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Turning bowls

Started by Kansas, October 29, 2010, 09:38:08 PM

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Kansas

Looking for some advice here. I know little if anything about turning wood. I had a call this afternoon from a lady that teaches at a special ed school. She wasn't really able to tell me  everything I needed to know, because she doesn't know much about wood. This is what I know after talking to her.
She needs hardwoods. She says she needs stuff around 12 inches wide.
She is looking for one inch thick material.
We would have red and white oak, Kentucky coffeetree, qs sycamore, hickory, honey locust, maybe some hackberry in those widths.
She is paying for the wood herself for the students. She said she has about 400 dollars to spend. I take it they will plane and glue the pieces together to get the thickness they need, and then turn the bowls. She said they had 14 students.

Questions are... out of those woods, which ones would be the best for turning? Or would work, and which ones to stay away from?
Those woods are from 1.60 to 3.00 a bd foot. How much does she really need? Seems like she doesn't need that much. I kinda thought about helping her out. I know most teachers aren't exactly flush with money. But how many board feet are needed per bowl?

Okrafarmer

It really depends on how they are making the bowls. I've made a few myself. You need to know if she is expecting green or dry wood. (people use both). It seems very strange for her to want 1" thick material. If she really does want that, they may be planning to glue several pieces together to make a multi-species laminated bowl-- but that seems a little more complicated than normal.

The bowl blanks should NOT include pith. They should be cut from side wood. They can come close to the pith, but not into it.

Any species can be used, but unless they specify, seeing how these are special needs people, and probably not advanced users, I would stick with easy-cutting hardwoods such as maple, sycamore, tulip poplar, walnut, and so on-- preferably not the harder tougher ones such as oak, hickory, or coffee-wood. I'm not familiar with how hackberry is.

Since she is asking for 12" wide material, it should be quite easy to determine board footage.

I'm very surprised she wants 1" thick stuff. Usually people want approx. 3-4" thick (sometimes more or less, depending on what they have in mind). A lot of people make green-cut bowls using half (or nearly half) round pieces of wood, leaving the pith-width off. They rough it out to the basic shape of a bowl, but thick, let it dry until it is dry ( and usually warped) and then remount it, turn it down more, until it is a thin-walled bowl. Green wood is easier to work with than dry. However, dry wood doesn't warp.

Better make double sure she wants 1" thick. Ask her if she wants as many different species as possible, or mostly the same. Ask if these users are beginners or more advanced. (the more advanced, the more they will want multiple species and nice figured wood).

Soft maple is probably the ideal turning wood, especially for beginners. (others may have different opinions).

Others on here may well have more experience and insight than I do.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Kansas

She was told  not to use soft maple. Which suprised me, because I have had turners get that. The problem is I don't think she really knows what to get; she is going off of information someone told her.  We have some smaller walnut or sycamore logs that we could just slab out some 4 inch pieces, which would make more sense to me. And yes, the 1" doesn't make sense. By the time they plane it to 3/4, they will be laminating about 5 or 6 pieces.

SwampDonkey

I would send some oak and anything in abundance. I think they may be saying no to the softer woods as some that are real soft bur up, like butternut and basswood. Red maple would be fine, probably wouldn't be able to separate it from yellow birch by the sounds of it. Softer elms are tricky, they tend to move and split.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Okrafarmer

To me, the laminating thing is kind of an advanced technique. It can be interesting to have a bowl made out of several layers of alternating colors (think walnut and maple) but I wouldn't normally do that first with new learners. Now maybe they're more advanced than I thought, and they just had the wrong person doing the procurements. But I would want more info.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Okrafarmer

Quote from: SwampDonkey on October 30, 2010, 06:57:48 AM
I would send some oak and anything in abundance. I think they may be saying no to the softer woods as some that are real soft bur up, like butternut and basswood. Red maple would be fine, probably wouldn't be able to separate it from yellow birch by the sounds of it. Softer elms are tricky, they tend to move and split.

I've never trued butternut, basswood, or elm on the lathe, you're no doubt right, SD. I really can't understand why she doesn't want red maple. Maybe they are more advanced. Maple works real well for this kind of thing. But, I do know that people who really get passionate about bowl-turning often get into this experimental mode where they feel incomplete until they have made a bowl out of every species they can think of.

She asked for it. Like SD said, give her some oak, and maybe some coffee-wood, definitely sycamore, some walnut, etc. She's obviously not the instructor. It would be so much better if you could talk to the instructor. If she is the instructor, somebody's gonna get hurt.  :'(
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Patty

You know, the more information you have the better everything will turn-out. (pun intended  ;D )  Anywho, contact this lady and ask her these questions that have come up in this thread. If she cannot answer them, ask her to send you to the person who can. No way do you want to learn later than some child was hurt unnecessarily due to you providing some wood that was not easily turned. Not that it would be your fault, no way am I implying that, but why take such a risk? This class can be a learning and fun experience for the kids (and you) or it can turn into a very sad or hurtful event. If it were me, I would get answers to your questions, before proceeding any further....just saying.....
Women are Angels.
And when someone breaks our wings....
We simply continue to fly ........
on a broomstick.....
We are flexible like that.

