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Home-made Forwarder?

Started by Bobus2003, December 04, 2010, 01:05:11 PM

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Bobus2003

I've been browsing around and found what my dad and i think could be kinda cool idea.. I have found a Early-mid 80's JD 640D JD Skidder.. Doesn't have the Grapple or the winch on it.. Then i found a 1988ish Rottne Forwarder on the web, thats being sold and parts or project.. The Unit is Split now (in the pics) but says it comes with a loader..

Think it would be possible to Convert the Rear section to have a hitch that could be be hooked to the Skidder? Then Mount the Loader on the Rear of the Skidder. Somehow it would be nice if you could get hydralics to the Rear to power the axles.. Thus kinda of a Home built Forwarder.. When not being used as a forwarder you could unhook the Trailer and use the Skidder itself as a all terrain loader and bunch wood or slash..

How much Hydraulic power does it take to run the rear axles of a forwarder? Would the skidder be up too it in stock form or would it need pump up-grades?

Only PITA i can see would be turning tis beast in the woods, being it would have two articulation points..

Prolly not something that will happen due to i'd have more $$ into the build than what i can buy a older used forwarder for, but it was a neat i dea and thought i'd share and see what others thought/think of the idea.

Discuss.. Opinions... Thoughts...

Mark K

Local college up here has a set-up similar to what your talking about. They took a JD 540 G3 cable and made a hitch on the back to pull a Metavic trailer. Loader is on the trailer and from what I can see, it is plumbed to the skidder. I drive by it on my way to my site so I'll take a closer look next week.
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CX3

Heres what were gonna do.  I am looking for a logging dray with a loader and hydraulic power pack.  I will build a hitch and just pull it with the skidder.  You could unhook the dray and skid a load of logs to it then pull the trailer out the woods.  I think this would work great where skidding is a bit far and a guy doesnt want to spend a bunch on a forwarder.
John 3:16
You Better Believe It!

Bobus2003

I got a 16' trailer that i pull with my 440, and load with a Skid Steer or Processor, then pull it too the Deck and unload with Skidsteer or Processor.. Works nice.. Just wish i had a loader on the trailer so i could have a single machine instead of two

Maine372

couldnt you just pull the trailer and not drive the axles? the skidder will have the power to pull it. i think you may run into issues because the skidder is shaft drive and the forwarder hydrostatic.

it would be a beast in the woods but you could build loop trails so you dont have to turn around. i think the loader on the skidder frame would be a fun setup. i bet you could find lots of uses for it. i wonder if you could set it behind a fairlead so you would still have a cable skidder is you needed it.

snowstorm

used to be a few around here a trailer with a jd loader on it pulled with a skidder. that 640 will have closed center hydrs. so keep that in mind when looking for a loader for it. why not lenghten the frame add loader and bunks? kinda like the fabtechs were.

SwampDonkey



This skidder has a shortwood processor mounted on behind and loader. The loader is also used when a log trailer is hitched to the rear.

Something like this in mind?
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Maine372

swampdonkey, is that the one that was written up in timberline?

and is that a 110 or a G model on in the background?

SwampDonkey

You mean the loader. I can't remember and never gave it much attention.

Does Timberline do write-ups about operators in the Maritimes? The owner has been in a couple publications with his operations because he's a spokesman for woodlot owners and small scale logging. He's the president of our Federation of Woodlot Owners. This was on a town lot he was cutting and I was over seeing.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

treefarmer87

it looks like my old loader, i think its a 110
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1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
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SwampDonkey

The picture is 10 years old now.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Maine372

i cant find the article now. but i was looking up info on C4 treefarmers and came accross this article about a guy in canada who hooked up a c4 with the controls backwards to run a processor and trailer. i think he was in a spruce plantation when the article was done.

240b

look at Welte.de a german company or google log lift skidder crane  the rig your talking about is common in europe. 

Bobus2003

Quote from: Maine372 on December 04, 2010, 03:48:12 PM
couldnt you just pull the trailer and not drive the axles? the skidder will have the power to pull it. i think you may run into issues because the skidder is shaft drive and the forwarder hydrostatic.

it would be a beast in the woods but you could build loop trails so you dont have to turn around. i think the loader on the skidder frame would be a fun setup. i bet you could find lots of uses for it. i wonder if you could set it behind a fairlead so you would still have a cable skidder is you needed it.

