up late at night on the net learning about the latest strategy and equipment.
You pay money for an instructor to show you better technique and strategy.
You know there are risks and plan to avoid them as much as possible.
You TRY and do it better.

Call it the "Job of Logging" and how much enthusiasm would you have for it?

As to if it applies to YOU? Maybe if you are cutting 4ft softwood on the side of a Mt, and the course concentrates on 18" hardwood, then a lot of it may not apply. Still useful if you do have an 18" leaning hardwood tree standing in the way of course, and knowing about spring-poles is important no matter who you are. Maybe you need a version more tailored to the local conditions?  A bit like our local OSH approved courses. They go into bore cutting and dropping leaning trees up to 2 X your bar length in the standard "Farmer" courses simply because that's the sort of tree the locals are going to try and cut. If they are going to try and do it, at least show them the safest way.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

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