Kansas

Patty, you are right. I didn't handle that phone call correctly. I backtracked on the caller ID and have it narrowed down. I need more information. Last thing I want is some kid to get hurt.

Ironwood

 

I just finished a project of 100 bowls for a customer in NYC, I did not do the turning, only supplying the material. Green turning is VASTLY better/ easier for a beginner and the water in the wood acts as a lubricatiing agent. This is a GOOD place to start, and there is a ton of info out there about green turning. I helped "educate" the Amish who did the work on technique and process. They are 4" deep and 13" in diameter. They turned out very well. I had them roughed in on the bandsaw as "blanks" and then Anchorsealed fully as not to dry out.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

tyb525

On the topic of 1" wood - for some reason a few of the "shop" teacher I've talked to didn't understand the idea of making a bowl from a solid, thick piece of wood. They had only heard of laminating together (dry) 1" boards to make thicker blanks.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

jim king

I would suggest that the lady looks for a local wood turning club or a local wood turner and they will for sure help her and probably with a demonstration.

If she puts a question on the below link I am sure there must be someone near who will gladly help.  If she is far away from a club or turner she can buy a bowl turning video on line from any Rockler or Woodcraft store.

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/turning.pl

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: tyb525 on October 30, 2010, 02:17:36 PM
On the topic of 1" wood - for some reason a few of the "shop" teacher I've talked to didn't understand the idea of making a bowl from a solid, thick piece of wood. They had only heard of laminating together (dry) 1" boards to make thicker blanks.
That's right, maybe they're not used to seeing thicker wood because of cost factors, and are only familiar with gluing up whatever 4/4 they have around to get dry thicker blanks.   If this is the case probably won't do much good to give them rough  lumber, not ready to glue up. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Okrafarmer

Quote from: Ironwood on October 30, 2010, 12:34:35 PMGreen turning is VASTLY better/ easier for a beginner and the water in the wood acts as a lubricatiing agent. This is a GOOD place to start, and there is a ton of info out there about green turning.

I agree. And oak will work if it's green, but still other things would be easier. I don't like turning dry wood unless it is finishing up a project.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

low_48

Maybe they have a Ringmaster.  http://www.ringmastertool.com/PAGES/RINGMAST.HTM
It will cut angled rings from a thin board and lets you stack laminate.

Kansas

Talked with the gal who called me, plus the shop teacher. It is indeed a ringmaster. That is quite an idea. Never saw anything like it. Told them I would give them the wood if they made me a bowl. They agreed. At one board foot per bowl for 14 kids, plus one for me, I'm making out like a bandit.

Okrafarmer

My primary turning blank customer just made me a bowl. I forgot to take a picture of it, but I will as soon as I manage to. ::)  I was showing him miscellaneous turning blanks I had in the shop, in case he wanted any, and then I came across one in particular I had been saving. "This one isn't for sale," I told him, showing it to him. "Do you know what kind of wood it is?"

He looked at it, and said, "It's birch, isn't it? But what kind of birch?" (We only have one kind of native birch around here, and it's River Birch).

I told him it was yellow birch, and it grew behind my grandpa's house in Maine. The blank was 4 years old, and fairly dry. He said he would make me a bowl out of it. When he came back for more wood yesterday, he brought the bowl. I'll get a picture of it when time allows.

I had been intending to make a bowl out of it, but I haven't had time to mess with my lathe for a long time.  :'(
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

SwampDonkey

Can't really distinguish birches by wood grain. They have fairly large closed white pores (white dots) scattered uniformly across the end grain. But, yellow birch is heavier, harder and stronger than most. Black birch would be about the same. If you had a birch log with the cherry pink color, then it would likely be yellow birch.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Okrafarmer

I'm trying to get you a picture of the bowl, SD. It's a pipeline process of about 5 steps for me to get a picture on here, so let me go through it, I took the pics but they may not get added until later. All birches may look alike on the inside but I can attest yellow is the hardest to split of the four types I've tried.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Okrafarmer

There you go, Swamp Donkey.  See? See?



Well.  ;D ;D ;D I guess you can't see it very well with me just sticking it up at your post like that. Let's try a different way:



This is what is known as a live-edge bowl. Most of the ones I usually made were done differently. But this kind leaves a ridge with the bark still on it around the lip of the bowl for easy identification of the species.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

SwampDonkey

She's a bute. Betcha never seen bird's eye yellow birch. ;D

I've only seen it once. A fellow was splitting firewood and brought a slabbed piece in to the office of the marketing board with bark in tact. DOH!
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Okrafarmer

Quote from: SwampDonkey on November 04, 2010, 04:24:26 AM
She's a bute. Betcha never seen bird's eye yellow birch. ;D

I've only seen it once. A fellow was splitting firewood and brought a slabbed piece in to the office of the marketing board with bark in tact. DOH!

Put it this way-- if I ever did see it, I was blissfully ignorant and it got burned for firewood.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

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