iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Log Preparation

Started by Tom, October 21, 2001, 02:27:06 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tom

I saw logs at many different sites and they are already sawed to length and ramped. Those are some of my rules to make things go faster and the mill can saw instead of sitting around idle waiting for log handling.

Because of this, many of the logs get ramped in a stack without proper preparation.  Cutting limbs off to many means leaving 6 or 8 inch stubs. They don't consider that the log may have to be rolled on the ground or turned on the mill and those stubs make it difficult as well as catching and breaking equipment.  Limbs and forks, unless you are after a special board, should be cut as close to the trunk as possible.

I damaged my mill the other day because of a log not being prepped properly.

When the log was bucked it was cut from both sides and the cuts didn't meet in the middle.  There was a piece of wood about the size of your palm left attached to the butt that was almost free standing because it was where the cuts passed each other before the log broke in half.

When the band blade exited the log, it cut this piece off.  Usually a piece like this will just fall straight down or be thrown in the direction of blade travel where it could hurt someone.  This time it apparently stuck to the blade and was carried to the blade guide with all the speed of the blade.  The force was great enough that it bent the guide to the side at over 45 degrees and ruined the mount.

These mounts are Aluminum and difficult to bend back but I was able to get it back to a serviceable position and put off the purchase of an expensive piece of material.

These are the kinds of damages that can be avoided if log inspection is done prior to loading the logs onto the mill.  I, as many will do, fail to do this to save time and end up paying for it out of my pocket.

When I was in Pa. at Ron's, I was impressed with the beautifully bucked and prepped logs I saw on the trucks and commented to him about it.  He told me that the trucks I saw belonged to Loggers who worked for the mill and they spent extra time to make them right.

If you are sawing logs for someone who is ignorant or careless with log prep, make sure you check each log for loose material, pieces that the blade could throw, dirt, limbs, rocks or anything that could hurt the mill, or worse yet, a bystander.

Ron Wenrich

Good points.  As nice as many of those looked on the truck, I usually get several that are crooked.

Crooked logs are the worst I come across.  Usually it is due to sloppy bucking, or just trying to get something out of the tree that just isn't there.

Crooked logs are hard to position on the carriage, and I imagine it is just as tough on the smaller bandmills.  Dogging can be a problem.

Another problem I have is split logs.  This can be from careless cutting, frozen ground, or rough handling.  This is especially true of some guys who think you have to spear logs with the log forks, instead of getting underneath them.

Splits will usually fill up with dirt and rocks, either from yarding or skidding.  Split material can also be thrown in a variety of directions and often makes dogging impossible.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Corley5

I despise knots that aren't cut flush with the log.  If I'm lucky I can position the log so the knot will cut off on the first slab.  There are times when there are knots all around and the only way is to fire up the chainsaw and trim them the way they should have been in the woods or on the landing.  Long knots that hang down will hit my saw guide, saw collar etc.  People don't seem to realize that a crooked log just doesn't yield much lumber unless you a bunch of short pieces.  I've been whittling away at bunch of worthless popple (big tooth and quaking aspen).  I told the logs owner 8" tops minimum.  He brought 4" and up and the average is about 6". >:(  After spending many hours tailing he told me the other day that he'd never bring me that size logs again.  He did have them trimmed good though. :)  
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

marc

I was just wondering how many nails or wire you hit when cutting, I know of a few mills that won't even look at logs that come of front lawns or around houses ant cottages because of that.

Jeff

Ah, yes tramp metal is what its called marc. Ron and I see way more then our share of that stuff. As we run large mills, been doing it a lot of years and see a lot of logs we probably have more metal stories then you would dream. The last big thing I hit (Nails and wire don't hardly count) was a large steel door hinge. Not Pretty.

Your right, we don't buy or saw logs out of yards ot that grew near any dwellings unless of course its the pretty neighbor lady's tree that lives next to the boss.

When it comes to properly trimmed logs, I usually do not have a problem with knots, as our Morbark debarker either grinds them off, or if they were to big for that the debarker guy trims them first.  What I hate is butt shatter from the old shear harvestors.  The shears would get dull, get a little overbite and cause the rings to seperate up to a foot, foot and a half from the shear point. Sawing a shattered sheared beech log put me in the hospital, but thats another story.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tom

Well Marc,

I run into a little bit of metal but not a lot.  It doesn't take a lot though.  I use a metal detector to avoid the bulk of it and make sure the customer knows that I charge for every damaged blade.

