Thinking About Pursing a Degree in Forestry/Forest Resource Management

MichHunter · November 27, 2010, 09:26:36 PM

I am from Northestern Lower Michigan and I have been thinking of pursing a degree in forestry on the forest resource management end of things. I have just recently started to investigate what opportunities might be out there. I was thinking I would find try to volunteer my time this summer with a state or federal forester or forestry unit. I was hoping someone involved in forestry at the state or federal level might give me some good advice as to getting my feet wet. Actually, any advice from any forester with a Bachelor's in Forestry would be greatly appreciated.

This is my first post on The Forestry Forum. Thanks!

MichHunter · November 27, 2010, 09:53:19 PM

I should give you some information as to why I might be interested in forestry. My vision of a forestry job that is right for me may not be realistic. I enjoy spending time in the woods. As my username implies I am a hunter. I have also been working on managing 80 acres that my family ownes and I realize that a forest left alone and not managed will not help wildlife or industry to put its resources to use. I spend as much time as possible walking state and federal forest searching for places to hunt, and I believe that a job where you are in charge of keeping records and writing plans for future forest use would be of real interest to me. I enjoy planting and growing trees form seed. I have not planted trees to the level that a forester might after an area has been harvested but I believe I would really enjoy this work. From reading job descriptions on the internet I understand that a forester's job has many facets, including but not limited to fighting forest fires, overseeing timber harvesting operations, and other duties. I am really looking forward to volunteering my time working with foresters if the opportunity presents itself. These are just a few of my thoughts. I have a mathematics and physics background with some controls engineering mixed in. I have been imployed as a mathematics and physics teacher for the last ten years and still put my heart and soul into it but I think that I might like to try another career.

Magicman · November 27, 2010, 10:12:39 PM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

MichHunter · November 27, 2010, 10:27:54 PM

Thanks Magicman!

Great to be here!

Texas Ranger · November 27, 2010, 11:08:06 PM

I don't want to rain on your parade, but, this is a bad time for foresters and forestry. You are some years away from a degree, you will start at the low end of the profession if jobs are available and the income is low at that end.

Public foresters earn about what a teacher earns, business and government tend to have places to go employment wise, but do a lot of moving, but get a little higher income.

You may want to consider branching out in your teaching, going into the biological sciences, further your education into the natural sciences and see where that takes you. If you do decide the forestry route, go with a specialty other than management, we are a dime a dozen. Statistics, computer science, industrial management, etc. An advanced degree is almost required for entry positions these days.

When I was in the MBA program a west coast company contacted me with job offers within the first few weeks of grad school (this was MANY years ago). It was enough to have a BS and MBA to have them scouting. But I followed my heart, and wife to be, and went to work as a state forester, then a consultant. And made a teachers salary.

Think long and hard on the subject, see if there is a less traveled path.

Oh, and welcome to the forum, we are not all gloom and doom.

MichHunter · November 27, 2010, 11:25:44 PM

Thanks Texas Ranger! Thinking long and hard is what I am doing. I know that you are all not gloom and doom. I have read enough on here to realize that you are people giving your honest opinions and respecting what others have to say as well as taking it into account.

Bro. Noble · November 28, 2010, 10:18:12 AM

MichHunter,

Welcome to the forum.

What T Ranger told you sounds like good information to me. I remember thinking about becoming a gunsmith because I loved trading old guns and restoring them. My Dad told me that I should do whatever I really wanted to do and I would be able to make a living at it if I were good enough, BUT he advised me that sometimes a really good hobby isn't a satisfactory carear. In my case, he was right as I kinda lost interest in old guns probably due to not being able to afford them since the prices soared.

I share your interest in forest land, but I'm not a forester. I took some basic courses in forestry, accumulated some forestry books and literature, spent some time with foresters, manage our forest land and log and sawmill the timber from it. You have an occupation that is in demand and apparently enjoy it. You could spend the money that you would spend going back to school (and what you would make by not being unemployed during that time) on additional forest land and maybe even a little sawmill and logging equipment. Could be a case of having your cake and eating it too.