Could but i figure the extra help from the Trailer would be handy, mostly when loaded on hills.

Quote from: SwampDonkey on December 04, 2010, 04:06:57 PM


This skidder has a shortwood processor mounted on behind and loader. The loader is also used when a log trailer is hitched to the rear.

Something like this in mind?

A setup similiar to that for the loader, then have the Trailer attached to the skidder.. If i just wanted the skidder/loader it couldbe used for bunching or prolly a million other things

Jamie_C

If you plan on using the back half of a forwarder for just a trailer you are going to have a massively heavy trailer to drag around the woods. Depending on how large the old Rottne is the back half alone could weigh about 10,000 lbs. Thats a lot of dead weight to drag around.

The Rottne loaders are good loaders but are going to be pretty heavy on the back of a skidder running around the woods, it could get tricky not flipping the skidder over while running the loader.

The next issue is the way the older Rottne's were wired for the joysticks ... if it has the catskull type joysticks with the circuit boards then you will have nothing but nightmares trying to keep them running off of your old skidder. The joysticks for those older machines aren't made anymore and are currently selling for $3200 each plus each circuit board is about $800 and there are 12 or 14 of them in the machine ... any little bit of moisture on those cards and your goose is cooked.

I would find something like a 10 or 12 ton forestry trailer for behind large tractors ... will save you a lot of headaches and money.

SwampDonkey

He takes the processor off, if I recall, when using the machine as a forwarder.

Personally, the processor is no faster than a chain saw operator from what I seen. Just use the loader and the trailer. It's easier on the cutter I suppose when his gut has a big over hang, using that processor, but I never saw any production gain in his operation. I never said anything to him, but I felt like grabbing the saw and getting the job done sometimes. :D

Yeah what Jamie said, I wouldn't fart around with using forwarder parts.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

thecfarm

Is this for your own use? If so,could you find a loader that could be mounted on the roof and lengthen just the top of the skidder a little,not the body. Probaly a big load of 16 footers would be impossible.Would not be able to haul a big amount like the trailer set up. I play around some with a trailer behind my tractor for hauling out 4 foot wood at times.It's a bother to get at some of the wood.Have to cut new roads to get to the wood.Kinda hard to back up a trailer in the woods with the rocks and the uneven ground I have. Just about as easy to twitch it out to a landing and than saw it up into 4 foot lengths.
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northwoods1

Quote from: SwampDonkey on December 05, 2010, 05:33:34 AM
He takes the processor off, if I recall, when using the machine as a forwarder.

Personally, the processor is no faster than a chain saw operator from what I seen. Just use the loader and the trailer. It's easier on the cutter I suppose when his gut has a big over hang, using that processor, but I never saw any production gain in his operation. I never said anything to him, but I felt like grabbing the saw and getting the job done sometimes. :D

Yeah what Jamie said, I wouldn't fart around with using forwarder parts.

They say necessity is the mother of invention, and it is thinking like what is going on in this thread that produced the types of technological advancements we see today in the woods, chainsaws, hydraulic loaders, processors etc :) but a person has to be careful to not try and recreate the wheel,,, that forwarder arrangement you show swamp donkey is interesting but in the whole when you figure how long it took screwing around fabricating and building that thing & money, in the end it isn't a solution to any type of problem it is just more of a problem in itself. The whole setup looks and sounds good on paper, one machine to do it all but the reality of it is different a guy could go broke trying to engineer something like that unless they simply had nothing better and money to throw away.

I always thought just have a couple machines. One a cable skidder to skid to the landing. Two a little cat with a dray which primarily would stay on the landing to sort and deck with, but it could go in the woods by itself. With the cat you could build some roads and landings also a person can't do so much of that with just a skidder. Or,,, just have one machine... a forwarder and not try to figure out how to attach a dray to a cable machine.

One question for the guys who are thinking about the dray on a treelenght skidder, how much of what you cut could you skid with a forwarder? In other words how much do you really need the cable machine? I have both and personally, I want to be in the forwarder as much as possible. I only use the cable machine to pull wood off the hills far enough to buck and pick up with the forwarder anyway. If I had to choose between the two I would only have a forwarder. If I didn't want a cable skidder I would have an arch and winch on a little cat just to use if I can't reach some wood with the forwarder.

