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Stroke sander

Started by Handy Andy, November 08, 2010, 09:55:55 PM

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Handy Andy

  I'm still lookin at sanders.  Just know my belt sander is NOT the way to go.  I get tracks even though I hold the thing flat on the board.  Can't see them until I put the finish on.   So I was lookin at these stroke sanders.  Don't seem to be very popular, but they say sand with them and then apply finish.  And they will remove a lot of wood where you need to. Take up a lot of space, but think i could move a pile of boards and put against the north wall, or maybe the west wall.  Both have a pile of boards. Never seen one of these things work.   My nephew is building a new house and I get to do the cabinets. So getting serious about some kind of sander.
My name's Jim, I like wood.

pasbuild

The eye will see the straight line sanding, you need to trick the eye by making your final pass with a random orbital.  I sand down to 180gr on the wide belt and go back with 150gr on the RO hand sander.
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

Larry

First choice is a wide belt sander big nuff for doors.  Second choice is to rent time on a wide belt sander.  Third choice would be a stroke sander followed by drum sanders.

The drawback to the stroke sander is they do take operator involvement, dust collection is poor, and they take a huge amount of room.

I have a 24" double drum Grizzly that I might sell if your interested in going that route.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

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Handy Andy

  I was lookin at going with one of those drum sanders, started reading about sanders and looks like drum isn't the best, as they create mill marks, similar to a jointer. Looks like these cheap wide belts do the same thing. Need a platen to make the belt hit the board flat. Have no experience with these stroke sanders, so hoped someone with experience would reply. The price looks right, and they say you can go right to finish after using one.
My name's Jim, I like wood.

Fla._Deadheader


What are you guys calling a stroke sander ??
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

metalspinner

Quotestarted reading about sanders and looks like drum isn't the best, as they create mill marks, similar to a jointer

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement.  Can you clarify?

It's been my experience that a drum sander will leave the surface of the wood defect free.  Yes, sanding lines do need to be removed, but depending on the grit on the sanding drum, this takes minimal effort.

Pasbuild hit my procedure right on the mark.  Off the random orbit sander, the surface is mirror smooth with no decernable sanding marks.

Spiral head planer, drum sander with 120 grit belt, random orbit sander starting at 120, then 180, finish.

The surface of the wood coming out of my drum sander creates a vacuum on stacked pieces the surface is so flat. :)
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Fla._Deadheader


For what it's worth, I used to operate one of those. Never knew the name of it.

You wear a Teflon-asbestos?? glove, and work the piece in and out, under the belt. Hold pressure on the belt to sand as heavy as you dare.

I used to sand Cherry Veneer, glued to Particle Board, making church furniture, that were 16' long.  Any gaps, put a dab of white glue in it, and sand right over it. 
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Handy Andy

  What I meant by mill marks, is that the drum sander is round and makes little waves on the board as it moves through, similar to a jointer or planer.
My name's Jim, I like wood.

Handy Andy

  So, what do you guys think of the Grizzly wide belt sanders?  They have this 15" wide belt with open end for 3195 plus 169 shipping in the christmas catalog. Says it has a platen.  It will crowd my shop for sure, but sure would be nice to cut out a stack of door panels and just run them through.  Model G9983 .  They also have this model G0664 REALLY priced right,1895 plus 89 shipping, but the motor sticks out to the right, and would be a pain in my crowded circumstances.  The features mention no platen, so appears it sands on the drum. Anybody have either of these machines?
My name's Jim, I like wood.

metalspinner

Handy,

The waves should not show up on a board.  The waves from the planer are from the intermittent cutting of the knives.  That's one of the advantages of the spiral head - a continuos cut.  The drum sander has the same continous cut thus no waves.  However, if the board slips on the feed belt and stops under the drum then you will get a dig in that spot. :)

I believe I've seen a newer model drum sander with an oscilating head that is supposed to mask the parallel lines.  Performax, I think, maybe Jet.

I'm not familiar with the Grizzley units.  But I am familiar with shoehorning in big tools in a tight spot. :D  Go for it!
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Burlkraft

I have a Jet 22-44 that has an oscillating head

Why did I wait so long......??
Why not just 1 pain free day?

