Stump sprouts...

[mrcaptainbob]

Why do some stumps grow sprouts after felling, but others do not? Annnnd...if it's desired to have a stump NOT grow sprouts, what can be done for that?

[ely]

cut them in the right sign of the almanac. if you believe that sort of stuff. :P

[WDH]

As a general rule, the softwoods like pine, spruce, fir, etc do not sprout.  Hardwoods generally all do.  Why some do and some don't might have to do with vigor and health of the tree before felling.

[SwampDonkey]

Mature sugar maple and yellow birch usually don't stump sucker much if at all, but red maple and beech will sucker like all get out. ;D The stool shoots off the cambium of a beech stump are the worst, they won't amount to a decent tree while red maple you can leave two or three for pulpwood or firewood stems.

Beech! Nasty wirey stuff. :D

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Its called Coppice regrowth down here only certain hardwoods doit in the rite climatic conditions  you can get upto three rotations out of a stump then the are stuffed but there is usually alot of seed regrowth in between  ;) ;D 8)

Regards Chris

[clearcut]

Coast redwood is a vigorous sprouter - one of the few conifers that do so.

To control sprouting, glyphosate (Roundup) applied to a freshly cut stump is very effective. Check the label for concentration and application rate.

[sandhills]

We also use Tordon on fresh cut stumps.

[Ron Wenrich]

Let me ask this.  Are the species that have more epicormic branching tendencies the ones that are more prone to stump sprouts?

Here's my thinking.  Some trees will produce epicormic sprouting more than others.  Its evident when you look at a stand that has been thinned too hard and excessive sunlight comes in to stimulate the epicormic buds.  We don't have much pine, but I don't recall seeing epicormic branching in those conditions.

But, we do get lots of epicormic branching in species like oak, tulip poplar, red maple and beech.  And those are the ones that yield a good amount of stump sprouts.

I always thought the stump sprouts were due to the epicormic buds.

[SwampDonkey]

Ron, yes it seems to follow to a degree. But, it has a lot to do with age and dominance in the canopy for many species. A mature sugar maple or a yellow birch left to stand by itself won't epicormic branch. But leave pole wood behind and it will. Cut pole wood or immature sugar maple and yellow birch and they will sucker.

Stump sprouts off beech and American elm are stool shoots off the cambium. The cambium calluses over and forms new buds. Had one fellow that was real sure that beech suckers off the roots. I challenged the guy and every shoot he pulled on that he thought was a sucker was a seedling. Dumb founded. :D :D :D

Young balsam fir and spruce will sprout new limbs off the trunk if you prune up the tree so light reached the trunk. I've never seen a pine (red, white, jack) sucker new limbs after pruning.



Besides the white birch in the middle of the frame, the over story is pretty much sugar maple. The beech was removed for firewood over many years. Guess what took over the understory?

BEECH!!!!!!!!!!  Just as good as a barbed wire fence. :D That's thick.

[Clark]

Let me ask this.  Are the species that have more epicormic branching tendencies the ones that are more prone to stump sprouts?

Ron, that is probably the easiest way to figure out stump sprouting that I have ever heard.

Ron, yes it seems to follow to a degree. But, it has a lot to do with age and dominance in the canopy for many species. A mature sugar maple or a yellow birch left to stand by itself won't epicormic branch. But leave pole wood behind and it will. Cut pole wood or immature sugar maple and yellow birch and they will sucker.

Young balsam fir and spruce will sprout new limbs off the trunk if you prune up the tree so light reached the trunk. I've never seen a pine (red, white, jack) sucker new limbs after pruning.

I'd agree Donk, tree health, vigor and age have lots to do with stump sprouting.  I've never seen balsam fir produce epicormic sprouts though...I'm going to have to keep my eyes open!  When it comes to pine I'm almost certain I have seen white pine produce epicormic branches.  Some of the bigger ones left behind in clear cuts always look real "fuzzy" several years later.  I've never checked up close to see if it was new branches off the bole or the lower branches going crazy with all the extra sunlight.  Again, my eyes will be peeled.

Clark

[SwampDonkey]

Lone white pine don't, you'll just see the finer upswung branches on the main limbs to be more noticeable. That makes it look fuzzy I suppose, but they were always there in the forested condition. Some of those old pine will live on and others just die back or get the rust around here. They don't leave them for wildlife or structure. That's what they call it maybe, but the ones they leave here are simply junk or not enough volume to deal with. It's just like the time they came up with leave patches for wildlife and such. They left the worst sections of the harvest block they didn't want to begin with. Called it critter patches.

