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Author Topic: 038 mag - 038 av  (Read 9333 times)

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Offline customdave

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038 mag - 038 av
« on: September 23, 2010, 12:12:38 am »
Buddy of mine has a chance to buy a 038 AV, I have the 038 Mag, he asked me what was the difference, I said I didn't know but would try to find out, so what is AV, & is there any advantage to the Av over the Mag or vice-versa ? Thanks for any info so I will know & can pass it along.....


                               Dave
Love the smell of sawdust

Offline Rocky_J

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 12:50:36 am »
The Mag had a slightly bigger bore, displacement was 4.4 cubic inches I think. Not sure on the AV. The modern equivalent (or similar size/power) would be the MS361 or 362.

Offline Ed

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 01:03:36 am »
The 038 mag has a larger displacment (72cc) than the "plain" 038 (61cc). The mag has a better flowing exhaust also.
If the price was right, I would grab an 038 in a second, no matter if it was a mag or not. The 038 series was one of Stihls better saws, its still availabe in other countries as the ms381.

Ed

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 06:12:36 am »
The 028-038-042 and 048 are the "old school " Stihls .They all used an oiling system that used nylon gears driven from the clutch drum rather than center drive pumps used on todays models .

Regarding the 038's ,three sizes ,038,038 super and the Mag which could be under several names .Could be 038 AV Mag,just plain Mag or Mag II .This model is most likely one of the most robustly built  saws that Stihl ever built .Some have seen service for tree service companies and have stood the test of time ,often exceeding twenty years .

While many prefer the 044 model which superceded the older 038 this model still has a following .In good usable condition an 038 of any model number  can still fetch a fairly good price .They respond to modifications well also .I have 3 ,one AV and two mags .

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 10:09:47 am »
The Mag had a slightly bigger bore, displacement was 4.4 cubic inches I think. Not sure on the AV. The modern equivalent (or similar size/power) would be the MS361 or 362.
AV just means anti vibration. Stihl introduced AV in 1966 and 14-20 yrs later it was still a big deal to advertise.

Willard.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 08:33:38 pm »
All true but for reference sake the term"AV' regarding the 038 model as a rule means the smaller version with the 48 mm bore. Not to be confused with the 50 mm super or the 52 mm Mag .

Offline Rocky_J

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2010, 08:57:30 pm »
Thanks Al. I knew it was something like that but didn't know the exact numbers. :)

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2010, 11:00:42 am »

I agree those Stihl numbers are confusing aren't they?
I was in the shed this morning and saw my 038 [61cc] just had 038AV on the tag. My 038 Super and 038 Magnum I couldn't make out the tag numbers because their winter kit airfilter rubber flaps had wore them away.
My 064 says 064 AV Electonic Quickstop , my 090 says 090AV. But my 1989 044 just says 044. I believe my 1986 064 was about the last year Stihl used "AV".
21 years ago me and then Stihl Canada president Fred Whtye[ now Stihl USA president] and our other branch managers were having supper with Hans Peter Stihl. Myself sitting right next to Hans Peter I had every opportunity to ask him lots of questions. But the one question I reget today that I never asked him was.......
" What does 024, 034, 038, 044 etc. model numbers  mean?"

Willard.

 

Offline Rocky_J

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2010, 02:25:25 pm »
Willard, those numbers were all about the general engine displacement in cubic inches. Not all exactly, but all were generally close.
044 was 4.4 cubic inches, etc.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2010, 07:10:04 pm »
I think it did start out that way meaning model number was close to displacement in cubic inches .It got a little skewed somewhere along the line though .

Mac kind of followed that same thing as well as Husqvarna .Mac--sp80,sp 105 sp 125 etc .Husky 181,272,395 3120 .cc's rather than cubic inches.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2010, 09:25:42 pm »
Between all the Stihl "0 series" numbers starting around 1963 there is roughly 79 different models between 07 and 090G [including all the Supers, magnums etc.]
The only model that came close in model number equaling cubic inchs was the 034 at 3.45 cu. in. All the rest are way out. The 044 for example is 4.3 cu. in.
I still wish I asked Hans Peter that question what they were up to.
I think with all the model upgrades over the years they just tried to make the numbers fit with relation to displacement.

Willard :D

Offline customdave

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2010, 11:13:49 pm »
Thanks guys!, very interesting info, much appreicated....


                                               Dave  8)
Love the smell of sawdust

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2010, 07:51:09 am »
More specifics on the design for those interested .The 60 cc AV used an offset combustion chamber,the mag was center .The AV had a dimpled intake the mag was smooth .The AV used I think a Walbro carb,the Mag used a Bing .The AV had a hemi domed piston ,the mag was a flat top .

The cranks and rods will interchange between all three models .The cases and cylinders will not unless modifications are used .

Regarding the super, I've never worked on one and have only ever seen 2 or 3 in my lifetime .That said I know little about them .

Now I do know this as fact,you can soup an AV up to the point that it will out run a stock mag .You can soup a mag to the point it will outcut a stock  066 over the blocks on small stuff which means little to anybody except us eccentric gearheads . :D

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2010, 09:29:25 am »
Al I have a 038 Super with a Super 2 cylinder/ piston on it. Madsens in Centralia supplied the cylinder/piston along with porting mods around 1983.
The 67cc Super 2 was the bridge between the Super and 72cc Mag at the time around 1983-84. I can't remember the spec differences.
I never modified my 038 Mag, I know guys who did and like you say they were real stong.
I would love to buy a brand new MS380 next time I go over seas. But that will be a long time down the road. I wonder if I can buy one in Mexico, may be going there next winter.
Willard.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2010, 04:42:22 pm »
Evidently the 380 will not pass EPA requirements or something .I have no doubt they could sell a much of them were they still available state side . Of they could on a 440 too for that matter .

Offline boobap

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2010, 09:19:38 pm »
quick question...what would you all pay for a good running - decent looking 038 (any variant)?

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2010, 04:08:51 pm »
Quick answer then,depends on who is buying it .I've seen them fetch 350 and more on flea bay .

I'm a notorious tightwad myself though and don't pay much for any saw . :D

Offline Mad Professor

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2010, 08:23:51 pm »
The Mag had a slightly bigger bore, displacement was 4.4 cubic inches I think. Not sure on the AV. The modern equivalent (or similar size/power) would be the MS361 or 362.


Those 60cc saws won't come close to a 72cc 038 Mag in big wood.  And as Al has stated a modified Mag is a hell of a saw. Fix the squish, open up the muffler and a woods port.

If you are creative you can convert a 038AV or 038 super to a Mag with a Mag cylinder and a little grinding with a dremel on the cylinder.  The super with the plastic fuel tank/handle is a better starting point than the crack prone magnesium 038AV tank assy



Offline Al_Smith

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Re: 038 mag - 038 av
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2010, 05:40:54 am »


  The super with the plastic fuel tank/handle is a better starting point than the crack prone magnesium 038AV tank assy



Because of that problem I landed a fairly low hour 038 AV from a dealer no less ,with a cracked handle for 45 bucks . I did a half fast fix,used it for two years then found a handle on flea bay for 25 bucks .Maybe another year past then I modded it .

The metal handles don't fetch too much but they certainly are proud of the plastic ones .From a dealer  they are around 200 bucks or about 2/3 of what a used saw would fetch .It would be cheaper to find a donor  saw with a blown top end  .

On that if a person changed an AV handle out with a plastic one from a Mag ,get the wood screw type fasteners instead of trying to use the torx head cap screws used on the av .The cap screws absolutely will not hold in the plastic .