what to charge for cutting trees

davefrommd · November 16, 2003, 06:44:02 PM

I mostly cut firewood for two families and lately I've been asked to cut possibly up to 10 trees in some friends back yard. The trees are tall pine some oak 8" to 14" diameter and very tall trees. Is there a method of figuring out how much to charge and do I need to figue out what's involved for each tree. What do I charge to cut a tree or trees into firewood size logs ready for splitting.

Their dad mentioned this job to me and has offered me $200.00 which is an insult. Some trees I cut I usually pull them with a steel cable or 2" nylon straps. I've cut enough trees down to where I would feel comfortable doing these. I just need to figure out a price that I won't be cheating myself. I am hoping someone can give me some sort of figure to go on. Thanks in advance. Dave

beenthere · November 16, 2003, 07:55:36 PM

If you have experience cutting down such trees, you know better than anyone else how long you would expect the job to take. Figure a good hourly wage with your equipment, and price the job. However----

With the hopes I don't insult you, my 'first blush', from what you said, is that you should step back and take a long look at what you are getting into. You say this job is for 'friends', and you say that you were insulted with the "$200" offer. You don't state if you have insurance coverage if something goes wrong (friends become non-friends in a hurry when something goes wrong). Bottom line, I think you should walk away from the job, at least until your 'friends' get a quote from an arborist or professional in the business of removing trees.

davefrommd · November 16, 2003, 08:50:46 PM

I don't have insurance. They told me they got an estimate for $900.00 to cut one tree down. Actually it started out as just having one tree cut. Now it's the whole back yard they want all trees cut down. Probably taking my time it would take about two days and possibly a third day to finnish up.

I think you have a good idea to just bail out of this project. From my experience I feel as though I can cut the trees with no problem. I think some friends expect you to do things for them dirt cheap. Because I think I am going to be cheated out of a fair price for services rendered I'm just going to forget this whole thing. You gave me some things to think about. Thanks for your advice. Dave

chet · November 16, 2003, 08:58:22 PM

Dave, please don't take this wrong as I'm not trying to be a smart a**. If you really knew what you where doing, you would know how long the job would take, and therefore, what a fair and honest price per hour would be.
And as Beenthere mentioned what about insurance. Not only if something gets damaged of your friends, but if you get hurt. Does your friend realize you could sue him if you got hurt.

rebocardo · November 16, 2003, 09:24:33 PM

Anytime that saw is on and running, I try to earn $25 an hour, plus, the wood. A union UPS driver earns $24.95 per hour ... he is not likely to get killed doing his job, you are.

A min. of $15 an hour putting brush or wood to the curb (I do urban stuff) and prep work. A lot of urban stuff needs prep work before you can even think about cutting a tree. If you trip over a dog leash, toys, or brush and a tree lands on you because you could not run for your life if something goes wrong ...

I charge a min. of $50 per tree to down and cut it if its pine and the owner is going to huff the one foot sections and branches to the curb AND I am removing more than one tree. This is for 80 foot trees. If they are 120+ foot pines, I forget it because there is no way you can control a bad fall without climbing up into the tree 40+ feet to attach a winch and safety lines BEFORE you start cutting. Trees that tall you really need a pro to come in and drop it by sections.

My experience cutting urban pine trees in GA is that they have vines, which means they have termites too. The trees are so rotted that you take a real chance of having the tree lean on your saw with the first cut. When you get up on a ladder to attach winch and safety lines, you better be on the non-leaning side.

It takes about two hours for me to cut a pine tree down, section it to 12 inch long pieces and to cut the branches off the top of the tree small enough for curb removal (which is free here).

Something like a oak or maple can take 8-10 hours, min., because some of them are all branches and not much trunk. I cut one small maple down that took 14 hours and forever to huff it to the curb. I ended up with a pile about five feet high and forty feet long of just small 1" and under branches and the tree was only about 50 feet tall.

What I do for trees that are positioned so that they might (worse case scenario - like every line breaks, there is a wind, and it falls 180 from the notch) fall on a neighbor's house or property is offer to cut it up once a pro comes in and drops it. Plus, everyone but the pets have to be out of their house if the tree is able to either hit their house or knock a tree into their house if worse comes to worse. There are trees on my own property I have not cut down yet because they lean too much, need more brush removed from the base area, or are too close to other houses -in case- something goes 180 degrees wrong.

As for two inch straps, totally unsuitable. Those have a working limit of 3,000 pounds, max., and will break if subjected to a good snap because most straps are meant to hold loads down, not be subjected to a winch type load where they are pulled end to end.

