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How to scale standing timber

Started by Jerry, November 17, 2010, 10:52:19 PM

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Jerry

Have a chance to buy some standing timber and was wondering how to figure out how much to offer for it. I am not going into the lumber business. Just wanted to buy for a cabin I am going to build myself. I have a LT40 manual mill and just saw for myself.
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woodmills1

you need to measure the diameter and find a way to estimate the usable height


diameter is easy using a diameter tape, either purchased or made

height is a little harder using a device called a hypsometer

once you have those numbers there are many tables to estimate board foot, there may even be one here
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Kansas

The Kansas Forest Service used to give away these promotional sticks that looked like yardsticks. You held it at arms length and you could gauge both diameter and height. Taping a tree is a lot better for diameter, but I did get where I was reasonably close. I played with the height part of it and with a little practice, you could get reasonably close.

SwampDonkey

You could also use one of those squares with a level on the base and a 45 degree square arm. Stand back from the tree until the base of the square is level and at the same time the top of the 45 degree arm shows the top of the tree in the line of side along that arm. Use a tape to measure distance to the tree centre (measured to the side of the tree) and add the distance from the ground to eye level. Gives total height. This is for level flat ground, otherwise measure and site along the same ground contour (think topography map) the tree is on. It's using tangents, so tangent of 45 degrees is 1.



You can make a home made angle gauge so you can determine density. At 10 ft2/acre, it takes a gauge of 1" width and a 33" long string, or any combination that gives a ration of 1 to 33. Gauge has to be held out the length of the string from the eye. Get a stick so when looking through the gauge your holding it 4.5 feet off the ground and looking as close as you can estimate by sight to 4.5 feet up from the tree base. Each tree counted, in a circular sweep over a fixed point, has to fill the gauge "window" and accounts for 10 ft2/acre. Keep a running tally by species, it's diameter and height as well as the number of points taken.



String goes in the hole, knot it on the back and measure and cut to length on the other end. What we do is leave a little extra tail on the string and knot it at the desired length. That way you have a little tail to hold onto when holding the string up to your eye. ;)
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1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

pappy19

You'll need to answer (or ask the landowner) if the cut would go down to a minimum diameter and minimum height for your use as logs for your cabin, or, if you will just cut all merchantable timber. Big differences probably. It may be better to just pay for the cut timber you want on a board foot basis from what your local mill is paying. The other option is to ask the state forester to do a cruise for you, but you'll still need to determine the size class you are interested in.

Pap
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Clark

Jerry - I get the impression you're looking to buy several, maybe several dozen trees from a landowner.  We're not talking a high volume enterprise here.  If that is the case I think there is a simple, low-cost method to do that.

First you'll need pick up a copy of "Tables for Estimating Board-Foot Volume of Timber" by Mesavage and Girard.  You can buy a hard copy here or at the various forestry supply outfits (Ben Meadows, Forestry Suppliers, etc).  There is also an online version here.  The hard copy would be better for field use although I see the online version gives you everything, including the table of form class by species.

In the field you'll need a method to measure diameter at 4.5' from the ground and the ability to estimate the number of 16' logs.  Record the data on the trees you want to buy, look up the volumes and then tabulate how much you are willing to pay and you've got an offer.

As I said before, this is for a low volume operation only.  Let us know how it goes.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

WDH

Clark,

Your low volume approach is the way we used to do it all the time many years ago before computers!!  I would call it old fashioned as much or more so than low volume  ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

I was going on the assumption that the land owner was selling the whole stand or section of timber, not just going in and cherry picking trees.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Troublermaker

When I was in school they taught us to use a Biltmore stick which is about the same as been talk about here except it like a yard stick. You stand 66 feet back from the tree and see how many 16 foot logs you could get from it. This will explain it better.

http://forestry.about.com/od/forestvaluation/ss/biltmore_stick.htm

Clark

WDH - I think when you don't allow for any sort of expansion factor (ie - apply the statistics...shudder) then it is a low-volume method as you have to do a 100% cruise.  Unless you're in really valuable timber I'm guessing you were doing some sort of sampling, finding an average volume and then expanding to account for all the acres.

If he is buying a stand of timber as SD thinks, then things get trickier and some statistics...shudder...have to be applied.  It would be nice to hear back from him, some more information could really help him in this situation.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

WDH

Clark,

I see what you are getting at now.  We always designed and laid out the cruise based on variability and statistics.  Scaling every tree eliminates the need for the statistics, but I always hated doing 100% cruises.  Guys around here would put flour in a sock and "thunk" all the trees that had been measured to keep you from measuring the same tree twice inadvertantly.  All the trees start looking the same after a while  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Jerry

Fellow members and foresters the timber I was talking about was selected trees mostly red cedar, and some pine. Not wanting to buy a whole stand of timber. I want to thank all of you for your help.Thanks
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Ron Wenrich

If you're looking at single tree volume, you can use our trusty calculator. 

https://forestryforum.com/calcs/Board%20foot%20calculator.htm

Its based on the Metsavage and Girard book.  You can even download it to your computer. 
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