[ibseeker]

What's the best thing to do with stump sprouts?
My property was logged about 3 years ago and there is a lot of sprouts coming up. I'm not sure if it's root sprouting or stump sprouting, it seems to be the stumps that most of the sprouts are coming up from. It sounds stupid as I type this but I can't go check so I'm working from memory.
I was told to cut all but the best sprout and it would be fine. Is that true?
I was also told not to worry about the yellow poplar since it would self-select the best sprout, is that true too?
There are hundreds of oak, poplar, beech, maple and cherry sprouting all over. I've cut back dozens but wonder if I'm wasting my time?

Should I be using a herbicide and killing all those stump sprouts?
If so, is hack-n-squirt with Tordon the way to do it?

One other question, there are a lot of different oaks that have multiple trunks that are probably fairly old trees. They look like stump sprouts that were never dealt with 50 or 60 years ago during that last logging. The trees are only good for firewood.
Is this what I can expect if I don't do something with all these stump sprouts?

[SwampDonkey]

Most will be pulp or firewood. We thin them out with brush saws and leave a couple of the best looking ones.

[Ron Wenrich]

When you find a clump of trees that are in a ring, they're the ones that have come up as stump sprouts.  The biggest problem is tree development.  Form is one of the things that will define the quality of your timber.  Stump sprouts quite often don't have the proper form to make a quality veneer butt.  That's a huge loss in the quality of your crop.

The other problem is that when the stump starts to rot, that gives an avenue for more rot in the sprouts.  Many of the sprouts will have rot, which puts it down in the firewood class.

I'm not up on herbicides, but you can put that on after the logging.  You can also inject into the existing sprouts to kill them, or use brush saws, or girdle them.

I think a lot has to do with when the logging is done.  Early spring and summer logging probably leads to more sprouts, along with how heavy the stand is opened up.  Fall and winter logging might not yield as many sprouts.  Any observations by others?

[SwampDonkey]

Haven't noticed a difference in seasons with sprouting. Other than if you cut in late summer and early fall you don't get much the rest of the year because of hardening off. But, next growing season they come on, full vigour.

[ibseeker]

I'm still unsure of what to do at this point. Should I be using an herbicide? If so, how?

[woodtroll]

Depends...
If your are leaving a stem, no do not herbicide the ones cut.
If you are cutting all the stems, maybe. If its a desirable tree you do not want a herbicide that travels (like tordon).
So, If your are cutting yellow poplar but leaving some the tordon will carry over. There are other herbicides that will do the same. Its called trans-location or being soil active. Also soil active herbicides can kill other sp.
By cutting a stem close to the ground the stem will develop better and usually with less sprouts.
After a clear cut, depending on species I have seen very good result from slashing. Very expensive and time consuming. It is where all stems are cut down to a 2 inch diameter.
Three years after, I would give serious thought to letting the trees fight it out till they get some size for a commercial thin.
Have a Forester in your area give you their 2 cents worth with all the local details.

[SwampDonkey]

A pre-commercial thinning when trees are sufficient height will do wonders while your waiting for a commercial thinning down the road. Waiting it out puts you years behind the curve. Hardwood forest up this way rarely burn or undergo a natural vast devastation mimiced by a clearcut. It's pretty clean in under a mature maple forest, other than seedlings. Sometimes not much of that, right down to dirt almost. About the only thing I wouldn't thin is aspen.

[Clark]

I've been waiting for an email from Penn State Extension with some literature.  My experience is that certain species respond well to sprout thinning and decay isn't an issue.  Basswood is a good example but it tends to sprout from below ground.  The attached papers indicates that not thinning because you are worried about rot could be a loss in volume. 

My recommendation is to thin the sprouts.  Use the herbicide to achieve proper spacing if there are too many per acre.

Clark

[SwampDonkey]

Thinning, as in pre-commercial, has long been a proven method of managing suckered regrowth and seedling regeneration. However most hardwood aren't going to yield a high quality log from suckers. Even if the suckers aren't thinned out, your no better off trying to managing them for sawlogs. For folks that have good regeneration on a good growing site, I would recommend pre-commercial thinning. If your waiting for a sawlog to grow in those thickets, you have a lot longer wait.