Bobus2003

Quote from: Jamie_C on December 05, 2010, 05:25:23 AM
If you plan on using the back half of a forwarder for just a trailer you are going to have a massively heavy trailer to drag around the woods. Depending on how large the old Rottne is the back half alone could weigh about 10,000 lbs. Thats a lot of dead weight to drag around.

The Rottne loaders are good loaders but are going to be pretty heavy on the back of a skidder running around the woods, it could get tricky not flipping the skidder over while running the loader.

The next issue is the way the older Rottne's were wired for the joysticks ... if it has the catskull type joysticks with the circuit boards then you will have nothing but nightmares trying to keep them running off of your old skidder. The joysticks for those older machines aren't made anymore and are currently selling for $3200 each plus each circuit board is about $800 and there are 12 or 14 of them in the machine ... any little bit of moisture on those cards and your goose is cooked.

I would find something like a 10 or 12 ton forestry trailer for behind large tractors ... will save you a lot of headaches and money.

Yeah i understand that part.. But thats why I thought if you could make the rear axles of the Forwarder turn it would assist the skidder making the weight not as much of an issue. And for the amount of money one would have to put into this machine i could buy a Manufactured Forwarder.. I mean 15K for the Forwarder, and 12K for the Skidder.. Puts me in that price range of a small older Forwarder, plus no head-aches of trying to fab it all up.. I just thought it would be a cool idea and wanted everyones thoughts


Autocar

I went to a sawmill auction probably thirty years ago and the fellow had taken a road grader and mounted a 110 prentice on it and put log bunks on it and forwarded logs to the road when it was to wet to get a truck back to the woods
Bill

Jamie_C

Quote from: Bobus2003 on December 05, 2010, 12:41:52 PM
Quote from: Jamie_C on December 05, 2010, 05:25:23 AM
If you plan on using the back half of a forwarder for just a trailer you are going to have a massively heavy trailer to drag around the woods. Depending on how large the old Rottne is the back half alone could weigh about 10,000 lbs. Thats a lot of dead weight to drag around.

The Rottne loaders are good loaders but are going to be pretty heavy on the back of a skidder running around the woods, it could get tricky not flipping the skidder over while running the loader.

The next issue is the way the older Rottne's were wired for the joysticks ... if it has the catskull type joysticks with the circuit boards then you will have nothing but nightmares trying to keep them running off of your old skidder. The joysticks for those older machines aren't made anymore and are currently selling for $3200 each plus each circuit board is about $800 and there are 12 or 14 of them in the machine ... any little bit of moisture on those cards and your goose is cooked.

I would find something like a 10 or 12 ton forestry trailer for behind large tractors ... will save you a lot of headaches and money.

Yeah i understand that part.. But thats why I thought if you could make the rear axles of the Forwarder turn it would assist the skidder making the weight not as much of an issue. And for the amount of money one would have to put into this machine i could buy a Manufactured Forwarder.. I mean 15K for the Forwarder, and 12K for the Skidder.. Puts me in that price range of a small older Forwarder, plus no head-aches of trying to fab it all up.. I just thought it would be a cool idea and wanted everyones thoughts



I'm not sure how you could power the rear wheels effectively ... it might be quite a feat of engineering to transfer the hydrostatic system to the back end and then provide enough hydraulic flow to it ... also the loader is going to need a lot of oil flow as well .. probably in the range of double or triple the pump capacity that the old skidder would have ...

It would make one heck of a project but i could see it becoming a real money pit really quick.

Save yourself lots of headaches and find and old forwarder for a decent price ... TJ 230's from the mid 1990's are going for about $25,000 around here in the Ritchie Bros. auctions.

John Woodworth

If you buy the skidder look for a Young swing grapple and you could load with it as well as yard.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

Maine372

Quote from: SwampDonkey on December 04, 2010, 05:08:43 PM
You mean the loader. I can't remember and never gave it much attention.

Does Timberline do write-ups about operators in the Maritimes? The owner has been in a couple publications with his operations because he's a spokesman for woodlot owners and small scale logging. He's the president of our Federation of Woodlot Owners. This was on a town lot he was cutting and I was over seeing.

heres an indirect link to the article. it wasnt timberline it was Canadian Forest Industries. at one point i read the article with pictures included, but i cant find that now.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3764/is_199710/ai_n8763093/?tag=content;col1

SwampDonkey

Not the same guy, but similar setup. This fellow has been in Atlantic Forestry Review.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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