3/8 sch 70-80/proof chain (what I usually wrap around the trunk 17-20 feet off the ground) and min. 1/4 inch winch cable is the only thing that will hold a small tree if it falls the way it shouldn't (imo, which isnt much). This gives you a one ton working load limit on each 1/4 winch cable. If I worked on bigger trees, I would go with 3/8 cable and 1/2 inch logging chains.

pasbuild · November 16, 2003, 10:34:09 PM

I had my neighbor take down 4 maples for my at one of my job sites, it took him about 1 1/2 hours to drop & top the trees and in exchange I put a metal roof on his wood shed, cost me $178 & 2 hours, I also got two 10ft curly logs out of the deal from the home owner.

Stephen_Wiley · November 17, 2003, 12:55:40 AM

Dave, I am glad you have accepted "beenthere's" advise.

Not only should you walk away, but if they ask for a reason. You should also offer up this advise.

You would rather remain a 'living friend', than to see them carry the guilt of widowing your family due to their mis-informed desire (greed) to save a buck.

The above scenario are real life stories, I have seen repeatedly in my career. Urks me........when I hear the aftermath of a so called friend asking for money from the community to take care of the widowed family. Because the so called friend wanted to pay minimum dollars to have the departed one perform a task beyond his capabilities.

You can than offer them the option of locating a competent arborist w/ insurance to perform the job. This may equate to a finder's fee for you.

Further, it will offer both you and your friends an education. In the event that some of the trees may not be as easy to remove as you think.

I have over thirty years experience in falling trees. I still meet the simplest fall with the utmost respect.

It is never an option to "deal' for tree removal as the deal may result in your life, others, or property damage.

Of the numerous accidents I know of 'not' resulting in death. The cost has far exceeded the job remuneration, e.g.; parpalegic, quadrapelegic, loss of limbs. internal damage. property damage.

I could give you one hundred other reasons as to 'why' this is a bad idea. But I think your "well being intuition" has already acknowledged that.

woodmills1 · November 17, 2003, 02:36:39 AM

this is the story that my insurance agent told me. If a friend or a neighbor helps you cut down a tree and something goes wrong your homeowners policy will cover the damage, Unless that friend is in a wood related business. In that case you won't be covered since the helper should have their own insurance for the type of business/work they are doing. My agent made it very clear to me that without buying a policy to cover myself I would be personally liable for damages. So for that reason I don't help friends cut their yard trees. Woods and far backyard trees are a different matter.

davefrommd · November 17, 2003, 07:34:09 AM

Some really good responses here. The 2" nylon strap I was talking about is those thick wide yellow ones I think rated 30,000 lbs. My friends I have known a long time are also cheap and try to get things done for nothing. They know I cut trees yearly for firewood but I kind of get upset when they want some work done and don't want to pay a reasonable fair price. He makes $40.00 an hour. I don't cut trees for a living but just use my chainsaws several times each year. I am going to forget this job as they can find someone else to use. I really appreciate the good responses I got on this forum. It helped make up my mind. Thanks again.. Dave

Engineer · November 18, 2003, 02:55:43 PM

I was asked to do something very similar for a friend who wanted most of his backyard cleared. A good enough friend that I didn't charge him anything, but I got all of the firewood (several cords worth of hardwood) as well as five nice oak sawlogs. He did all the gruntwork hauling branches and loading my truck with the cut pieces, and all I did was drop 'em and cut 'em up.

woodmills1 · November 18, 2003, 02:59:54 PM

It really is ok to do this kind off work for friends or for wood ifin the trees won't hit anything. Another think to think about and ask is, where is the septic system. My one ton loaded is not good to drive over things like that.

Kevin · November 22, 2003, 10:50:29 AM

Dave;
A little trivia here...
I'm guessing that a two inch strap would rate working load limit somewhere between 3000 and 5000lbs. new and used in a basket fashion.
Vertical, half that.
Choked would be rated at about 60% less than the maximum rating.
So a new strap rated at 5000lbs.WLL could be reduced to 2000lbs.
Add age and shock loading the amount is greatly reduced.
It's important to know what you're working with.

bull · November 22, 2003, 02:32:49 PM

Sounds like a great friend if they think your "WORTHLESS"
ya Worth $600 buck less than that tree guy.......