The neat thing about bandsaws is that it makes cutting valuable yard tree wood feasible.  A customer will pay for a few bandsaw blades, if the wood is valuable, enough but he wouldn't risk it on a $2000 circle saw.

Part of sawmilling, or any business, is finding your niche and doing what nobody else wants to do.  It is the best way to make money.

I found my niche cutting yard trees and it has been very productive.  I still hate to ruin a blade on a nail but have resigned myself to the fact that I will hit them now and again if I continue this kind of work.

It really hurts when your cutting the wood for yourself and have to take the blade charge out of your pocket.  :D

Corley5

Grandpa refused to saw black walnut.  Up here the only black walnut logs came out of old homestead yards.  The couple times he did saw them he found hardware.  BIG spikes one time that really did a number on the saw.  The logs owner got charged for that.  We've got a black walnut in our barnyard with 3 links of a 5/16" chain hanging out of it.  Have no idea how many are in the tree.  I found a 16 penny spike in a 20" diam. red elm the other day.  It had been driven in when the tree was about 4".  Didn't hurt the saw. Whew!
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Tom

a 16d probably would have trashed a bandblade.

After I've been through nails I'm usually looking at a blade that I should only cut my own fence post with.

I hit two 8d's the other day and thought that I had only bent a tooth a little so I kept on sawing.  It was the last log.  Today I was working on the mill and looked at the blade.....6 teeth are missing.  If it hadn't been the last log I would have checked it and replaced it the other day.  I definitely will now because that many teeth missing will cause so much strain on the back that it could pull the blade apart.

Don P

I've only sawn Walnut twice, but hit nails both times. Not again till I get a metal detector.

What happens when a band breaks? How dangerous is it?

Since must of my logs are prepped by me I can only complain about my own work. I took out the feed cable early on while turning a log. A tree that I barber chaired threw a couple of harpoons clear out of the millshed. A White Pine knot hanging by the bark made it to the back side of the blade, was then picked up and thrown back by hard enough to break the handle on one of the dogs. Rocks and dirt are my biggest problem, need to make an arch. I've used a boom pole for small stuff but thats not a safe way to skid.

Tom

When a band breaks on one of my mills, there is a loud pop and about 8 inches of band will sometimes stick out of the sawdust shoot.  The log has hold of the rest and cover protects you from  the blade getting loose.

On my other mill, the drive pulleys and belts are enclosed within the blade cover and attached to the blade pully.  When the blade breaks it generally gets on top of the belts and gets wadded up until the loose end comes free and whips around outside of the blade housing.  You don't want to be too near when this happens. Nobody has been hurt yet but I make sure everybody stays clear from that side of the mill about 20 feet.  Because the blade gets wadded up there is shrapnel that gets loose from the sawdust shoot. I've not seen it go too far but somebody doing something stupid like holding their hands in the sawdust as it comes out of the shoot could get a hole punched in their hand.

You wouldn't think folks would do something like that but they will and I have to continually be on the lookout for someone getting within a danger area.

Generally speaking though, a bandsaw is a lot safer than a circle saw if for no other reason than the blade is encased in the saw housing and the log.

TanglewoodTimber

When Logs come to me like that I tell the owner it is $1.00 per staub to be removed.  It did not take long and people got the message.   If the load is a real mess I have them return and clean them.

HORSELOGGER

Hey guys, dont assume all circle mills are the big monkeys with 50 inch blades! I run a 8" lucas mill and just like a band , the blade is in the wood and covered with a shroud, and also it rotates away from the operator. It does occasionally send a small trimming sailing, but always forward and never hard enough ( yet ) to go all that far. Hardware is not a big problem because the carbide tips are a buck apiece and easily brased on by a sharpening shop.
Heritage Horselogging & Lumber Co.
"Surgical removal of standing timber, Leaving a Heritage of timber for tommorow. "

TxLogger

I cut & saw a lot of yard trees, mostly pine.  I've gotten some great timber doing this & I charge the customer to cut them.  I jump butt all yard trees & fence trees 6' so that most tramp metal is gone.  I sell some timber to large mills that scan all logs & who will refuse to buy from you again if you bring them metal logs.  