You will soon learn that about any topic on this forum ends up on food :D :D

tyb525 · November 28, 2010, 11:18:45 AM

What Bro. Noble said:

If you use the money you would've spend on school tuition and lack of employment, you could by yourself some land (or logs) and a few moderate pieces of equipment. You'll learn a ton about forestry and everything else along the way. And believe me, you'll learn a lot on the Forum, probably almost as much as you would in school, plus a whole lot more "real world" skills ;).

Phorester · November 28, 2010, 11:26:07 AM

To whet your appetite (here we go on food again ;D) and/or to further your forestry knowledge on how to manage your own woodlands, you should investigate any Extension forestry courses in your area. I've taught at a bunch of them over the years. Here Va Tech also has forestry bus tours every year in different parts of Virginia, where they travel to different properties and see active management practices. If you have not already done so, get your local State Agency forester to your property for a forest management plan. You can then pick his/her brain too. You might also be able to go with him for a day to get a better idea of his job. If this is not feasible, hire a consulting forester to write you a management plan.

As T Ranger says, with a career switch to forestry even after another career for 10 years you'd be starting over at entry level pay, and if you have a family this might prove unworkable.

Rocky_Ranger · November 28, 2010, 06:15:13 PM

Well, I would respectively disagree; knowing the job profiles and estimated 30% retirement for Federal foresters/Forest Service in the next two or three years I would find me a Fed and do some digging in that DanG cake/pudding/dessert.....

Federal pay is pretty good when you consider the benefits, it's my second or third career and me and momma are very happy. I now have 15 years in with the Agency. Having a math and sciences background could launch you into some of the new GIS and spatial arena where the sky really is the limit. I wouldn't spend too much time of firefighting since it is more or less "stove piped" and you really don't make much in that line. Just do your time to get another degree, spend some time on the ground (including firefighting as a collateral duty), and work in some management (graduate) courses.

By background I take it to mean an undergraduate degree? Two years could fix you right up. Give me a call and we'll chat..........

WDH · November 28, 2010, 06:23:56 PM

Like is short. Do what you want to do. Go for it.

MichHunter · November 28, 2010, 07:25:50 PM

Thanks, Bro Moble and tyb525. You definitely shared some interesting options.

Phorester, We have already have a Forest Stewardship Plan that was written for us by a forester that graduated from Michigan Tech. He was not interested in overseeing and tree harvesting that he suggested in his plan so we got his blessing to have another forester with a good reputation oversee the bid process and harvesting. Interest by logging companies dropped when we decided to have a forester oversee the process. I have read too many articles talking about the need for a forester when having trees harvested, and the nightmare situations that have occured when others have gone it alone. Thanks! I am excited to see this plan get under way.

Rocky Ranger, Thank you for your input. The last thing that I want to do is make a bad career move that will hurt my family for years to come. I am blessed to have a wife who is very supportive and an excellent Mother to our children. I am planning to volunteer some time this summer and get a better taste of what a State or Federal Forester does. If there is a good chance that I could land a job with the State or Federal Government then I will discuss the change further with my wife and make a discission form there. We are going to do our best to live on one income for a while to put some money away. Whether I change careers or not being smart with our money is a good move for the future.

Thank You! WDH I hope that ends up being the case.

Ron Scott · November 28, 2010, 10:01:11 PM

Where in NE Lower Michigan are you located? Near the Huron National Forest areas?

Phorester · November 28, 2010, 10:09:44 PM

Good for you on having a FSP on your property. Just wanted to clarify that I was suggesting this as a way for you to get input directly from another forester regarding his particular job and his insights on a forestry career.

Sounds like the Fed route may be a possibility for you.