I Charge A $500 per tree fee to regular customers and a whole hell of alot more to friends.... and oh when family comes a calling >:(I sub the job out !! CYA is the rule of the Game.,,,

Bro. Noble · November 22, 2003, 06:25:14 PM

I used to help out an uncle at his feed and fertilizer business some. A distant relative came in to buy fertilizer and asked if there was a special rate for family. I said there sure is , but it's a lot higher than the regular price ;D

It's amazing how many 'friends' are surprised that you would actually charge them for a few boards since you have a sawmill and they don't cost you anything >:(

Viking · November 22, 2003, 10:47:18 PM

QuoteI Charge A $500 per tree fee to regular customers and a whole hell of alot more to friends.... and oh when family comes a calling >:(I sub the job out !! CYA is the rule of the Game.,,,

what are you tlkaing about ? just dropping the tree ? thats an insane ammountof money just to cut down a single tree. the people who are hiring you must be really clued out or ? is that just the kinda prices people get payed there to cut a tre down ? i should move there and charge 50% less haha.

Stephen_Wiley · November 23, 2003, 12:31:31 PM

Quote........ thats an insane ammountof money just to cut ......

That all depends upon the contract for removal if it includes:

1. Climbing and lowering branches to avoid structural or landscape damage.

2. Removal of all brush from work site

3. Size of tree(s)

4. Time spent to deal with difficulty of removal for conflicts, e.g.,
Power lines, hardware in tree requiring removal, etc.

Now, if removal only consisted of an (under / back cut) fall and walk away. Yes, it would be an enormous price. ;D

rebocardo · November 24, 2003, 01:03:17 PM

I have turned down tree jobs worth more than $500 because it was beyond my set of skills because of the size of the tree and its position. If you crush a house or kill someone including yourself, $500 seems like a pretty good deal in retrospect.

At my old house I paid a tree company $850 to remove a huge locust tree that covered three houses, including my own. The guy came in with his equipment and his two sons and they were gone 1.5 hours later with no tree left. I did not have the aerial crane that lifted it over the houses or the chipper that chipped the whole top at once. I certainly had much cheaper offers, though I like to believe I spent my money wisely.

Kevin · November 24, 2003, 03:00:55 PM

Although a crane sounds expensive, it probably saved many man hours of labor and sped the process up by several hours.
Climbing and rigging a tree down in pieces is a lot of work not to mention the cost of ropes, gear and experience.

Frank_Pender · November 25, 2003, 01:29:30 AM

Rebocardo, you got off cheap. Out here in the Willamette Valley you would have had to pay almost double that with that sort of equipment. I have several x students that are in the tree service business. In some cases they have had to hire a special crane to remove portionds of trees from back yards or leaning over a structure. The least per hour has be $800, just for the crane.

slowzuki · November 25, 2003, 09:42:56 AM

There is a wide variety of straps available.

I have a 2" strap rated at 30 000 lbs that is used for snatching equipment out (something that should NEVER be done with a chain without special shock absorbing measures)

I also have a 2" strap called a tree protector. It is rated at around 10000 lb and is intended for self recovery winching of vehicles without girdling the tree or damaging the wire rope of the winch.

To get 10 000 lb capacity in a wire rope, a 3/8" would be required. 8000 lb would need 5/16.
Ken

QuoteDave;
A little trivia here...
I'm guessing that a two inch strap would rate working load limit somewhere between 3000 and 5000lbs. new and used in a basket fashion.
Vertical, half that.
Choked would be rated at about 60% less than the maximum rating.
So a new strap rated at 5000lbs.WLL could be reduced to 2000lbs.
Add age and shock loading the amount is greatly reduced.
It's important to know what you're working with.

Kevin · November 25, 2003, 11:09:05 AM

Ken,
30k sounds like the tensile strength and not the WLL?

slowzuki · November 27, 2003, 05:31:09 PM

Kevin, I thought about it some more and it is only rated for horizontal use not overhead lifting such as a nylon web sling. The working load factor is much different if I recall correctly! It is a 4 or 6 ply nylon weave.

The wire strengths I listed are the yeild / peak strength. A Warn 8000 and 9000 lb winches comes with 5/16" cable, this is a bit funny since at stall rating, on the bottom winding on the drum, they can both break the cable.

Just a note on rigging, any setup with nylon web in it must be carefully thought out, the nylon can store a lot of energy. This energy can pull a tree faster than expected or fire a shackle through your head! Think about where things will go if the weakest point of the rigging lets go.
Ken

SawBilly · December 04, 2003, 07:06:39 AM

I had a friend once......(side joke)..he asked me to help remove several pines that lined his house. They were 24"+ at the base and very tall, also about 5 feet away from his house and about 15 feet away from the neighbors, plus a fence between. I told him to call a tree service and have them drop them and I would haul off the logs and chip the tops.

He sold his house and moved out of state!

They were nice trees, would have made some dandy lumber, assuming no metal of course.