To be honest I think I've sawn more metal that is part of the mill (dogs,clamps, etc..) than hit metal in logs, although cedar is by far the worst I've seen metal in.

Tom

Frank_Pender

Another thing that I do is wash all logs that are to be sawed.  Each customer is informed that all logs are washed for a fee of $1.50 each no matter the size.  If they question the amount I tell waht the costs are going to be for shank and tooth replacement: each tooth $3.65 and each shank is $13.50.  That just about ends the issue.  I use a 3,000psi + Karcher pressure washer for washing. :)
Frank Pender

Jeff

Tooth 3.65? Shank 13.50? hmm...  You must be using somethun foreign to me. Our costs are around a buck a tooth, and if I buy super shanks, around 8 bucks for those.

F pattern saw 9/32 kerf regs.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Don P

I'm close to ordering a new box of teeth, a long term commitment. ::) Are you saying to look for Simonds teeth?

Jeff

Long term commitment? You better go buy a metal detector now Don. You just jinxed yourself. Did you not know that the strongest magnet available is a new set of saw teeth? Ask Ron. Its true. You can go a week and never hit nothing. Replace your teeth because they are short and BAM (My best Emeril imitation) you get iron next log!
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Frank_Pender

  I run a Mobile Dimension Sawmill. 1/4 and 5/16 th teeth  I understand that Simons not makes ll of their teeth.  Can you tell me where they may be cheeeeeper?  I hope.  Thanks, Jeff. ;)
Frank Pender

Ron Wenrich

I bought 5 boxes of Simonds back before Thanksgiving for $85/box.  I get a discount at 5 boxes.  Those are just regular teeth.

I have also run IKS, which is Canadian, and Hoe.  IKS are cheaper, but don't seem to hold up as well.  IKS used to make teeth for Hoe.  Hoe is located in Portland, Ore.  Here's their link.

http://www.pacific-hoe.com

I use chrome teeth on my edger, and on the headsaw in the winter.  I use IKS since they aren't quite as hard, and can be swaged, when necessary.  They run about $125/box.  

I've heard that carbide approaches $3.25/tooth.

The economics hold better for the standard teeth, at least for me.  Rarely will I get through a set of teeth before hitting metal.  Might as well hit it with cheap teeth.

It is true that there is some sort of cosmic law that you will never hit metal with short teeth.  Teeth must be in near new condition to come in contact with metal.

The only exception to this law is if you have recently had your saw hammered.  You may hit metal with short teeth, but it will be much larger.   :D
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

trey_w

Ok, so what are the correct steps for log prep?  Trim, wash, detect metal, cut?

If you put your two cents in and only get a penny for your thoughts...who gets the change?

trey_w

WOAH!  Sorry, didn't mean to dig up this relic.  :D  I did a search on log prep and came up with this, I read the date, but didn't pay attention to the year.  :D :D
If you put your two cents in and only get a penny for your thoughts...who gets the change?

Jeff

There are no relics when it comes to the threads. Anyone of them is fair game to bring back to the top. It make the old relics that posted them to begin with, feel good. ;D

At our mill the prep staps are Be-de-beu.

Buyem-Debarkem-Buzzemup. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

C_Miller

sometimes the detect metal and cut are simultaneous.

C ;)
CJM

Steve

Man don't I know that one!!! ::)
I saw yard Mangos occasionally and they are just terrible. I have several sets of "Mango teeth" that are created in Mango and are saved for sawing Mango. You will find anything from dog chains to nails and bolts to whatever someone left leaning against the tree so long ago.
Then there is the first crotch! Nice wood but it is full of rocks that have landed there over the years and grown in. Probably should just buck this out but I just can't make myself do it. Mango is soft for a hardwood. Reminds me of Spruce in a lot of ways, stringy and hard to saw. You can get through it with dull teeth when you need to. Nothing worse than changing teeth and hitting something next pass.
Steve
Hawaiian Hardwoods Direct
www.curlykoa.com

Frank_Pender

I am still trying to come up with a rotating system that can be used in the washing process.   Where is all of the inventiveness hiding? :D :'(
Frank Pender

Thank You Sponsors!