Ron Wenrich · November 29, 2010, 06:46:14 AM

There are a lot of different avenues that you can travel with a degree. If you go the industrial route, most often you end up being a procurement forester. Depending on the company, you might get to do some forest management plans and oversee logging operations. But, procurement work is primarily contacting landowners and buying timber. Sometimes your perspective and your boss's won't match.

You can go the consultant route. But, its best to get some experience before you hang out your shingle. That would be either industry or government. You would be able to do a wider amount of services. But, ultimately timber income is the bottom line and pays for your services. A lot of folks go into the consulting business because they can't find a job in the other markets.

The government could be a good spot, but competition for jobs always seem high. With your high interest in wildlife, maybe a wildlife degree would be a good minor or major. We have a Game Commission in our state that oversees 1 million acres of hunting grounds. They do conduct timber sales, but their management is a lot different than that of the more commercial interests. It might be a good fit. But, government economics in years to come may make these jobs harder to get. You could put the wildlife degree to some use as a consultant.

I got my degree many years ago. It took a few years to find a job in the field, and then I got one as a choker setter on the west coast. There was a recession at the time. I eventually started to work at a sawmill, then to procurement and then into consulting work. Another recession put me back in the sawmill. I ended up staying at the mill level.

The degree opens up doors that will remain shut without one.

Frank H. · November 30, 2010, 07:15:21 AM

Well, I've got most of a degree under my belt now in Environmental Resource Management, with a Forestry minor. Two more semesters and I'm there. I switched to the Enviro. degree, as I couldn't leave the area to finish the last bit of Forestry degree away from home. I have a small business doing some tree work, some logging, some welding and am concentrating more and more on the logging. The degree may help you get work, but your own ambitions are what make all the difference. Learn all you can about the field, and apply your knowledge. Don't just go for the 9-5 paycheck. If you love what you do, eventually you'll be successful at it. (thats what I keep telling myself when I am welding, instead of operating my Stihl or skidder) Good luck, and don't ever let anyone tell you you can't do it as a full time provider/father/or husband. You certainly can.

MichHunter · November 30, 2010, 07:57:56 PM

Ron Wenrich and Frank H.

Thank you for sharing the roads that you have taken and for the encouragement. I am going to be referring back to what all of you have typed as I continue investigating.

Ron Scott

I am in Alpena, so I am north of the Huron National Forest area, but not by far. I mentioned the Huron National Forest to my wife as we came back north after Thanksgiving. Their is a boat-load of state land in my area. I had a long talk with one of the forum members here the other night and he mentioned that you might me a good person to talk to. I had read a number of your posts before he metioned you and I was hoping to touch base with you if you have the time and don't mind. I can see that you keep members of the forum up to date with the job openings in Michigan. I need to spend some time investigating job openings that might be available in this area in the future.

Ron Scott · November 30, 2010, 08:59:45 PM

Feel free to give me a call. There are a number of Federal and State foresters in your nearby area that you might want to contact and discuss future opportunities. There may be some opportunities for summer employment if you have summers off. It's a good way to get a feel for and some exposure to forestry, especially if you get on a summer firefighting crew on the Huron Forest.

MichHunter · December 01, 2010, 07:25:22 PM

Ron,

I am planning and contacting some of the state foresters in the area and seeing where I could volunteer this summer. I would definitely like to ask them about what the job future looks like.

Forester,

I have talked to the foresters that we went through for our FSP to some extent about their work. I should give them a call and inquire some more about the forestry opportunities in this area. They are bpth really friendly and willing to share information. Especially the gentleman who is going to oversee the cutting on our 80.

KBforester · December 02, 2010, 05:41:57 PM

MichHunter,

If you think you'll like forestry, go for it. I graduated in 2007, and jobs aren't as hard to find as you might think. Federal and State jobs are always highly sought after. If you really want a Job when you graduated, be flexible and be open to move across the country. Make sure you keep forestry jobs during your summers away from school. The fed's hire LOTS of timber sale prep crews to do timber marking/cruising. They are easy jobs to get. One forest I worked for hired mostly college students (non-forestry majors) and school teachers out on summer break. Of course, I was in the middle of nowhere, not much demand.