Doug_D

Handy,

Your missing a step in the process if going from a straight line sander directly to applying finish.  You'll get sanding marks a majority of the time regardless of the type of straight line sander you use.

The first response by pasbuild is right on the money.  Spend $69 on a random orbit sander (ROS) and 2 minutes of time will cure your problem.

Most cabinet shops I know use a large wide belt sander to take that annoying 1/32 off between face frame joints and glue ups (for raised panels).  They do not use it for finish sanding.  Thats still done with a ROS. 

Our adventure in Building a Log Cabin Rental Business!
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TheWoodsman

In my commercial woodworking experience, a random orbit sander has never been the last step (for quality work that it) . . . unless applying a clear or painted finish.    We would use stroke sanders often for thin veneers as they allow very good control with an experienced user and we would also use them for sanding wood edging flush to a veneered surface. 
Parts coming off a stroke sander have a superior sanding pattern to parts coming off a wide belt sander, unless you happen to have a $100K or more wide belt sander . . . and even then there's a good chance the stroke sander will give you the better sanding pattern.  Why is this ?  Well, the belt on the wide belt sander oscillates back and forth for tracking reasons and will leave what we always call "snake tracks" in the sanding pattern.  There are visible when wiping stain is applied.  A stroke sander leaves a straight sanding pattern like you want/same as block sanding by hand . . . but if you are using old, worn out belts they may not "cut" well.

What we would normally do is hand-block sand anything that either came off the wide belt sander or anything that had been touched with a random orbit sander.  We did this to get a superior sanding pattern which would take stain consistently without leaving snake tracks or tiny circles (ROS).  Again, for painting or clear finish this doesn't matter so much since pigment hanging in the scratch pattern will not be an issue.

For hand block sanding, we would make out own blocks and buy hard felt from McMaster Carr to glue onto the blocks.  This provides the best surface for a sanding block and allows the heat from the friction is dissipate which makes you sandpaper last longer.  You can also buy straight stair rail moulding, glue a flat wood piece to the bottom to match your sandpapers size, and apply the had felt to that.

Happy sanding !   :D

PS - we were producing high end architectural millwork and hospital furniture.  Both of which would be rejected for visible orbital or other sanding scratches in the finish.
2009 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28, WM-DH4000 dry kiln, & lots of other great "toys"

I am the Woodsman, the four-wheelin', tree-farmin', custom-furniture-makin' descendant of Olaf "The Woodcutter" Ingjaldsson.

woodhick

Just to add my two cents.  I had a large stroke sander but never got it set up before I traded it for a scroll sander.  I did have a drum sander set up in shop for a while but I did not like it, too slow and burnt.  Now I was probably pushing it too hard, so the burning was probably mostly my fault.   I work a lot in Cherry and it burns easy.   I sold it and ended up with a Powermatic wide belt sander.  It is the open sided type but does have a platen behind the drum.  It does a much better job (speed wise) than the drum but does not do well if you double pass a wide panel.  I could probably tweak the adjsutments and make it work better but I use it mostly for narrow (under 15" ) stock.  On wider panels I sand the stock before I glue it up and then use  a ROS to finsih them up.  It all boils down to how much you need one, what your budget is, and how fast you want it to perform.  Good luck with your decision.
Woodmizer LT40 Super 42hp Kubota, and more heavy iron woodworking equipment than I have room for.

TheWoodsman

Yeah, the drum sanders really aren't worth a diddly.  They leave to much chatter and it's too easy to burn the abrasive / workpiece unless taking verrrrrry light passes.  Also, you can't sand veneer with them.  Wide belts are good for solid flat stock.  The beauty of the stroke sander is that you can sand solid wood, you can sand veneer, you can level up a solid edge on a veneer panel, and you can even dish out a chair seat if you want.  They are very flexible.
2009 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28, WM-DH4000 dry kiln, & lots of other great "toys"

I am the Woodsman, the four-wheelin', tree-farmin', custom-furniture-makin' descendant of Olaf "The Woodcutter" Ingjaldsson.

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