Right now I'm an Industrial Forester in Edge of nowhere Maine, and Consulting foresters are in Very Short Supply, enough so, that I've started to do consulting on the side, and I am way too busy.

There are plenty of Jobs out there, check out the SAF career resources when you graduate. If you get you 4 year degree (from an SAF acredited school [important!]) they should have job seeking resources for before, and after graduation. Be flexible though, it might take a lot of a$$ kissing to get in the region you want to live.

Clark · December 02, 2010, 08:50:45 PM

WDH is right about life...and maybe some other things. :D

Concerning jobs in the future, I think the outlook is good. At this exact moment it isn't too rosy but there is hope. I know that the state of MN has about 40 vacancies in their forestry department. They just offered a buy-out for near retirement age personnel and many are taking it. They also have a hiring freeze right now. Something will give in the near future. While this might be an extreme case I doubt the circumstances are unique to MN.

In your walks through the woods if you enjoy thinking about what can be done with the forest, what will happen if nothing is done, and what the future forest will look like based on different management decisions I would say that you're headed in the right direction with forestry.

Clark

MichHunter · December 02, 2010, 10:17:12 PM

Clark and KBForester,

Thanks for the advice and info. I do love walking in the woods and thinking of ways that it could be improved or managed, plus I have always been intrigued with the woods and its ever changing make-up from area to area and even season to season. I think that my first step is to contact foresters in either Atlanta, Gladwin, Gaylord and maybe Grayling because a friend of mine is a hydrologist in the Grayling office. I need to spend some time with a few foresters this summer and really get a feel for forestry. It sounds like there is such a variety of positions and duties that you have to spend time with a few foresters to get a feel for what is really out there. I would have to job shadow and volunteer this summer. If I come out knowing that forestry is a career that I want to finish out my working years in, then I would have to teach another year and try to live off of one income as much as possible. One problem is that I think that Michigan Tech is the ideal school for me (Michigan State is also a good school). I think that a degree from Mich Tech would make me the most marketable from what I have read and from a few conversations that I have had. One of the problems is that I live about 6 or so hours from Tech by road. My wife is supportive but I really would like to minimize the time that I spend away from my wife and two boys. The time you miss with them is time that you can't get back. The true test will be how I feel after the summer. After that, if I still want to make the switch and I can make a plan that does not inconvience my family too much. I would go for it. It still seems like a long shot but it will be an interesting learning experience none the less. Another thing that you guys have metiontioned, is that sometimes it takes some moving until you land the job you want, in the area that you want to be in, and I don't think that my wife or I would like to drag the kids from school to school. Ideally the job prospects would look good for the future in my current area and my wife would not have to quit the job that she has through the whole process. Thanks for taking time to read this thread and post. To be up front with those sharing their time and insight I wanted to give you an idea of the total picture for me. It seems like an unlikely senario, but I believe that I will still enjoy investigating the possibilities.

MichHunter · December 21, 2010, 10:47:33 PM

Hey Guys,

I contacted a state forester in my area and I will be job shadowing/volunteering with him on 12/27 and 12/28. I will let you know how my experience goes.

Ed_K · December 22, 2010, 08:17:12 PM

I told my forester that I'd work for $10.an hr to follow him around and make little dots in his tally book 8).Didn't last long tho, now he says go mark it yourself.I know I can do it,but I feel better having a forester mark a lot for the landowner.Should have gone to college when i was younger,marking timber is more fun that cutting it.

MichHunter · June 07, 2011, 10:10:17 PM

Well guys. A sincere thanks to all of you who responded to this thread a number of months ago. Tomorrow is my last day with students as a high school math teacher.

On August 22 I start my journey towards a Master of Foretry Degree at Michigan Tech. :P I feel confident that this is the right decision for me. I am very excited about working towards this degree. 8) I will fill you in more later.

Dale